Ansar Khan: Daniel Cleary is coming to Wings camp on a pro tryout

[Henkka]

I just laughed

Me too. Kenny is trolling us.

Looks like they are gonna have 2 teams for pre-season games.

Team RED: 7 veterans + Howard (as a starter)
Team WHITE: 7 veterans + Howard (as a backup)

 

[HockeyinHD]

You know, maybe Cleary likes to play organized hockey, and wants to keep doing so, and he's a decent locker room guy, and it's not a big deal to throw a roster spot in the AHL to him.

Or it could be a vast conspiracy that, once illuminated, shows how incompetent everyone you don't like might be.

 

[Bench]

Or it could be a vast conspiracy that, once illuminated, shows how incompetent everyone you don't like might be.

Conspiracy? Holland has been very candid about the handshake agreement. No theories needed. Cleary gave up a multiyear deal in Philly, and in return, he's been getting continual deals to make up for that.

Most of us just thought that it was done after last year. And maybe it still is. But hey, one last hurrah!

 

[jkutswings]

As of last weekend, the guy still had his jersey hanging in the locker room. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to play him after he retires.

 

[benusmc]

The hero we've never needed, wanted, or asked for, but deserved...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You know, maybe Cleary likes to play organized hockey, and wants to keep doing so, and he's a decent locker room guy, and it's not a big deal to throw a roster spot in the AHL to him.

Or it could be a vast conspiracy that, once illuminated, shows how incompetent everyone you don't like might be.

I'm quite sure Cleary still likes to play organized hockey. It's pretty common with pro athletes wanting to play even when their body is no longer able to compete at that high of a level.

That doesn't mean it makes sense for the Wings organization to offer him a PTO.

As Bench pointed out, it's not a vast conspiracy. It's just Holland extending his loyalty to the point of absurdity.

There is no justifiable reason why Cleary should be getting this offer. He's a great locker room guy? Great! Make him an assistant coach. There are actual players available who might have a snowball's chance in hell at helping the team who deserve a PTO way before Cleary.

 

[Frk It]

We're way over the cap. We're not going to bring someone in on a legitimate PTO because even if they were great we couldn't sign them anyways.

Cleary is a body for the pre-season and even if he got a contract it would have to be one that can be 100% buried in the AHL like his last one.

Just funny that we are still catering to this guy...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

We're way over the cap. We're not going to bring someone in on a legitimate PTO because even if they were great we couldn't sign them anyways.

Cleary is a body for the pre-season and even if he got a contract it would have to be one that can be 100% buried in the AHL like his last one.

Just funny that we are still catering to this guy...

Right. But that still doesn't make Cleary the most obvious choice.

And do the Wings even need the vets now that the league has reduced the number to 8 players?

 

[Henkka]

Right. But that still doesn't make Cleary the most obvious choice.

And do the Wings even need the vets now that the league has reduced the number to 8 players?

Go and read that WIIM article.

We have 14 vets. They are gonna build two pre-season teams so nobody doesn't have to play back-to-back and you can give prospects bigger ice-time.

Cleary is gonna be a 6-7min player with guys like Tangradi so nobody else don't have to be.

When guys start coming back from World Cup, then he falls out again.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Go and read that WIIM article.

We have 14 vets. They are gonna build two pre-season teams so nobody doesn't have to play back-to-back and you can give prospects bigger ice-time.

Cleary is gonna be a 6-7min player with guys like Tangradi so nobody else don't have to be.

When guys start coming back from World Cup, then he falls out again.

I understand the reasoning behind it.

They league also reduced the required number of vets to 8 so a lot of the kids could fill those slots. Point being that Cleary, whose last NHL game was a year and a half ago, is not the next logical choice to fill that role.

 

[Frk It]

I understand the reasoning behind it.

They league also reduced the required number of vets to 8 so a lot of the kids could fill those slots. Point being that Cleary, whose last NHL game was a year and a half ago, is not the next logical choice to fill that role.

You know what their reasoning would be though.

Vet presence, youth mentoring, etc

 

[PullHard]

Go and read that WIIM article.

We have 14 vets. They are gonna build two pre-season teams so nobody doesn't have to play back-to-back and you can give prospects bigger ice-time.

Cleary is gonna be a 6-7min player with guys like Tangradi so nobody else don't have to be.

When guys start coming back from World Cup, then he falls out again.

You mean the part where they updated it and said the NHL has amended the number of vets required and that it makes the entire article nullified? *thumbs up*

 

[Winger98]

You mean the part where they updated it and said the NHL has amended the number of vets required and that it makes the entire article nullified? *thumbs up*

What I don't get is why guys who have played X games in the AHL wouldn't be considered a pro at some point. Louis Marc-Aubry hasn't played any (?) games in the NHL, but the guy's a pro hockey player at this point. Figure it's just a way of guaranteeing more NHLers out of jobs a place in camp.

 

[SirKillalot]

The hero we've never needed, wanted, or asked for, but deserved...

Sort of like a man's Kim Kardashian.

 

[PullHard]

What I don't get is why guys who have played X games in the AHL wouldn't be considered a pro at some point. Louis Marc-Aubry hasn't played any (?) games in the NHL, but the guy's a pro hockey player at this point. Figure it's just a way of guaranteeing more NHLers out of jobs a place in camp.

I think they also probably want to make the games profitable/ at a certain level of competition so ensuring that there are X number of "pro" players helps to keep it near NHL level, just a theory though

 

[HockeyinHD]

There is no justifiable reason why Cleary should be getting this offer. He's a great locker room guy? Great! Make him an assistant coach. There are actual players available who might have a snowball's chance in hell at helping the team who deserve a PTO way before Cleary.

That's moderately silly, though. On GR there are maybe, maybe 5 or 6 guys who are ever going to be even slightly relevant NHLers.

It's not like there are 12-13 future NHLers there so Cleary is somehow interfering with one of them getting a chance by merely existing on the roster. Stop that nonsense.

Him being there or not there has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the developmental track of any player who's any good at all. It's a completely nothing signing that impacts nothing, affects nothing, and serves only as some kind of goofy opportunity for the people who a) hate Cleary or b) hate Holland (or c) both) to hop up and down and howl about how it reaffirms all of their worst suspicions about both.

Bah. Whether the team signed Cleary or Derek bleeping King... it doesn't matter at all. Entirely meaningless.

 

[jkutswings]

But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that your average AHL player filling that slot has a 1-in-a-million chance at ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward.

Isn't that better, even infinitesimally so, than the zero percent chance that Dan Cleary has of ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward?

I mean, it's preseason, for heaven's sake. 99% of the fans aren't even awake until October, so why not play the odds, no matter how long a shot it is, to let a kid skate his heart out and see if he's worth more than a bag of pucks?

I mean, given the choice between 0.000001 and zero, I realize there's almost no difference, but when one has a (very very small) chance at helping your team down the road, and the other does not...why play the loyalty card for no reason?

 

[Wood Stick]

I honestly have no issue with him getting 40 games in Grand Rapids this year.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Excuse me for a second....

 

[Pavels Dog]

But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that your average AHL player filling that slot has a 1-in-a-million chance at ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward.

Isn't that better, even infinitesimally so, than the zero percent chance that Dan Cleary has of ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward?

I mean, it's preseason, for heaven's sake. 99% of the fans aren't even awake until October, so why not play the odds, no matter how long a shot it is, to let a kid skate his heart out and see if he's worth more than a bag of pucks?

I mean, given the choice between 0.000001 and zero, I realize there's almost no difference, but when one has a (very very small) chance at helping your team down the road, and the other does not...why play the loyalty card for no reason?

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that your average NHL player filling that slot has a 1-in-a-million of ever rubbing off some experience on a young player.

Isn't that better, even infinitesimally so, than the zero percent chance that your average AHLer has of ever giving your prospects a better idea of what it takes to be an NHLer?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's moderately silly, though. On GR there are maybe, maybe 5 or 6 guys who are ever going to be even slightly relevant NHLers.

It's not like there are 12-13 future NHLers there so Cleary is somehow interfering with one of them getting a chance by merely existing on the roster. Stop that nonsense.

Him being there or not there has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the developmental track of any player who's any good at all. It's a completely nothing signing that impacts nothing, affects nothing, and serves only as some kind of goofy opportunity for the people who a) hate Cleary or b) hate Holland (or c) both) to hop up and down and howl about how it reaffirms all of their worst suspicions about both.

Bah. Whether the team signed Cleary or Derek bleeping King... it doesn't matter at all. Entirely meaningless.

Moderately silly? Stop that nonsense? Can you make a cogent argument without the condescension?

You're inventing an argument I never made and then calling it nonsense.

For the record, I don't hate Cleary. I really like the guy. He gave everything he had to this team and I don't blame him for wanting to stay. But how many other GMs offer PTOs to a former player who hasn't been in the league for a year and a half?

This is what, the fourth time that people have had to try to explain away how bizarre it is that Kenny keeps bringing him back? It's ridiculous.

There's really no other player that would benefit with a PTO, even as a thank you or personal favor or leverage of some sort? Because Cleary should've used all his up by now.

 

[Eye of Ra]

that is insane.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The problem with this is the optics. In that distant time when the Wings were perennial contenders this kind of stuff would have been seen as a lovely gesture toward a player who won a Cup with the Wings and played a good role in that.

But that's just the thing, Cleary stayed around past his sell-by date and the team indulged him even though it made no sense given the team's situation and he thus became symbolic for the decline of the Wings. He was never beloved but became almost disliked toward the end.

But Holland and Co. seem to be utterly ignorant of that and the gap between the team's brain trust and the fan base has never been wider. It seems like in Holland's mind Cleary is Darren McCarty and a fan favorite who brings positive vibes while we're somehow just a player or two away from contending. In reality, Dan Cleary is and was a management favorite and that's that.

That just reinforces the message that they're running the franchise for themselves and the careful maintenance of their own deluded self-perception rather than the paying customers or the long-term benefit of the franchise.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that your average AHL player filling that slot has a 1-in-a-million chance at ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward.

Isn't that better, even infinitesimally so, than the zero percent chance that Dan Cleary has of ever playing meaningful NHL hockey going forward?

I mean, it's preseason, for heaven's sake. 99% of the fans aren't even awake until October, so why not play the odds, no matter how long a shot it is, to let a kid skate his heart out and see if he's worth more than a bag of pucks?

I mean, given the choice between 0.000001 and zero, I realize there's almost no difference, but when one has a (very very small) chance at helping your team down the road, and the other does not...why play the loyalty card for no reason?

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/mailbag-brendan-shanahan/

You play "the loyalty card" because a mediocre to worthless NHL player who used to be okay at the game mentoring young players is far far more useful than you're giving it credit for. In Shanny's Q&A posted above, he says that Doug Sulliman was a huge part of why his wrist shot was so good and he scored 600+ goals. Doug Sulliman was a journeyman on his best days.

I'd pretty okay with having a guy like Cleary down on the farm who is cool with showing the young kids the ropes and helping to mold their thought processes into those of professionals. He needs to never play for the Wings in the regular season again because the game has certainly passed him by. Frankly, though, I don't give one **** about a veteran's roster slot on the Griffins. You're not pissed that Louis Marc-Aubry or Jeff Hoggan is down there, are you? That's the kind of guys who are affected negatively on the roster by Dan Cleary. All of the young kids can only be affected positively by him helping to teach them what it is to be a professional.

 

[Reddwit]

No one should care about this guy as a member of your favorite hockey team - he won't be that - but everyone should be curious as to how he became an Olympia Entertainment Trust Fund baby over the years.

Of all the guys to receive such extreme economic favoritism over the years, Cleary isn't the guy I'd put at the top.