D Ryan Merkley - Peterborough Petes, OHL (2018, 21st, SJS)

[Frk It]

I think it's because a lot of his issues aren't just off-ice, they are on ice-stuff.

I mean teams hate players who don't have a high compete level and float... This kid takes it a step further, he will just flat out give up on plays. Even plays that were off of his own turnover.

So yeah, not surprised by this at all.

 

[Michael Farkas]

[QUOTE="Cayouche5, post: 146818707]however i'm sure he's on every team top 120 list.[/QUOTE]

I know for a fact this is not true. Also, many teams don't have a list that goes past 100 or 120 even...

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

While I get staying away from them, the under any circumstances part is moronic. Like, really, he's available in the 4th round and you don't take him because he comes off as a douchebag?

Look, I get teams scare away from "me-first" players with Egos, especially at his age, but unless there is some truly revolting stuff that hasn't come to light yet, if you have a chance to draft this guy past the second round (I'd argue even top 35 picks), you do it. If he's a bad influence on the other prospects, kick him to the curb, but at least roll the dice.

Also, if you're that worried of him poisoning other young player's attitudes, if the other prospects were that easily influenced, they probably weren't going to find much success anyways.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Edit: Hotel Wifi is slow, apologies for double post

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

The NFL and NBA have had proven winners with rosters loaded with crack heads and wife beaters.

Leadership is an art. Good leaders make bad seeds buy into a philosophy that taps into their strengths. Merkley needs to get out of his Ontario comfort zone. At least that's one approach I'd make to get him on a different path.

Merkley has several issues, but a team saying "Do Not Draft!!!" says more about that team than it says about Merkley.

Sandis Ozolinsh was on a Cup winner. Skilled and fast, but worst NHL defenseman under 35 I ever watched in almost 40 years. Surround a kid like Merkley with the right people and you could hit it big.

Take a shot. Big whoop. Scouts have made way dumber assessments and recommendations than taking a kid like Merkley in Rounds 3 or later

Agree heavily.

The Mid 90s Red Wings had Probert and McCarty railing cocaine, Fedorov openly dating an underage girl in Anna Kornikova, and Shanahan, who stole a teammate and friend's wife.

LA had Stoll and Richards who both have openly been caught with party drugs and pain killers, as well as Voynov, a wife beater.

Chicago had Patrick Kane Fiasco, and while we have no way of knowing what is true, what isn't, it was still a significant distraction.

Teams can be dysfunctional and still be good

 

[Voodoo Child]

Constanino referenced HoSang and Deangelo as well.

He says that there is numerous amount of teams that under no circumstance would they draft Ryan Merkley.

Ho Sang and Deangelo...who still nevertheless didn't make it past the end of the first round.

Merkley at absolute worst gets picked like 76th or something...and busts, but I wouldn't be too upset picking a bust there.

 

[Frk It]

Agree heavily.

The Mid 90s Red Wings had Probert and McCarty railing cocaine, Fedorov openly dating an underage girl in Anna Kornikova, and Shanahan, who stole a teammate and friend's wife.

LA had Stoll and Richards who both have openly been caught with party drugs and pain killers, as well as Voynov, a wife beater.

Chicago had Patrick Kane Fiasco, and while we have no way of knowing what is true, what isn't, it was still a significant distraction.

Teams can be dysfunctional and still be good

Did they give up on plays on the ice during games?

Again... we're not just talking about off-ice stuff with this kid.

 

[93LEAFS]

What I wonder about is, if Ryan Merkley (hypothetically) was sitting there in the 7th round, how many of those teams would still pass on him.

As for the issues, ask @93LEAFS. He seems pretty in tune with some of Merkleys issues, and it goes beyond not caring

In short. Doesn't play with intensity, doesn't have an interest in playing defense, puck watches unless he has the puck and doesn't listen to coaching (and this is with two different coaches just at the OHL level). And is apparently a divisive character in the locker room.

Having watched both of them in junior. At least DeAngelo tried for all his faults. If the Knights moved back a 16 year old Marner to D, Marner would be the better defenceman. Merkley is an extremely flawed player. He plays defence like a pre-draft William Nylander.

 

[Mark Edwards]

I always roll my eyes at these

yeah you would not draft ho-sang deangelo merkley in the 6th round.. mmk noone believes it.

Just say you don't have such and such in the top 90 unless you REALLY like your 7th round pick over these guys

This is pretty much what some scouts are saying when they say no draft. They are saying he'd be long gone by the time they would ever be willing to take him. They think the player has zero chance of reaching the 6th, 7th round, so to them he's a no draft. They don't want him unless it was at a spot that they know he'll never get to.

[QUOTE="Cayouche5, post: 146818707]however i'm sure he's on every team top 120 list.

I know for a fact this is not true. Also, many teams don't have a list that goes past 100 or 120 even...[/QUOTE]

The majority of scouts I speak to tell me their lists are in the 90-95 players range. Sometimes they will add a bunch of extra names later on or have side lists (like a small players list) or but in general if they have a player ranked at 92 or that area he's a 7th rounder at best.

FWIW, a few scouts have told me he's not anywhere on their teams list.

 

[izzy]

his upside is f***ing ridiculous

teams would be dumb to let him stay available if they can take him in the second round

 

[Leopain]

Ho Sang and Deangelo...who still nevertheless didn't make it past the end of the first round.

Merkley at absolute worst gets picked like 76th or something...and busts, but I wouldn't be too upset picking a bust there.

I'm pretty sure if the GMs that picked them could go back in time to pick someone else, they would. Yzerman traded DeAngelo for a second rounder a year after drafting him.

And the public debate generated by Ho-Sang himself is not something any team would want...

Some people have a tendency to overlook defensive play as something that can be worked on. Well, it is possible to work on it but not every player manages it and if a guy doesn't care about it, he won't improve. You need a certain hockey IQ and a great deal of commitment. Plus there is the risk that the player loses his bite in the offensive zone if he concentrates on his play without the puck.

A defenseman can't be a defensive liability. In today's NHL, if he can't play defense, the other teams will exploit it constantly.

 

[boredmale]

I'm pretty sure if the GMs that picked them could go back in time to pick someone else, they would. Yzerman traded DeAngelo for a second rounder a year after drafting him.

from an Islanders POV there is nobody int he next 10-15 picks that I say to myself, OMG how did the Islanders screw up not taking that guy. The closest to that case might be Thatcher Demko.

In a hypothetical redraft scenario I might not have wasted the 57th pick to move up from 35 to 28, but I still probably would take my chances with Ho Sang with that 35th pick

I always said if i was a GM my drafting strategy would be after the first 10-15 pick go for swing for the fence type high reward, low probability of reaching that picks and defense(who generally take longer to peak) in hopes that once every 3 years I get a hit on by chances

 

[Maitz]

Hope the Habs spend their last 2nd round on him. Upside is too high, the kid still can learn.

 

[jiboy]

Are there any highlights of his bad defensive plays ?

Could only find video of his offensive prowess and he sure looks good in that department..Intriguing prospect , getting a huge DeAngelo vibe watching him

 

[hardkorejackets]

Are there any highlights of his bad defensive plays ?

Could only find video of his offensive prowess and he sure looks good in that department..Intriguing prospect , getting a huge DeAngelo vibe watching him

I also tried looking on Youtube for some but couldn't find any. Couldn't find any shift by shift videos that are starting to come around a bit more often nowadays either.

I'm a CBJ fan so I don't see him ending up on my team anyways... We pass at our point in the 1st round and I think he's gone by our pick in the 2nd round.

 

[SabresSharks]

In short. Doesn't play with intensity, doesn't have an interest in playing defense, puck watches unless he has the puck and doesn't listen to coaching (and this is with two different coaches just at the OHL level). And is apparently a divisive character in the locker room.

Having watched both of them in junior. At least DeAngelo tried for all his faults. If the Knights moved back a 16 year old Marner to D, Marner would be the better defenceman. Merkley is an extremely flawed player. He plays defence like a pre-draft William Nylander.

but, But, BUT ... high ceiling!

Let's try this scenario ...

You're the hiring manager at your company. You've interviewed a guy who's incredibly smart and capable. Your friend at the guy's current employee confirms what you've seen, but tells you he's also lazy, quite selfish, rubs people the wrong way, and doesn't respect his managers. He's loaded with potential, and would make an excellent employee, if he could only fix his attitude.

If you're honest with yourself, and being responsible, you decline to hire him. The potential reward doesn't justify the obvious risk.

I have no doubt Merkley will be drafted, and probably in the first round, but I can certainly understand why there are teams that won't touch him, under any circumstances.

 

[Stand Witness]

It should also be noted that both Ho-Sang and DeAngelo are young right now (22) and both have produced fairly well at the pro level for that age group.

I feel like Ho-Sang gets thought of as this 100 pt player from junior. He never was more than a high 80 guy.

 

[ottawah]

Are there any highlights of his bad defensive plays ?

I can probably produce a highlight reel of all of the bad defensive plays Doughty makes, it does not make him a bad D man (quite the opposite of course).

Even bad D and lack of effort on the D side is not a killer, otherwise Karlsson would have been a healthy scratch this year, he was that terrible without the puck. (due mostly to injury of course). The question is how does his offense translate. Personally the little I saw of him reminded me of Ryan Murphy offensively (and worst defensively), and thats not a good comparison for someone to want to take the risk of a higher pick.

I'm comfortable with him at 35 and up (and should be gone by 65) as the skill is obviously something beyond what most people have and can be taught, and the chance of getting an NHL player at that pick is relatively low in any case.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Teams are really stupid it seems like. It's the same reason that Sprong into the 2nd round in 2015, teams put way too much emphasis on personalities in drafts. As long as a dude isn't a wife beater or something like that, I genuinely don't care about his personality. Now, this is assuming that teams are saying no to him due to attitude issues, which seems to be the most likely reason.

What is the actual issue with Merkley? I see he's bad defensively and has questions about his work ethic, is that it?

So, here's my opinion, and here's how I settled on that opinion without any background knowledge. Also our prospect is good

 

[sammystl5]

I have done a good amount of research on Merkley. I decided to try to piece every incident and rumor involving him and put it together in an article. I tried comparing Merkley to some other stars and prospects who have had character issues. Hopefully this is a helpful tool
Ryan Merkley: The Enigma - The SB5

 

[HC7]

Are there any highlights of his bad defensive plays ?

Could only find video of his offensive prowess and he sure looks good in that department..Intriguing prospect , getting a huge DeAngelo vibe watching him

Go on the Guelph Storm website under videos and game recaps, his defensive game is garbage but 80% of it is because there is 0 effort in boxing players out, or staying in front of his guy. The other 20% is because he's clueless.

If you're wondering how he plays D picture someone standing up straight and reaching for the puck while not bending their arm or anything. Basically controller disconnected.

With that said his offence is so good that if he can be a slightly below average defender he will be a good player. If a team can get him to buy-in defensively 100% you've got a "steal". Easier said than done though.

 

[Fogelhund]

I have done a good amount of research on Merkley. I decided to try to piece every incident and rumor involving him and put it together in an article. I tried comparing Merkley to some other stars and prospects who have had character issues. Hopefully this is a helpful tool
Ryan Merkley: The Enigma - The SB5

It kind of reads like... here are all his great qualities, here are some bad points, which I'm now going to mostly dismiss.

 

[Frk It]

I have done a good amount of research on Merkley. I decided to try to piece every incident and rumor involving him and put it together in an article. I tried comparing Merkley to some other stars and prospects who have had character issues. Hopefully this is a helpful tool
Ryan Merkley: The Enigma - The SB5

Just because he knows what his weaknesses are doesn’t mean he’s going to do anything about it.

People have been telling him for years he needs to play defense, and he has made literally 0 improvement there.

He thinks he’s gods gift to hockey just as much as Ho-Sang does. It’s also more understandable for a winger to not want to play defense as opposed to a defenseman.

 

[sammystl5]

It kind of reads like... here are all his great qualities, here are some bad points, which I'm now going to mostly dismiss.

Didn't mean for it to come off that way, tried to keep the positives in the first paragraph. I just think that his issues are correctible. I think once an NHL has a hold of him we should see a change. I tried to give a little disclaimer at the bottom that I am Merkley fan. But I could be wrong so feel free to call me dumb if that happens.

 

[sammystl5]

Just because he knows what his weaknesses are doesn’t mean he’s going to do anything about it.

People have been telling him for years he needs to play defense, and he has made literally 0 improvement there.

He thinks he’s gods gift to hockey just as much as Ho-Sang does. It’s also more understandable for a winger to not want to play defense as opposed to a defenseman.

I think now that his career is facing actual repercussions he will be forced to change, whether it be by his agent or by whatever franchise selects him. I personally think he will correct his problems and do not feel he's a lost cause. As I said at the bottom I'm willing to bet on his talent and if I'm wrong I'm wrong