News Article: Custance On Trading Green - Don't Count On a First Rounder

[Redder Winger]

Good analysis by Custance
Assessing Mike Green's trade value, options and perception...

Assuming the Red Wings up their aggression in making trades at some point in the rebuilding process, their no-trade clauses throughout the roster will eventually be a real liability. Trade restrictions have been given out quite liberally as this telling chart from Colin Cudmore indicates

Tableau Public

According to an NHL source, his no-trade clause is ironclad so he controls this situation. Management has yet to broach the topic with its All-Star defenseman.

“I haven’t talked to Mike,” Holland said when asked about the no-trade clause. “I’ve been watching our team.”

So not only has Holland not started talking to teams, he's not yet talked to Mike Green about removing trade restrictions.

Custance also says Holland's bad contracts could hurt Detroit.

Green has more value when his salary is retained but it would be even greater if Detroit had the flexibility to take a bad contract back in the deal.

I think the concerning thing here is Green's return.
Custance calls Green a "poor man's Shattenkirk."
Shattenkirk brought back a first round pick and a second-rate prospect.
When he starts listing potential landings for Green, it's a fairly short list. And even those teams on the list are iffy.

A first rounder could be a tall order.

Click to read more...

 

[izlez]

So not only has Holland not started talking to teams, he's not yet talked to Mike Green about removing trade restrictions.

You WANT your GM telling his players that they are not wanted on the team?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You WANT your GM telling his players that they are not wanted on the team?

If the guy has an NTC and the team is looking to trade him, then he has to be told they are looking to trade him at some point.

 

[kliq]

I really don't believe anything Holland says to the media when it comes to things like this. He says what he says to appease season ticket holders. I'm not saying Holland has spoken to Green, but IF he has I highly doubt he would say so.

I hope a conversation has been had, and given the situation I highly doubt Green would interpret it as "they don't want me". This isnt a Winnipeg/Evander Kane situation.

 

[kliq]

I think the concerning thing here is Green's return.
Custance calls Green a "poor man's Shattenkirk."
Shattenkirk brought back a first round pick and a second-rate prospect.
When he starts listing potential landings for Green, it's a fairly short list. And even those teams on the list are iffy.
A first rounder could be a tall order.

Its hard to say what the return is, I don't think anyone thought that Brandon Smith would return a 2nd and 3rd last year. I could see Green bringing us back two 2nds, but I'm hoping for a 1st. I cant see him bringing back a 1st and a 2nd. Maybe we take back an expiring contract as we would have a ton of cap room to play with for the remainder of this season.

 

[Redder Winger]

I really don't believe anything Holland says to the media when it comes to things like this. He says what he says to appease season ticket holders. I'm not saying Holland has spoken to Green, but IF he has I highly doubt he would say so.

I hope a conversation has been had, and given the situation I highly doubt Green would interpret it as "they don't want me". This isnt a Winnipeg/Evander Kane situation.

Holland isn't a liar, based on what I've read and seen of him.

If he had talked to green and didn't want the press to know, he'd simply avoid the question. I don't believe he'd lie.

He's pretty open and honest with the media.

Besides, season ticket holders aren't going to revolt if he says he's talked to Green about waiving a no clause deal.

 

[MikeyDee]

Its hard to say what the return is, I don't think anyone thought that Brandon Smith would return a 2nd and 3rd last year. I could see Green bringing us back two 2nds, but I'm hoping for a 1st. I cant see him bringing back a 1st and a 2nd. Maybe we take back an expiring contract as we would have a ton of cap room to play with for the remainder of this season.

As always, the market dictates the value.

 

[kliq]

Holland isn't a liar, based on what I've read and seen of him.

If he had talked to green and didn't want the press to know, he'd simply avoid the question. I don't believe he'd lie.

He's pretty open and honest with the media.

Besides, season ticket holders aren't going to revolt if he says he's talked to Green about waiving a no clause deal.

I dont think Holland is an honest as you make him out to be, don't let your fandom cloud your judgement (that's a joke, simmer down).

I believe that every GM in every sport is essentially just doing PR when they talk to the media. Its about appeasing season ticket holders, keeping ownership happy, players happy etc. etc.

Fans like us here are what are typically called the hardcore fans, and what fans here what to hear, and what the average fan want to hear are not necessarily the same thing.

I dont expect a "revolt" either but a large segment of fans would consider talking about trading a guy like Green in January giving up. You have to remember that not everyone thinks just like you, I can tell you from first hand experience, that one of the first things you learn in business is to NOT assume that your consumers think like you.

Personally I hope he has spoken to Green, but I don't blame him for not making it public. All the does is appease a few hardcore fans, and maybe some sports talk show hosts.

 

[kliq]

As always, the market dictates the value.

100% agree. All it takes is a top D getting hurt and everything changes, but that can go the other way as well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

As always, the market dictates the value.

Agreed and Mike Green will be the #1 D man dealt at the TDL at least a 2nd+prospect should be the very least we get.

 

[SirloinUB]

Holland isn't a liar, based on what I've read and seen of him.

If he had talked to green and didn't want the press to know, he'd simply avoid the question. I don't believe he'd lie.

He's pretty open and honest with the media.

Besides, season ticket holders aren't going to revolt if he says he's talked to Green about waiving a no clause deal.

Holland has always held his cards close to his chest. No he is not a liar, but isn't about to reveal his goals and intentions to the 30 other gms.

Some of you need to stop hanging on every word Holland says and understand that part of the job requires "GM speak." If a GM has some quotes in the media he is either trying to accomplish something specific or isn't really saying anything at all.

Nothing to see here other than speculation from Custance.

 

[Redder Winger]

Holland has always held his cards close to his chest. No he is not a liar, but isn't about to reveal his goals and intentions to the 30 other gms.

Some of you need to stop hanging on every word Holland says and understand that part of the job requires "GM speak." If a GM has some quotes in the media he is either trying to accomplish something specific or isn't really saying anything at all.

Nothing to see here other than speculation from distance.

I've watched Hollland handle the press for 20 years now.

I disagree on two things.
1) Holland is surprisingly forthright.
Watch his year-end press conferences. He's super open about his thought process and his plans if you take the time to listne.

2) If he'd talked to Green, he wouldn't lie to the press and say he hadn't.
He'd deflect and change the subject.

There's no advantage to lying.
It doesn't give him more trade leverage.
It doesn't sell more tickets. There aren't any Red Wings fans sitting at home and getting ready to burn their season ticket plan if the Red Wings trade Mike Green

 

[SirloinUB]

I've watched Hollland handle the press for 20 years now.

I disagree on two things.
1) Holland is surprisingly forthright.
Watch his year-end press conferences. He's super open about his thought process and his plans if you take the time to listne.

2) If he'd talked to Green, he wouldn't lie to the press and say he hadn't.
He'd deflect and change the subject.

There's no advantage to lying.
It doesn't give him more trade leverage.
It doesn't sell more tickets. There aren't any Red Wings fans sitting at home and getting ready to burn their season ticket plan if the Red Wings trade Mike Green

Cool. I too have watched Holland handle the media for 20 years. I also watched the press conference.

It's one thing to be forthright about your previous season and your general direction. Its a totally other thing to speak to the specifics of your trade deadline plans.

I also don't see why it matters. Even if Holland hasn't talked to Green or other GMs, he has nearly 6 weeks to deal with that process

 

[BinCookin]

He doesn't have to talk to Green before he makes a "soft" deal.

Only after he kinda sets up the basics of a deal, does it become important to talk to green.

 

[Redder Winger]

He doesn't have to talk to Green before he makes a "soft" deal.

Only after he kinda sets up the basics of a deal, does it become important to talk to green.

I doubt it. I think you find out if your player is ready to move. You found out where he'd be willing to go.

You don't negotiate a deal and hope your player is OK with it.
It shows a lack of respect for the contract you signed and the player who signed it.
And it shows a lack of respect for the guy you are negotiating a trade with.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Unfortunately a 2018 2nd+2109 2nd round pick or a 2018 2nd round pick+Prospect might be the best we get

 

[Dotter]

Unfortunately a 2018 2nd+2109 2nd round pick or a 2018 2nd round pick+Prospect might be the best we get

That would be cool. It'd give me something extra to look forward to in 2109.

 

[Redder Winger]

Unfortunately a 2018 2nd+2109 2nd round pick or a 2018 2nd round pick+Prospect might be the best we get

If there are only like 3-4 viable landing places and Green rejects 2 of them, it really hurts Holland's ability to even get that much.

 

[Ezekial]

And if he rejects all of them we're in even more of a pickle.

 

[Claypool]

There's nothing wrong with expecting a first rounder. Cody Franson got a first rounder.

 

[lilidk]

Unfortunately a 2018 2nd+2109 2nd round pick or a 2018 2nd round pick+Prospect might be the best we get

just keep him

 

[Ezekial]

just keep him

I'd take a single third before I just let his contract expire, 2 seconds would be okay.

 

[lilidk]

Joe Sakic last year was worst GM . Just look what hi s done this year , brilliant trades . It has to be wright moment for trade and if cant get 1st rounder for Green , then just keep him for better opportunity

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

That would be cool. It'd give me something extra to look forward to in 2109.

Exactly seeing that both 2018 and 2019 drafts will have solid prospects 2018 is heavily laden with D men and 2019 heavily laden with Centers. Need to start building up our 2019 picks as well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If there are only like 3-4 viable landing places and Green rejects 2 of them, it really hurts Holland's ability to even get that much.

Which depending on the team could be very likely, That could very well happen but we need to get something reasonable for him.