OT: Daryl Katz spends $120 Million on new LA pad

[I am the Liquor]

Your weak insults make me laugh , if you think they matter to me try again I raised 3 kids that hit the age of 12. And keep extorting that welfare

Extortion is using threats to get money. That is what Katz did. He threatened to move the team to Seattle.

How exactly does one extort welfare?

You make little/no sense. Congrats on the family though. What happened when they turned 13? Do you have triplets that are currently 12? More confusion.....

 

[VainGretzky]

Extortion is using threats to get money. That is what Katz did. He threatened to move the team to Seattle.

How exactly does one extort welfare?

You make little/no sense. Congrats on the family though. What happened when they turned 13? Do you have triplets that are currently 12? More confusion.....

 

[SK13]

Extortion is using threats to get money. That is what Katz did. He threatened to move the team to Seattle.

Stop talking about extortion. You don't know what extortion is.

Saying if we can't make a deal, I'll move my business elsewhere is in no way extortion. It's f***ing laughable that you're trying to teach people lessons about capitalism in this thread and are making that analogy.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Stop talking about extortion. You don't know what extortion is.

Saying if we can't make a deal, I'll move my business elsewhere is in no way extortion. It's ****ing laughable that you're trying to teach people lessons about capitalism in this thread and are making that analogy.

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

He got the city to build his arena in part by threatening to move the team. That's a fact, which was conveniently omitted by some. You may not like it, but so what? Deal with it.

 

[VainGretzky]

Criminal Code

 

[Drivesaitl]

The entire mindset you're describing is the reason Edmonton fell into such disrepair in the first place. It's why we're spending so much now to build LRTs when it should have been done for a fraction of the cost - even accounting for inflation, 20+ years ago. It's why Edmonton was allowed to sprawl into a bunch of suburban neighborhoods built around shopping malls while companies like Shaw fled Edmonton for Calgary decades ago.

Some ignorant people were only interested in rabble rousing about how their tax dollars "shouldn't be going to help a billionaire dammit!" than understanding the deal or how it could be beneficial to Edmonton. They didn't realize that their tax dollars weren't quite going to fund it at all, not like they went to fund the RAM or the ugly ass Art Gallery, and that the money was coming from a loan on a provincial fund that pays itself back in it's first 15 years. They don't quite understand that this deal was a lot different than most other publicly funded deals because the Arena came with partnership that would redevelop that entire district around it.

They only care that a (homegrown) billionaire will make money off it.

At the risk of going on an off topic rabbit trail that you created your narrative is far from accurate. The curse of our LRT was going with a DT subway system which was prohibitively expensive to build and maintain instead of going with a surface rail system like Calgary. I was here throughout this. The ambition of the time was for Edmonton to have a subway like NY, London, Paris and one that was modeled after BART.

Our LRT was a clear case of punching above our weight interms of affordability and the decision to go underground crippled the system with costs for a long time and including the excessive cost of having to extend south and an underground portion spanning either side of the river through banks that are unstable and not ideal for this sort of thing and that required incredible expenses to stabilize and build the tunnels through the region. Indeed trying to extend the underground network past Corona, Grandin stopped the system expansion dead in its tracks.

Its clear to anybody thinking about this openly that Calgary had the better vision, by not going "world class" system. So that they have a system far better, and farther reaching than we do.

Finally, people like myself WANTED a more extensive and reaching LRT system. Not the decades of delays trying to get this anywhere. For some perspective I live in an area that was first promised LRT in the 70's and complete with a line and proposed stations and locations. Which took 40 years, half a lifetime, to arrive. Fortunately its a P3 build or I would still wonder about it arriving and working..

 

[Jumptheshark]

Extortion is using threats to get money. That is what Katz did. He threatened to move the team to Seattle.

How exactly does one extort welfare?

You make little/no sense. Congrats on the family though. What happened when they turned 13? Do you have triplets that are currently 12? More confusion.....

he talked to Seattle about the proposal for a new arena.

 

[oilers'72]

$250M in 2007 dollars wouldn't have been worth the money. And the taxpayers still would've paid for it.

Refurbishing Rexall Place to cost $250M

 

[Jumptheshark]

with what Calgary is about to do(my prediction) will be threatening a city. With Seattle renovating the KEY, Houston sniffing around and Quebec still there--I think this off season we will see Calgary give the city an ultimatum

 

[SK13]

At the risk of going on an off topic rabbit trail that you created your narrative is far from accurate. The curse of our LRT was going with a DT subway system which was prohibitively expensive to build and maintain instead of going with a surface rail system like Calgary. I was here throughout this. The ambition of the time was for Edmonton to have a subway like NY, London, Paris and one that was modeled after BART.

Our LRT was a clear case of punching above our weight interms of affordability and the decision to go underground crippled the system with costs for a long time and including the excessive cost of having to extend south and an underground portion spanning either side of the river through banks that are unstable and not ideal for this sort of thing and that required incredible expenses to stabilize and build the tunnels through the region. Indeed trying to extend the underground network past Corona, Grandin stopped the system expansion dead in its tracks.

Its clear to anybody thinking about this openly that Calgary had the better vision, by not going "world class" system. So that they have a system far better, and farther reaching than we do.

Finally, people like myself WANTED a more extensive and reaching LRT system. Not the decades of delays trying to get this anywhere. For some perspective I live in an area that was first promised LRT in the 70's and complete with a line and proposed stations and locations. Which took 40 years, half a lifetime, to arrive. Fortunately its a P3 build or I would still wonder about it arriving and working..

I'm searching in vain for the place where my post was "far from accurate".

LRT extensions were proposed more than 2 decades ago for a fraction of the cost that we're spending now. I have no doubt that the decision to go for underground rail was a hindrance or that there were other reasons for the LRT expansion to not go through until this decade.

Even if I was being reductive about the reasons for our lack-luster LRT, that's really besides the greater point that this town has been run by purse-clutching misers who have allowed the city to become an international laughing stock by employing the same kind of logic that's being applied to Rogers in this thread.

"The city benefits, but who cares, a rich guy also benefits. Better we do nothing and celebrate the Staples that opened on that lot."

 

[SaltNPeca]

Its clear to anybody thinking about this openly that Calgary had the better vision, by not going "world class" system. So that they have a system far better, and farther reaching than we do.

Extreme OT, but fascinating discussion. I find this use of "world class" and comparisons to Calgary, NYC, and Paris very interesting.

If you want to be "world class" I'd say just be yourself. Be the unique, innovative, clever, Edmontonians you are. You'll never have the population of the growing Asian megacities, you'll never have the commerce of NYC, or the culture of just about any major European center. What do you have then?

> You have diversity, peace, and security. You look after each other. You're friendly. You have how many amazing outdoor skating venues and indoor ice rinks (a real homeland of hockey)? Your backyard is the Canadian wilderness... the lakes, the Rockies, the prairies. You've got all the indigenous nations, the old and new immigrants, the French Albertans.
> Build the transportation network you need. Maybe: Light rail to your big mall, your airport, your Univeristy, and your city center / arena.
> Come up with some innovations on land use and ways to minimize infrastructure expenditures (I mean it's crazy how massive your city is with roads just because each person needs a free standing house on a cul-de-sac). Integrate better with nature in your backyard instead of pushing it aside as you grow.
> Grow and develop in your own way. Lean from others, but don't compare and copy. We all have our own problems and there is no ideal city plan, especially not one that applies to your location, climate, and circumstances.​

 

[Drivesaitl]

Extreme OT, but fascinating discussion. I find this use of "world class" and comparisons to Calgary, NYC, and Paris very interesting.

If you want to be "world class" I'd say just be yourself. Be the unique, innovative, clever, Edmontonians you are. You'll never have the population of the growing Asian megacities, you'll never have the commerce of NYC, or the culture of just about any major European center. What do you have then?

> You have diversity, peace, and security. You look after each other. You're friendly. You have how many amazing outdoor skating venues and indoor ice rinks (a real homeland of hockey)? Your backyard is the Canadian wilderness... the lakes, the Rockies, the prairies. You've got all the indigenous nations, the old and new immigrants, the French Albertans.
> Build the transportation network you need. Maybe: Light rail to your big mall, your airport, your Univeristy, and your city center / arena.
> Come up with some innovations on land use and ways to minimize infrastructure expenditures (I mean it's crazy how massive your city is with roads just because each person needs a free standing house on a cul-de-sac). Integrate better with nature in your backyard instead of pushing it aside as you grow.
> Grow and develop in your own way. Lean from others, but don't compare and copy. We all have our own problems and there is no ideal city plan, especially not one that applies to your location, climate, and circumstances.​

Edmonton is an industrial City in an industrial heartland what with Nisku, Strathcona Refinery area and Fort Saskatchewan just a hop away. In this sense "sprawl" makes more sense here than it does in most places as Edmonton is not at all a "Centric" city. Most of the best jobs are in outlying regions and so living near the ringroad or freeways makes more sense than living Central. Further, Edmonton is an amalgam of multiple Cities, Towns. For instance few people realize Edmonton and Strathcona were not joined at one time, whey were competing entities and so with both having their own infrastructure, commerce area etc. Add that Jasper Place, Sherwook Park, St Albert, Leduc (oddly enough where our international airport is) all have their own DT's or commerce areas as well. Add that due to our northern latitude this was pretty much a birthing place for the concept of suburban Malls (shopping indoors with free parking was a big selling point here)

Edmonton is a great place and I love it. But it is what it is. Where I agree with you, and its always been my opinion, Edmonton should be what it is. In addition its a Capital City, A University and Technical school hub, and has a diverse and wonderful arts community. These to me are some of Edmonton's strengths. Also being a Festival City and with a wonderful natural urban river valley and tributary trails parkland. Not to mention Alberta being one of the best outdoor lover locations on Earth.

Ironically though, 80% of young adults take their vacations out of province and country rather than travelling more within. Its the strangest thing. Young people travel around the world and the world travels here..

Canada is the best place to visit and most people want to live here.

I guess you are a Draisaitl fan being from Koln. My family immigrated from the region. I still haven't seen Koln, but one day.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You appear to be missing the point. That's not what "the majority of residents," to use your words, were saying. They complained that Katz bent the city over. I know Oilers fans who wanted a downtown arena but didn't support the taxpayer-supported cost.

and what are their feelings now?

 

[SaltNPeca]

Edmonton is an industrial City in an industrial heartland what with Nisku, Strathcona Refinery area and Fort Saskatchewan just a hop away. In this sense "sprawl" makes more sense here than it does in most places as Edmonton is not at all a "Centric" city. Most of the best jobs are in outlying regions and so living near the ringroad or freeways makes more sense than living Central. Further, Edmonton is an amalgam of multiple Cities, Towns. For instance few people realize Edmonton and Strathcona were not joined at one time, whey were competing entities and so with both having their own infrastructure, commerce area etc. Add that Jasper Place, Sherwook Park, St Albert, Leduc (oddly enough where our international airport is) all have their own DT's or commerce areas as well. Add that due to our northern latitude this was pretty much a birthing place for the concept of suburban Malls (shopping indoors with free parking was a big selling point here)

Edmonton is a great place and I love it. But it is what it is. Where I agree with you, and its always been my opinion, Edmonton should be what it is. In addition its a Capital City, A University and Technical school hub, and has a diverse and wonderful arts community. These to me are some of Edmonton's strengths. Also being a Festival City and with a wonderful natural urban river valley and tributary trails parkland. Not to mention Alberta being one of the best outdoor lover locations on Earth.

Ironically though, 80% of young adults take their vacations out of province and country rather than travelling more within. Its the strangest thing. Young people travel around the world and the world travels here..

Canada is the best place to visit and most people want to live here.

I guess you are a Draisaitl fan being from Koln. My family immigrated from the region. I still haven't seen Koln, but one day.

Many cities (if not all since the industrial revolutions and steam engine) develop exactly as you've described. It's only that Edmonton is young, developing quickly in a modern era, and before your eyes. I mean... NYC started unifying/amalgamating around 1820's into the late 1800's.

I think you need a better strategy than that suburban sprawl. I always liked that Edmonton-Calgary high speed train idea to connect the city centers, airports, and perhaps Red Deer.

A lot of Germans think Canada is a natural wonderland and can't imagine why any Canadian would live in Europe. I know a guy fascinated by the Gold Rush who visits Yukon regularly. Others kind of fascinated by the Canadian tuxedo, road trippin', lumberjack stuff. The average wouldn't know much, if anything just a tidbit like something about Trudeau or "I have a cousin in Vancouver".

Yep, Drai is a big deal. His father is coaching the DEL team here as of last month. Saw Drai at the IIHF WC here. Nonetheless anyone with hockey sense knows about McDavid, Gretzky, and hence the glorious Oilers anyways.

 

[MoneyGuy]

and what are their feelings now?

Nothing's changed. The city still gave in to a millionaire who held their feet to the coals. None of them disagreed that the downtown would benefit, just that the city gave up more than it should have. I'm saying this as someone who is friends with the person who negotiated this deal with the Oilers.

 

[CycloneSweep]

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

He got the city to build his arena in part by threatening to move the team. That's a fact, which was conveniently omitted by some. You may not like it, but so what? Deal with it.

So anytime I call Telus and they f*** me around and I go "I'll take my business elsewhere" I am in fact extorting them and comitting a felony? Well damn.

Saying you will take your business somewhere else, which is what Katz did is not extortion. It's scummy but it's not extortion.

If he said "I will make sure you never get another NHL team ever again" that's extortion.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm searching in vain for the place where my post was "far from accurate".

LRT extensions were proposed more than 2 decades ago for a fraction of the cost that we're spending now. I have no doubt that the decision to go for underground rail was a hindrance or that there were other reasons for the LRT expansion to not go through until this decade.

Even if I was being reductive about the reasons for our lack-luster LRT, that's really besides the greater point that this town has been run by purse-clutching misers who have allowed the city to become an international laughing stock by employing the same kind of logic that's being applied to Rogers in this thread.

"The city benefits, but who cares, a rich guy also benefits. Better we do nothing and celebrate the Staples that opened on that lot."

NIMBYS have halted a lot of progress in the city for decades.

 

[MoneyGuy]

So anytime I call Telus and they **** me around and I go "I'll take my business elsewhere" I am in fact extorting them and comitting a felony? Well damn.

Saying you will take your business somewhere else, which is what Katz did is not extortion. It's scummy but it's not extortion.

If he said "I will make sure you never get another NHL team ever again" that's extortion.

You're an f'n criminal.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You're an f'n criminal.

LOCK ME UP

 

[Stoneman89]

This thread has got really off track. Supposed to be about a guy buying a big house, and morphed into extortion and criminals. Some of you are pretty funny.

 

[bucks_oil]

Extortion... lol... it's called Competitive Tension and he created it by compelling the officials to realize that having the Oilers was good for them and good for the city. Before meeting with Seattle, there was no negotiation to be had because he was perceived to have no option.

In fact he is the business owner... he had options. All he needed to do was demonstrate that there was materiality to his options. Once he did this, the negotiation proceeded as it always should have done... with both sides recognizing the value brought by the other side... and then meeting in the middle ground.

 

[bucks_oil]

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

He got the city to build his arena in part by threatening to move the team. That's a fact, which was conveniently omitted by some. You may not like it, but so what? Deal with it.

It's HIS team. He owns it.

Extortion happens when what should be a fair exchange is made unfair by the threat of harm (usually physical). You pay money to avoid a beat-down. That's extortion.

Katz and the City of Edmonton had a business relationship. He ran a business and it paid taxes and created wealth... for the city. They city had no right to the business and Katz felt it was an unequal exchange. Thus, he wanted to renegotiate that relationship.

You cannot extort someone who wants the good or service you are selling and agrees to pay the price. Edmonton clearly wanted the Oilers... and thus were willing participants in the negotiation.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Again wondering why people choose to live in such a place. Hot, arid, limited water supply, constant threat of major fires to add to the already unbreathable air and pollution.

Celebs React To Massive Los Angeles Wildfires

 

[CycloneSweep]

Again wondering why people choose to live in such a place. Hot, arid, limited water supply, constant threat of major fires to add to the already unbreathable air and pollution.

Celebs React To Massive Los Angeles Wildfires

Because thats where the movie industry is? So it's the best city to live in if thats what you do with your life?
Also there is a metric crap ton of things to do, food to eat and things to see.

Edmonton is one of the few places in the world thats almost immune to natural disasters. At worst we get a tornado and even that is incredibly rare.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Again wondering why people choose to live in such a place. Hot, arid, limited water supply, constant threat of major fires to add to the already unbreathable air and pollution.

Check the weather forecast. It's like a mild summer day every day.

Also there is a metric crap ton of things to do, food to eat and things to see.

^
Also this.

Went to visit my buddy there in November (tons of direct flights from LAX everywhere). Checked out a Kings game, went to Nitro Circus, The Roxy, The Rainbow (saw Lemmy shortly before he died actually), rode bikes on the Strand at Venice Beach, Shopping on Melrose, hiked Runyon Canyon, bar hopped the strip, taco trucks, 2nd hand shops on Melrose, saw some C-list rock stars playing shows while I talked and drank a beer, ... I'm a working Joe and it's fun. With more money you can do more and there are many levels of "scenes". Never mind surfing or visiting other places (brb LV, SF, San Diego, Big Bear, ...)

He's engaged to a model/actress now and has his own business (he just moved there with 0 connections btw).
Never been beat-up, robbed, injured in an earthquake, burnt in a fire, or anything else you've seen on TV. He lives in W. Hollywood. Fresh water comes out of the tap. They have stores full of food. New cars and buildings have air filters, check out what Tesla is doing.

I've got a decent idea why someone would consider living there, especially a billionaire.