Rumor: Dater: Penguins Interested in Soderberg as a Fallback Option

Empoleon8771

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Let's start with Gustavsson + cap dump. With retention on Soderberg, what are the parameters of a trade like that? If it's not feasible maybe there is nothing there.

If the Penguins didn't have any other options, I'd probably do Gustavsson and Hunwick for Soderberg at $3 million. There isn't one big issue with that idea, it's just like 2 or 3 small issues that make me hesitate.
 
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a mangy Meowth

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If the Penguins didn't have any other options, I'd probably do Gustavsson and Hunwick for Soderberg at $3 million. There isn't one big issue with that idea, it's just like 2 or 3 small issues that make me hesitate.
Don't worry, it makes me hesitate too, which is why it's probably fair. Avs really have relied heavily on Soda this season
 
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WheresRamziAbid

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Oh you are that guy, I assumed that after uncle eddie made such a fool of you, you wouldn't come right back with copies of your old posts. Nice to see that you're still here for folks to laugh at :thumbu:

Fool of me?

Thats fun, tell me in you expert opinion what makes Soderberg better?

Go ahead
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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If the Penguins didn't have any other options, I'd probably do Gustavsson and Hunwick for Soderberg at $3 million. There isn't one big issue with that idea, it's just like 2 or 3 small issues that make me hesitate.

Colorado would not touch it, so you don't have to worry about it.
 

Riptide

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Given our goaltending situation, I would expect one of Jarry or Gustavsson to be part of the asking price. Overall value would probably heavily depend on the amount of retention needed and the contracts coming our way...
Soda at 4.75M is not all that valuable I think.
Soda at 3.5M could probably get us something really nice...

Jarry due to what he's currently doing for the NHL team is a complete non-starter.

Sheary, Hunwick, Gustavsson, 2nd
Sodo @25% retention (so a 3.56m cap hit), Comeau (some mild retention if needed)

I'd be willing to add a little to that, potentially even including a 1st (although I'd want a 2nd back, so I'm not sure where that would balance out). However Sprong and Jarry would be off the table. Jarry because he's already in the NHL and is our only real backup option for the POs, and Sprong as we would need him to replace Sheary and for his contributions in the very near future with a great cap hit.


Sheary doesn't have to be in there (in which case, drop him and Comeau), but PIT can only take back about 1m more then they send out at the high end - and that still doesn't leave much (if any) space for injuries between now and the POs. But if COL is willing to retain some (I think 20-30% would be the range needed), and then depending on what they wanted in return, I think PIT would be interested and that there could be a deal to be made. Given what the rumored price is for Brassard, I'd be looking at Sodo all day long - or even others (Pleks, etc).
 

cgf

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Fool of me?

Thats fun, tell me in you expert opinion what makes Soderberg better?

Go ahead

I'm good thanks; but you should definitely just keep copy n pasting your old posts with absolutely no self-awareness

...I mean proving that there's no reason to think that Soderberg is better, yeah that's totally what you are accomplishing!...
 

Empoleon8771

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Colorado would not touch it, so you don't have to worry about it.

Are you expecting much more for Soderberg at this point? Gustavsson is a very good goalie prospect. Soderberg is a 32 year old 3C who has a pretty big contract. Sure, retaining makes that better, but it's still not exactly a great contract.

Don't worry, it makes me hesitate too, which is why it's probably fair. Avs really have relied heavily on Soda this season

My issues are:

1. Gustavsson looks like a really high potential goalie, so I'm hesitant to give him up this early. He looks extremely promising, and he's a guy who would slide in and replace Jarry once Jarry gets traded in 2020. However, the Penguins don't need him though as long as they have Murray, they flat out do not need him.
2. Soderberg is 32 already and looks like he took a pretty clear step back from where he was 2 years ago and he has 2 years left on his deal. Is he going to just stay at this level or possibly get even worse? However, if he's making $3 million, that's not really that big of a problem. At full salary it is, but not with that much retention. Plus he could certainly bounce back when he's playing with Kessel.

None of those issues are game breakers, but they're things that make me pause. None of those are big issues, it's not comically lopsided in value or Soderberg doesn't suck or anything like that. It's just 2 smaller issues that make me pause.
 
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WheresRamziAbid

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I'm good thanks; but you should definitely just keep copy n pasting your old posts with absolutely no self-awareness

...I mean proving that there's no reason to think that Soderberg is better, yeah that's totally what you are accomplishing!...

Good job, thats what i thought. Showing everythin Sheahan is better at is really hurting my argument. Again good job chief.
 

Goulet17

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I just don't understand some these proposals given how valuable Soderberg has been to the Avs this year. It kind of defies logic, because it seems based on a premise that Colorado is making a trade that certainly does not help them in the short term and has questionable long term value.
 

cgf

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Don't worry, it makes me hesitate too, which is why it's probably fair. Avs really have relied heavily on Soda this season

I'm with you and would have zero qualms about keeping Soda through the end of his contract, but if Joe is looking into moving Soda and Gus is as good as advertised, then it starts to make sense for us.
 
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Riptide

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i just gagged. let him stay in Colorado.

Why? He's putting up Sheahan numbers (36pt pace) with even worse zone starts then Sheahan (30% vs 33%) and with Comeau and Nieto as his wingers. That in itself should be pretty impressive. This was a guy that had 3 ~50pt seasons before he and damn near everyone COL had a brutal year. It's just all about at what cap hit (aka retention) and at what cost. Somewhere in there, there's a very good deal to be had.

I said this very thing this summer before he and the rest of the team came out much improved. But if COL is potentially serious about moving him, he would likely be a much better 'value' move (bang for buck or whatever you want to call it) then going balls out for Brassard. And importantly, Sodo PKs... something Brassard doesn't do. Which means no Rowney in the lineup (even as #4w to PK), and we could really roll 4 lines.
 

66-30-33

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Why? He's putting up Sheahan numbers (36pt pace) with even worse zone starts then Sheahan (30% vs 33%) and with Comeau and Nieto as his wingers. That in itself should be pretty impressive. This was a guy that had 3 ~50pt seasons before he and damn near everyone COL had a brutal year. It's just all about at what cap hit (aka retention) and at what cost. Somewhere in there, there's a very good deal to be had.

I said this very thing this summer before he and the rest of the team came out much improved. But if COL is potentially serious about moving him, he would likely be a much better 'value' move (bang for buck or whatever you want to call it) then going balls out for Brassard. And importantly, Sodo PKs... something Brassard doesn't do. Which means no Rowney in the lineup (even as #4w to PK), and we could really roll 4 lines.
Yes, we can't wait for Brassard anymore or we may end up with no improvements. Soda fits what we are looking for in a 3C and is good for 40-50 points a season, waaaay better then Bonino does in a regular season.
 
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Riptide

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24 points in 55 games. We’ll keep Sprong.

Not saying Soda is bad, just not trading a guy like Sprong for him. And just because he’s on a horrible contract and you retain 50% doesn’t make him any better of a player

Sodo's issues are not his actual play though... just his contract. The guy is a very good 3C - just a poor 2C. COL overpaid as a UFA, and his current contract is the result of that. But yes, you start retaining on him, and he goes from a meh option at 100% to a great option at 50%. It's just about the cost to acquire and how much retention is available from COL's end and how much PIT needs on their end.

But Sodo himself cap hit aside? He would be a great fit for our needs.
 

M C D A V I D

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I just don't understand some these proposals given how valuable Soderberg has been to the Avs this year. It kind of defies logic, because it seems based on a premise that Colorado is making a trade that certainly does not help them in the short term and has questionable long term value.

All trades are just suppose to help the Pens in the short and long term, didn't you know?
 

Riptide

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Lol no. Soderberg easily takes 3C over Sheahan.

Agreed... and that's as one of Sheahan's biggest fans on the Pens side. Sodo is doing the same that RS has (~36pt pace) with worse linemates and worse zone starts (something I didn't really think was possible). I don't think Sodo is as good defensively and he's not as good in the circle, but he's a good step up offensively.
 

Goulet17

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Are you expecting much more for Soderberg at this point? Gustavsson is a very good goalie prospect. Soderberg is a 32 year old 3C who has a pretty big contract. Sure, retaining makes that better, but it's still not exactly a great contract.



My issues are:

1. Gustavsson looks like a really high potential goalie, so I'm hesitant to give him up this early. He looks extremely promising, and he's a guy who would slide in and replace Jarry once Jarry gets traded in 2020. However, the Penguins don't need him though as long as they have Murray, they flat out do not need him.
2. Soderberg is 32 already and looks like he took a pretty clear step back from where he was 2 years ago and he has 2 years left on his deal. Is he going to just stay at this level or possibly get even worse? However, if he's making $3 million, that's not really that big of a problem. At full salary it is, but not with that much retention. Plus he could certainly bounce back when he's playing with Kessel.

None of those issues are game breakers, but they're things that make me pause. None of those are big issues, it's not comically lopsided in value or Soderberg doesn't suck or anything like that. It's just 2 smaller issues that make me pause.

I am not expecting the Avs to trade Soderberg period. They can't replace what he has brought to their lineup all season and his contract is irrelevant for the Avs. His cap hit poses no issue for the Avs and won't in the future.
 

Goulet17

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All trades are just suppose to help the Pens in the short and long term, didn't you know?

Apparently. Given how Soderberg has played, it seems like the Avs would need some incentive to remove him from their lineup, which I don't see in this thread.
 

cgf

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Are you expecting much more for Soderberg at this point? Gustavsson is a very good goalie prospect. Soderberg is a 32 year old 3C who has a pretty big contract. Sure, retaining makes that better, but it's still not exactly a great contract.

There's a lot of us who'd just prefer to keep Soda around to do the heavy lifting for us while all of our kids get broken in. He'd be your 3C but he's been our 2C and has really put in a herculean effort with the responsibilities he's been given this season. He's a highend middle-6 center who's been a tremendously productive PP player, become an excellent PKer, a dude who can tackle heavy defensive responsibilities with skilless grinders, and step up on the 2nd line with skilled players & produce when needed. Having him behind MacK makes it a lot easier for Bednar to play as many kids as he has been...and will continue to have to.

PS if the avs retained 2M a year on his contract it absolutely would become a great contract.
My issues are:

1. Gustavsson looks like a really high potential goalie, so I'm hesitant to give him up this early. He looks extremely promising, and he's a guy who would slide in and replace Jarry once Jarry gets traded in 2020. However, the Penguins don't need him though as long as they have Murray, they flat out do not need him.
2. Soderberg is 32 already and looks like he took a pretty clear step back from where he was 2 years ago and he has 2 years left on his deal. Is he going to just stay at this level or possibly get even worse? However, if he's making $3 million, that's not really that big of a problem. At full salary it is, but not with that much retention. Plus he could certainly bounce back when he's playing with Kessel.

None of those issues are game breakers, but they're things that make me pause. None of those are big issues, it's not comically lopsided in value or Soderberg doesn't suck or anything like that. It's just 2 smaller issues that make me pause.

I get these reservations and can't comment too much as I'm not a pens fan. But as an Avs fan in favor of just keeping him unless we can get back a young goalie with real potential, I have no concerns about Soda slowing down before his contract expires. He has a lot less mileage on his body than most NHLers his age and he looks as good as he ever has; so I'm willing to give him the same blanket pardon for last season that a lot of avs players need to explain wtf happened
 
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Riptide

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I've been saying Soderberg made sense in Pittsburgh all year but recently I just think Sheahan has stepped up enough that it's completely unnecessary. If Pittsburgh is trading for a 3C he should be a major upgrade on Sheahan.

Same here. But everyone on PITs board freaked out over his season last year and "he's old". The cap hit was less of an issue due to everyone knowing that there'd be retention happening. But even still there's some on HF expressing concern over the term (as if he's going to fall off a cliff at 33/34).

Pittsburgh NEEDS center depth. Ideally someone a little better than Sheahan, but even someone a little worse then him solidifies all of their NEEDs. Fans (and apparently management - although we'll see how much) want Brassard because of his offensive game. But we do not NEED someone like him. Someone like Sodo checks off a lot of boxes for PIT. Decent defensively, PKs, good offensively. Odds are that with Kessel on his wing, that that 3rd line would be a very good line offensively - likely much better then what we've seen with Sheahan, simply because Sodo is a better player offensively (and a worse one defensively then RS). And if Kessel doesn't work, then there's always the option of using Sheahan as 3C and Sodo as 4C. Or you start mixing up the wingers... as we have a lot of different options we could use depending on who goes where.

Basically, Sodo gives PIT the center depth that everyone wants. It also checks off all their needs except one - that he's not great in the circle. But if that's the biggest draw back, I think they'll survive.

Looking at the Avalanche, if there's a trade to be had there I think the Penguins should bring back Blake Comeau. One of the best PK'ers in the league. Can play anywhere up and down the lineup. Physical, hard working, damn good skater. Constantly praised for his locker room attitude and leadership. UFA at season's end. He seems like a prototypical "playoff" player.

Pittsburgh only needs a winger if we move one. Right now we're really really full, with a pair of prospects (who are playing well) battling it out for that final spot when healthy. However if we move someone (cough Sheary cough) for cap reasons, then Comeau (if it worked cap wise), would be a great depth add.
 

cgf

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Apparently. Given how Soderberg has played, it seems like the Avs would need some incentive to remove him from their lineup, which I don't see in this thread.

If the kid is as good as advertised, a potential starting goalie would seem like a decent incentive for a team whose future in net is looking very shaky :dunno:

and in case you haven't noticed the talent deficit on our AHL team, any extra top 100 picks don't hurt.
Plekanec would be the better option in my opinion mainly due to the fact hes a rental and doesn't have term

He's also a lot worse at this point, and depending on how much the avs retained, soderberg having term should be a positive.
 

Riptide

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Well he's certainly not better than Crosby or Malkin and Sheahan is doing everything he is, in an equally defensive role, with better possession numbers to boot plus hes half the cost and 6 years younger.

I mean...

And RS is getting (marginally) better zone starts... and significantly better wingers (Comeau and Nieto vs Guentzel and Kessel). Sodo won't be an upgrade defensively or in the circle - RS will still own him there. But Sodo isn't bad defensively, he PKs and he would be an upgrade offensively - he's more creative as a player then RS is. We've seen that in the past with his 3 straight ~50pt seasons before last year's disaster.

It wouldn't be a huge difference, but there would be one. And guess what... if it turns out that RS is the better fit or whatever... if RS/Sodo are your 3/4Cs... you have very very good center depth. It's all just a matter of what Sodo's cap hit is. 3-3.5m, and it's very interesting. Lower, and it's gold. Higher, and it becomes less interesting. But there's a window there to make that work... and depending on the cost, I'd almost certainly do that long before Brassard.
 
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