Crosby Vs. Ovechkin Round 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
THE NEXT ONE #87 said:
Is it true? If it is. I´ll believe it coz wayne and mario have a special eye in such things.

A special eye :lol

Those two guys have been nothing but jokes as far as judges of talent.

But to answer your question, it's true. Wayne Gretzky (obviously not very bright) has said Sydney Crosby is the one who will beat his offense records. Personally, I think such comments do more harm than good as it sets up expectations way too high and is completely irrealistic.
 

Til the End of Time

Registered User
May 18, 2003
7,853
1
Santa Monica, CA
Visit site
pei fan said:
There are two guys who think Sidney may be as good as Gretzky and Lemieux.
They are Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux,but hell what do they know.

I have never, ever heard Mario say that Crosby could be as good as Gretzky or himself. I recall they spent some time training together, but that's it.

Do you have a link for Lemieux's comments on Crosby?
 

octopi

Registered User
Dec 29, 2004
31,547
4
Vlad The Impaler said:
A special eye :lol

But to answer your question, it's true. Wayne Gretzky (obviously not very bright) has said Sydney Crosby is the one who will beat his offense records. Personally, I think such comments do more harm than good as it sets up expectations way too high and is completely irrealistic.

He said that? How does he figure, Total Freakin' Magic? The NHL is not a scorers game these days.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
octopi said:
He said that? How does he figure, Total Freakin' Magic?

I honestly don't know what he was thinking but yes, he did say it. As far as I'm concerned, he became part of the circus that surrounds those players. You can't blame fans to label this guy the next one when the great one himself says Crosby will outdo his numbers.

The NHL would have to be completely deconstructed, Crosby would need optimal linemates/teammates, would need to outgrow his potential and finally would need great longevity (not something easy to do in a very intense, quite dirty NHL) to get a sniff at that record.

I don't know what the future of hockey is. I don't know how much they want/will open the game up but I doubt it would reach its effect in time for Crosby and his first 5-8 years in the NHL.

Out of all the current elite young talents, it's not even a given that Crosby will be the most productive.

IMO, Gretzky greatly shortchanged himself and the Oilers when he made that remark. He also did not help Crosby at all by building up expectations that enter the realm of fantasy and speculation.

I expect the game to open up a little, though. So Crosby (and several elite players) could have better numbers than the current dominant players have in a good season currently. But the bottom line remains, you will have to be MUCH better than Gretzky in order to break his records in this NHL. Not just a little better.
 

Epsilon

#basta
Oct 26, 2002
48,464
369
South Cackalacky
Vlad The Impaler said:
I honestly don't know what he was thinking but yes, he did say it. As far as I'm concerned, he became part of the circus that surrounds those players. You can't blame fans to label this guy the next one when the great one himself says Crosby will outdo his numbers.

The NHL would have to be completely deconstructed, Crosby would need optimal linemates/teammates, would need to outgrow his potential and finally would need great longevity (not something easy to do in a very intense, quite dirty NHL) to get a sniff at that record.

I don't know what the future of hockey is. I don't know how much they want/will open the game up but I doubt it would reach its effect in time for Crosby and his first 5-8 years in the NHL.

Out of all the current elite young talents, it's not even a given that Crosby will be the most productive.

IMO, Gretzky greatly shortchanged himself and the Oilers when he made that remark. He also did not help Crosby at all by building up expectations that enter the realm of fantasy and speculation.

I expect the game to open up a little, though. So Crosby (and several elite players) could have better numbers than the current dominant players have in a good season currently. But the bottom line remains, you will have to be MUCH better than Gretzky in order to break his records in this NHL. Not just a little better.

Part of it obviously has to do with Gretzky's position with Hockey Canada. He obviously has a vested interest in having the "next one" being a young Canadian player, which helps to promote the program in which he is deeply immersed. I seem to recall that Gretzky said some familiar stuff about Paul Kariya a decade ago.
 

David

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
2,007
0
Visit site
Vlad The Impaler said:
5-Dawgbone and David are spewing Pejorative Slured crap on this thread.

So it comes down to this, eh Vladdy?

I tried to keep quiet on many of your Pejorative Slured comments (and there have been quite a few and more of them lately...all in your desperate attempt to appear self-high and self-mighty) just because you have some good points a good portion of times but when you start personal attacks such as this because I shot your ignorant opinions down a couple of times (esp of your ignorance of Gretzky and the Oiler team of the '80s) then well, it's pretty sad...

Ovechkin quit on his team. It's as pure and simple as that.

Name me one quality individual that has quit on his team during an important Championship, let alone in the Championship game, in the last 30 years...and I said 'quality' individual so that doesn't include clowns like Shayne Corson...
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
David said:
Ovechkin quit on his team. It's as pure and simple as that.

Name me one quality individual that has quit on his team during an important Championship, let alone in the Championship game, in the last 30 years...and I said 'quality' individual so that doesn't include clowns like Shayne Corson...

You're comparing a player leaving a game thanks to dominant opposition to a player with issues.

That says it all about your lack of perspective.

I don't know what Oiler incident you are refering to. I honestly don't remember you. I just know that on this thread, you are making assumptions that differ from what the game was like.

Canada's game plan was obviously to contain Ovechkin. They did it very well and deserve the credit. Putting young players under huge microscopes and overly criticizing them by making all sorts of fantasy assumptions is sad and Pejorative Slured.

Players get injured and leave the game all the time. Happens a lot. But athletes are under a microscope, damn if you do, damn if you don't. At one point, you have to give players some slack and the internet, with roaming venemous kids who like to take shots at every player has made that impossible.

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh at the notion Ovechkin cowared back to his dressing room, choking under pressure and afraid. He's played in events that have made a much bigger impression on him. The reality is, he was at the center of the game plan and Canada pulled it off well. Don't blame Ovechkin for leaving. Give Canada the credit they deserve. Being hit by Canada all night is no fun. It just happen they got him good and he left.

Players leave games all the time. From tough Ds like Jackman to wingers like Satan to stars like Pronger to legends like Yzerman. Mike Richards is heart and soul as they come, and I don't see you fanboys calling him a quiter. People leave games. Now, I don't know what the extent of the injury is but with the score and the way the team played, I wouldn't have sent him back either. I garantee had he taken a few more shifts, he would have been toast and WOULD have required surgery.

We had big, gritty, mature players and we dominated the Russians, Ovechkin included. That's pretty much the end of the story. This is Canada's game and at that level, especially this year, the deck was stacked in our favor. Brent Sutter prepared this team well and Ovechkin lost this one. There's always losers in hockey. But people always have to make a bigger deal out of this than it really is and ascribe choking/quitting labels to anything that doesn't win.

Your behavior is totally ridiculous and very much following that trend.
 

ZombieMatt

Registered User
May 20, 2002
5,242
1
Here's the thing I don't understand about this debate.

Before the semi-finals it seemed that most on these boards were fawning and wooing over Ovechkin like they wanted to have his child.

Then he taunts some Americans and is shut down by the efforts of an ENTIRE team, and suddenly he's a disgrace and is never going to make it?

Flip flop, flip flop, flip flop, flip flop.

It's one thing to be convinced you were wrong based on long-term evaluation. It's another thing to change a stance you were hard on based on two games.
 

Vladiator

Registered User
Jan 2, 2005
663
0
New Zealand
David said:
Actually, I've been told that I'm a lover :D and a pretty good one at that! :D ...but we digress...

Actually #2, they were adults but guess what? So is Ovechkin...in age at least! ...and they were not all playing for Stanley Cup championships. Just one example: Davy Ellet played on a broken foot during a regular seaon game.

Get a grip. Recognize Ovechkin for what he is.

What the hell?! You are kidding, right? The guy will be unable to play for three weeks and you are questioning his commitment, bravery, etc... Why don't you tell me, using your logic, who is the biggest wuss of them all? Are yeah, the legend of Canadian hockey - Mario Lemeiux, who gets injured and is unable to play almost every season.

Get life!
 

Luigi Lemieux

Registered User
Sep 26, 2003
21,538
9,330
Vlad The Impaler said:
A special eye :lol

Those two guys have been nothing but jokes as far as judges of talent.

But to answer your question, it's true. Wayne Gretzky (obviously not very bright) has said Sydney Crosby is the one who will beat his offense records. Personally, I think such comments do more harm than good as it sets up expectations way too high and is completely irrealistic.
not saying they are supreme judges of talent or anything, but during the '92 playoffs mario said that jagr would one day be the best player in the league.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad