Crosby is starting to take over.

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Anksun

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Dec 13, 2002
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EroCaps said:
Jason MacIsaac said:
What's interesting about this debate is the fact that Crosby's superior vision is the main reason he kept the point race relatively tight. You can make the argument that vision is something exclusive to physical maturity and that age will play less of a role in Crosby's development as it will Ovechkin's. Or maybe it won't.

ugh? Vision and especially knowledge of the game gets better as much as physical maturity over the course of an nhl career. It only will get better. In fact, the difference between a player of 24 and a player of 29 years old is much more about experience than physical attributes imo.

But well, it will get better with both of them, so it's a moot point. ;)
 

66-30-33

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Jan 24, 2006
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SUPERFAN-1 said:
DrMoses said:
First stop the younger crap. They both play in the NHL I believe and I have never seen a handicap in the NHL because of age. That argument is TOTALLY SURPURFULLESS and shows weakness in your opinion.

Another thing, when you posters were informed in 2004 his draft year that he would get 50 goals and 100 points you call that poster a dreamer and that he had no hockey sense. Well guess most posters that ridiculed him or he was totally wrong. Was there ever an apology forthcoming to that individual? Hell no because you all real quick to denigrate someone but when it is shown that they were wrong it stays in limbo. So when you state that Ovechkin cannot do something, unless you are god, it means nothing. So my son, on what basis do you categorically say that it will not happen or cannot happen? Waiting for that answer because there is none.

The thing that makes Ovechkins numbers better, besides the scored more is he had very little help from his teammates. It was unheard of for a rookie or any other player to account for almost 30% of his team’s points as Ovechkin did while Jagar was a distant second. Where was the great and all-powerful Crosby nowhere to be found. Also when you stated that Wayne was the only player to score 200 or more points you were dead wrong. Mario did it also, so learn your facts before spouting incorrect information and passing it off as gospel.

You call me a homer, but what are all the Crosby and Malkin supporter? They have anointed both of these players superior to Ovechkin. One has not played one day in the NHL and the other was behind him. As it stands right now, Ovechkin is superior to both since he will be the rookie of the year and most likely the Pearson award winner (the player’s choice of the most valuable player.

So just because I can see the greatness because my head is not up someone’s butt, does not make me a homer but someone that can judge talent. Like I said before I saw Wayne before he came to the NHL and knew he would be special. His talent and that of Ovechkin just ooze from every pour in their bodies. These are two great players that will not be forgotten by the hockey world. And I do believe that when Ovechkin’s career is finished he will be in the same company as Wayne and Mario, and if you do not agree does not make you or me wrong because only time will tell.


Thanks for proving yet again you know nothing.


Ovechkin is far superior?

Ovechkin wont win the pearson..that is what Thornton will win, obviously!

All Crosby and Malkin supporters call Ovechkin a n00b and Malkin and Crosby are elite h4x0rs!!!!!1111oneeleven.

You don't know anything about anything.

You're the biggest whiner on the forums.

You're the biggest hypocrite on the forums.

You think that both Crosby and Ovechkin might be in the NHL.

You think Crosby will be crap and Ovechkin will be Gretzky-like.

You think you know talent but you say Crosby is nothing.

Shall i keep going or is that list long enough to know you know nothing?
 

66-30-33

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Jan 24, 2006
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EroCaps said:
Jason MacIsaac said:
Ovechkin has better vision than Bure ever had. That remark is a joke. Ovechkin had more assists his rookie year playing with scrubs than Bure's highest season total (50) which was during 92/93 on team with 6 70 pts getters, 4 30 goal scorers, and 9 20 goal scorers. He only surpassed 40 twice. It's not even close. Ovechkin's playmaking ability can be ridiculously underrated.

What's interesting about this debate is the fact that Crosby's superior vision is the main reason he kept the point race relatively tight. You can make the argument that vision is something exclusive to physical maturity and that age will play less of a role in Crosby's development as it will Ovechkin's. Or maybe it won't.


Yeah Ovechkin is 2x's the player Bure is..Bure is a lazy cherry picker, Ovechkin actually works hard to help his team out.
 

Le Golie

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Jul 4, 2002
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booboosae35 said:
If that guy is the best of the 23,505 then you must be the most dimwitted. Can't exactly call someone the best out of 23,505 if they can't even get the facts right within the body of their argument. Nice try with the Lemieux stats though, jack***. :clap:

Fire up your sarcasto-meter and read my post again.
 

The_Eck

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Jan 5, 2006
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SUPERFAN-1 said:
DrMoses said:
First stop the younger crap. They both play in the NHL I believe and I have never seen a handicap in the NHL because of age. That argument is TOTALLY SURPURFULLESS and shows weakness in your opinion.

Another thing, when you posters were informed in 2004 his draft year that he would get 50 goals and 100 points you call that poster a dreamer and that he had no hockey sense. Well guess most posters that ridiculed him or he was totally wrong. Was there ever an apology forthcoming to that individual? Hell no because you all real quick to denigrate someone but when it is shown that they were wrong it stays in limbo. So when you state that Ovechkin cannot do something, unless you are god, it means nothing. So my son, on what basis do you categorically say that it will not happen or cannot happen? Waiting for that answer because there is none.

The thing that makes Ovechkins numbers better, besides the scored more is he had very little help from his teammates. It was unheard of for a rookie or any other player to account for almost 30% of his team’s points as Ovechkin did while Jagar was a distant second. Where was the great and all-powerful Crosby nowhere to be found. Also when you stated that Wayne was the only player to score 200 or more points you were dead wrong. Mario did it also, so learn your facts before spouting incorrect information and passing it off as gospel.

You call me a homer, but what are all the Crosby and Malkin supporter? They have anointed both of these players superior to Ovechkin. One has not played one day in the NHL and the other was behind him. As it stands right now, Ovechkin is superior to both since he will be the rookie of the year and most likely the Pearson award winner (the player’s choice of the most valuable player.

So just because I can see the greatness because my head is not up someone’s butt, does not make me a homer but someone that can judge talent. Like I said before I saw Wayne before he came to the NHL and knew he would be special. His talent and that of Ovechkin just ooze from every pour in their bodies. These are two great players that will not be forgotten by the hockey world. And I do believe that when Ovechkin’s career is finished he will be in the same company as Wayne and Mario, and if you do not agree does not make you or me wrong because only time will tell.

Mario never scored 200 points ignoramus.
 

The_Eck

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EVery player has his weaknesses. Wayne, Mario had their own weaknesses. AO's weakness is that he doesn't have the peripheral vision that the real great passers have (ie: wayne, forsberg, mario, orr...). He's a good passer but he lacks the vision to make the incredible pass that make people in the stands wonder 'how did he do that'? Malkin and Crosby clearly have the ability to slow down the play, AO dictates the play with his speed not his vision.
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
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SUPERFAN-1 said:
DrMoses said:
Also when you stated that Wayne was the only player to score 200 or more points you were dead wrong. Mario did it also, so learn your facts before spouting incorrect information and passing it off as gospel.

Mario never scored 200 points. his best season was the 1988-89 season when he scored 85 goals and notched 114 assists for 199 points in 76 games.

Gretz had 4 200 point seasons. No other player has even approached the numbers that Gretz and Mario put up.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?encode=TRUE&pid=3105
 

gretzky1545

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Jun 8, 2004
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The_Eck said:
EVery player has his weaknesses. Wayne, Mario had their own weaknesses. AO's weakness is that he doesn't have the peripheral vision that the real great passers have (ie: wayne, forsberg, mario, orr...). He's a good passer but he lacks the vision to make the incredible pass that make people in the stands wonder 'how did he do that'? Malkin and Crosby clearly have the ability to slow down the play, AO dictates the play with his speed not his vision.


look for rationality and a tendency to avoid contentious, fruitless (and often baseless) arguments when identifying quality posts, like this one here, amid pride-attached rantings (everyone on HF does realize that its ok to admit you were wrong, or overreacted, right?....anyone?.....).
 

Captain Conservative

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Apr 1, 2004
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66-87-29 said:
SUPERFAN-1 said:
Thanks for proving yet again you know nothing.


Ovechkin is far superior?

Ovechkin wont win the pearson..that is what Thornton will win, obviously!

All Crosby and Malkin supporters call Ovechkin a n00b and Malkin and Crosby are elite h4x0rs!!!!!1111oneeleven.

You don't know anything about anything.

You're the biggest whiner on the forums.

You're the biggest hypocrite on the forums.

You think that both Crosby and Ovechkin might be in the NHL.

You think Crosby will be crap and Ovechkin will be Gretzky-like.

You think you know talent but you say Crosby is nothing.

Shall i keep going or is that list long enough to know you know nothing?

Not only rubbish, boring rubbish. At least SUPERFAN1 makes his delirious ranting entertaining.
 

tom_servo

Registered User
Sep 27, 2002
17,139
5,978
Pittsburgh
EroCaps said:
Jason MacIsaac said:
Ovechkin has better vision than Bure ever had. That remark is a joke. Ovechkin had more assists his rookie year playing with scrubs than Bure's highest season total (50) which was during 92/93 on team with 6 70 pts getters, 4 30 goal scorers, and 9 20 goal scorers. He only surpassed 40 twice. It's not even close. Ovechkin's playmaking ability can be ridiculously underrated.

What's interesting about this debate is the fact that Crosby's superior vision is the main reason he kept the point race relatively tight. You can make the argument that vision is something exclusive to physical maturity and that age will play less of a role in Crosby's development as it will Ovechkin's. Or maybe it won't.

Ovechkin's playmaking ability is under-acknowledged, I agree. Crosby has and probably always will have the advantage in that category; however, among wingers, Ovechkin will be among the league's elite assist-men. That's something that I hope doesn't become glossed over during his career.

But, if you're talking about Ovechkin's surprising amount of assists, I think you must place the same amount of attention upon Crosby's goal total. 39 goals at 18 years... I believe he'll be battling Ovechkin for the Richard without too much delay.
 

the_tman

Registered User
Jun 24, 2005
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EroCaps said:
Jason MacIsaac said:
Ovechkin has better vision than Bure ever had. That remark is a joke. Ovechkin had more assists his rookie year playing with scrubs than Bure's highest season total (50) which was during 92/93 on team with 6 70 pts getters, 4 30 goal scorers, and 9 20 goal scorers. He only surpassed 40 twice. It's not even close. Ovechkin's playmaking ability can be ridiculously underrated.

Although I agree that Ovechkin's playmaking ability is underrated, his assist totals this season can also be misleading. When you consider the fact that Ovechkin took 373 shots on goal that were stopped by the goalie (and countless others blocked, missed the net, or hit the post, I'm sure), you have to believe that a large number of his assists came from rebounds, or other such unintentional passes. These assists can hardly be attributed to his playmaking ability, and more to his shoot-first attitude.
 

tom_servo

Registered User
Sep 27, 2002
17,139
5,978
Pittsburgh
the_tman said:
EroCaps said:
Although I agree that Ovechkin's playmaking ability is underrated, his assist totals this season can also be misleading. When you consider the fact that Ovechkin took 373 shots on goal that were stopped by the goalie (and countless others blocked, missed the net, or hit the post, I'm sure), you have to believe that a large number of his assists came from rebounds, or other such unintentional passes. These assists can hardly be attributed to his playmaking ability, and more to his shoot-first attitude.

You must acknowledge, however, that such chances which resulted from rebounds or tipped shots remain a credit to Ovechkin, not a discredit. Those would be goals which he created. Thus, his assists were just as valid as Crosby's.
 

wildone26*

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Although I have been vocal in saying I dont think Crosby deserve the Calder this year, I think Ovechkin does; Crosby clearly deserves the tournament MVP and best forward for the World Championships unless one of the leading Czech or Swede scorers goes out and has a field day tommorow(something like scoring 6 points or more). Unfortunatley I hugely doubt he wins MVP since it will almost certainly go to a finalist. He should still get the best forward award though. Vyborny will win the MVP after the Czechs win the final.
 

octopi

Registered User
Dec 29, 2004
31,547
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the_tman said:
EroCaps said:
Although I agree that Ovechkin's playmaking ability is underrated, his assist totals this season can also be misleading. When you consider the fact that Ovechkin took 373 shots on goal that were stopped by the goalie (and countless others blocked, missed the net, or hit the post, I'm sure), you have to believe that a large number of his assists came from rebounds, or other such unintentional passes. These assists can hardly be attributed to his playmaking ability, and more to his shoot-first attitude.

Agree on how the assists are created, however, getting the puck to the net is bound to create better scoring chances one way or the other, so its not all bad....altho I do believe Ovechkin should pass more, just because the goalies always know to set up for the shot on him.
 
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