Crosby is starting to take over.

Status
Not open for further replies.

mattihp

Registered User
Aug 2, 2004
20,425
2,914
Uppsala, Sweden
SUPERFAN-1 said:
When the caps finally get all their young players on the same page and acquire one or two missing parts, Ovechkin will start to destroy the record books. The only one that will be left at the end of his career will be Wayne’s total number of points. That record will never be approached.
I think Ovy is the better player for the right now, but the final sentence here seems absurd.
 

ShadowFax

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
938
0
Nich said:
true crosby's skill can't be ignored. but seriously, neither can A.O's play. he was clearly the better rookie, yet people refuse to accept that and still ride crosby.

true i like them both, and true i think they are both amazing players with a hell of a hockey future ahead of them. so why is it always a competition? just let them play, and years down the road people can make a honest decision....not one just based on a rookie year. :dunno:

This isn't about who was the better rookie. This is about who is the better player now. Crosby outscored him in the latter part of the season in the NHL. And he is outscoring him in the WC's. There really shouldn't be a debate.
 

BIGTRAIN*

Guest
hpheikki said:
Are you high? Or have you seen any nhl games? The pace of the game is much higher in NHL and the games are much more entertaining to watch, because there is much more action.

I see more games in a week than you see in a month. To say the media is not biased against European hockey is to spit into the wind and wonder why you got hit in the face. If the Russians could develop goalies and defensemen, they would totally dominate hockey. And the NHL is not as entertaining even with the so-called enforcement of their rules. Just go back to the Olympics and the worlds and they were better games by far. The interference penalties for most parts were absent and the skating was great. This allowed the best players to shine and dominate the action.

To put this in a nutshell, the larger ice surface, makes sure players can skate or his team gets beat. Skating is the one skill that all Europeans do better than all North Americans and because of that fact they are the superior players. But since you are probably from Canada for you to hear that smack of insult. As I have noticed Canadian on mass believe, when it comes to hockey, they know all and are god gift to the sport. Such blatant crap smells.

One thing I think would be great would be for the NHL and the European league join up to form one giant hockey league. Wonder then how many Canadian teams would ever win another Stanley cup. It is my opinion it would have a very long stand in Europe and the rest of the time in America.
 

Canuck21t

Registered User
Feb 4, 2004
2,683
13
Montreal, QC
SUPERFAN-1 said:
The Albino said:
Please explain why that every time some mentions Crosby’s name he is only 18 years old. Well Wayne were only 17 when he entered pro hockey and not one person used that as an excuse. Ovechkin and Crosby were in the NHL as rookies and that is a fact. Guess you would have made excuses when Gordie Howe was still playing completive hockey at 50 years while the others were in there 20’s and 30’s. Drop the damn stick of him being only 18 years because it shows he is inferior to Ovechkin. Further Ovechkin was just a child of 16 when he played in the Russian Elite, which by all accounts is the second best hockey league.

Just admit that Ovechkin has the ability to do more with less talent around him than Crosby is. When the caps finally get all their young players on the same page and acquire one or two missing parts, Ovechkin will start to destroy the record books. The only one that will be left at the end of his career will be Wayne’s total number of points. That record will never be approached.
Why would I admit that if I don't agree? IMO, and you don't have to agree, at the younger stage, a 2-year gap makes a huge difference. Crosby is making linemates look very good right now at the WC and if he can get the same type of players on the Pens, he will also start to destroy the record books as you say it.
 

pei fan

Registered User
Jan 3, 2004
2,536
0
ShadowFax said:
This isn't about who was the better rookie. This is about who is the better player now. Crosby outscored him in the latter part of the season in the NHL. And he is outscoring him in the WC's. There really shouldn't be a debate.
He not only outscored Ovechkin in the latter part of the year but every other player in the league. Not to mention he did it with 2 wingers that cleared waivers 4 months previously.As far as the WC's the scoring race only tells part of the story. He is clearly the best player at that tournament,looking almost as dominant in some games as he did in junior hockey.
 

Bill McNeal

Registered User
Jul 19, 2003
12,845
225
Montreal
SUPERFAN-1 said:
Please explain why that every time some mentions Crosby’s name he is only 18 years old. Well Wayne were only 17 when he entered pro hockey and not one person used that as an excuse. Ovechkin and Crosby were in the NHL as rookies and that is a fact. Guess you would have made excuses when Gordie Howe was still playing completive hockey at 50 years while the others were in there 20’s and 30’s. Drop the damn stick of him being only 18 years because it shows he is inferior to Ovechkin.

What the Hell are you talking about? It's not an excuse. It's a fact. Most players get better as they age until they peak in their late 20s. Nowhere did I say that because he's 18 he's better than Ovechkin. In fact, I said that Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby now. I don't pretend to be a soothsayer.

And you know what people said when Gretzky first started? "Wow, he's great! And he's still a kid!" Which is exactly what people are saying about Ovechkin and Crosby.

Further Ovechkin was just a child of 16 when he played in the Russian Elite, which by all accounts is the second best hockey league.

"Don't you dare use age as a factor! Oh, and btw Ovechkin was only 16 when he wreslted bears with his bare hands."

Just admit that Ovechkin has the ability to do more with less talent around him than Crosby is. When the caps finally get all their young players on the same page and acquire one or two missing parts, Ovechkin will start to destroy the record books. The only one that will be left at the end of his career will be Wayne’s total number of points. That record will never be approached.

It's funny how you're the one turning this into a case of who's better. I enjoy them both but I actually prefer Ovechkin the player because he is so fun to watch and has an amazing off-ice personality. That doesn't mean I'm blind to Crosby's talent, which seems to be a side-effect of your hatred.

The funniest part is the people who so vehemently defend their 'boys,' if these guys passed you on a street they wouldn't give you a second look. You'd think you were getting a cut of his contract or you're rooming with the guy.
 

Nich

Registered User
Dec 8, 2004
6,895
0
Wantagh
why not start comparing who is the better player on a minute by minute basis?

12:35 - Crosby goes with roast beed sandwich with a side of fries, while A.O. goes with a turkey sandwich with onion rings. Obviously, Crosby's vision is far superior to A.O's with the roast beef selection....he is def showing his maturity....
 

Synergy27

F-A-C-G-C-E
Apr 27, 2004
13,217
11,537
Washington, D.C.
SUPERFAN-1 said:
The Albino said:
Just admit that Ovechkin has the ability to do more with less talent around him than Crosby is. When the caps finally get all their young players on the same page and acquire one or two missing parts, Ovechkin will start to destroy the record books. The only one that will be left at the end of his career will be Wayne’s total number of points. That record will never be approached.

So you think that AO is going to score 200+ points in one season eventually? If he smashes all of the other records, how can Wayne's career record not be in jeopardy?

Back on topic, I hate the way crosby handled himself this season, and I am bitter that he went to the Pens to begin with, but what he did in the second half of the season and what he is continuing to do now is very impressive. I expect him to be a top 5 scorer in the league next season (not really a bold prediction, being that he was #6 this year).
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
Grave77digger said:
Everyone is bitter that Crosby is a Pen, it was the whole Crosby Lottery that set everyone up for disappointment. Everyone hates him because they thought they had a shot of getting him.

It was and remains definately a factor. Nothing like feeling that you have a legit shot at something and then not getting it to fuel anger. No matter who won that lottery there would have been hatred and bad feelings that would last a long time. The venom at the time was enormous:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=153061

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=153160

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=153296
 

The_Eck

Registered User
Jan 5, 2006
3,034
0
Montreal
Bonzai said:
I couldn´t care less if Crosby ends up outscoring AO by an average of 30 points a season. Until he can lay out an open ice hit while maintaining puck posession, I´ll take AO. I´m not worried about scoring--my guess is Crosby will be a more prolific point producer than AO, but AO´s zeal, bullish play, determination and love of the game will never be matched by Crosby (who displays all these characteristics, but not nearly to the extent that AO does).

Regardless, the WC proves very little--the talent level is much below that of the NHL´s.

For christsake, why can´t Pens fans be happy with Crosby and Caps fans happy with Ovechkin?

And you base this statement on what exactly?
 

The_Eck

Registered User
Jan 5, 2006
3,034
0
Montreal
CCCP said:
I am not a CAPS fan, but I would take AO over Crosby! In fact, AO is the only reason i go to CAPS games!!!


Ok, let's use your logic here. Crosby was watching Olympics on tv, and i bet he was biting his toe nails when he saw AO sending team Canada home!!! :)

Oh, yeah, I forgot, if Crosby was on team Canada, they would've won the gold medal. :sarcasm:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Biscuit Bullet

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
6,423
2
Washington DC
Visit site
ShadowFax said:
This isn't about who was the better rookie. This is about who is the better player now. Crosby outscored him in the latter part of the season in the NHL. And he is outscoring him in the WC's. There really shouldn't be a debate.


You're right. C'mon you guys, let's all go home. :confused:
 

ShadowFax

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
938
0
Bonzai said:
You're right. C'mon you guys, let's all go home. :confused:

Can you honestly with a straight face say Ovechkin is better than Crosby? Crosby dominated the NHL at the end of the year (Over 2 points a game) and is dominating the WC (2 points a game). Hell Crosby is even being stripped of points at the WC (because of the international rules). He really should be at 14 points instead of 12. Ovechkin playing with Malkin only has 7 points in 6 games. I haven't been able to see Russia's games but he probably is getting more icetime than Crosby. The Canadian coaches roll 4 lines. And Crosby's unit usually plays the second half of the powerplay. Not to mention the games where they didn't want to run up the score and left his line on the bench.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
ShadowFax said:
Can you honestly with a straight face say Ovechkin is better than Crosby? Crosby dominated the NHL at the end of the year (Over 2 points a game) and is dominating the WC (2 points a game). Hell Crosby is even being stripped of points at the WC (because of the international rules). He really should be at 14 points instead of 12. Ovechkin playing with Malkin only has 7 points in 6 games. I haven't been able to see Russia's games but he probably is getting more icetime than Crosby. The Canadian coaches roll 4 lines. And Crosby's unit usually plays the second half of the powerplay. Not to mention the games where they didn't want to run up the score and left his line on the bench.

Please. Crosby is obviously leaching off of Brad Boyes.
 

A Flock Of Seguins

Registered User
Jan 6, 2006
331
0
Manchester, England
Canuck21t said:
SUPERFAN-1 said:
Why would I admit that if I don't agree? IMO, and you don't have to agree, at the younger stage, a 2-year gap makes a huge difference. Crosby is making linemates look very good right now at the WC and if he can get the same type of players on the Pens, he will also start to destroy the record books as you say it.
He's making his linemates look very good?
Boyes and Bergeron ARE very good, have been for a while now, and have been amazing since Thornton left Boston. Bergeron's more assists the Crosby, because Crosby's obviously making Bergeron get the puck and then pass it properly using mind-control.

Maybe nobody else on Canada is playing, Crosby's cloned himself and is wearing masks to assume these different positions! Surely! Yes, Sidney Crosby has saved the world!!!


It's 3 very good players gelling together to form one of the best WC lines of all time. I'm getting sick of this view that Crosby is the only player on any team he plays on and I want the other players to be acknowledged, partly because i'm a Flyers and Bruins fan (Carter and Richards have been great too). Canada have a fantastic, balanced team.

There's no point comparing AO and Sid, they're different players at different ages. "ooh, Crosby will outscore Ovechkin when he's 20 by 80 gazillion points" who cares? Ovechkin's ability to score with nobody to help him is amazing and always will be, his skating is impressive, his stickhandling, his ability to just dance through defensemen... while I was one of the people who didn't like Crosby at the start of the year, his talent is phenomenal too. I'm happy with both in the league and see no need to set one against the other.
They'll never be as good as Bobby Orr anyway. :D
 

Camshaft77

Registered User
Jan 3, 2005
272
10
Ontario
They are both great players and both will be at the top of the scoring stats for years to come. Ovechkin will be the rookie of the year and he did have the better year but Crosby was only 4 points behind him when the season finished so that says something about his ability as well.

What I take issue is the idea of the game on the bigger ice surface is faster and better. I will say right now that I am Canadian and i have a biased towards the style of play that is more common in North America.

With that said, the game in North America is quicker and when the rules are called just like they were for the most part in the NHL this year it is a fast paced hard hitting game that commands a skill level that is unbelievable. Where as in Europe with more space, the play does not come at defenders quite as quickly and the player has more time to make a play because of that extra space. I feel the game on the larger ice is not nearly as exciting especially when a team can play really well defensively and keeps the offensive players to the outside limiting anything resembling a good scoring chance.

I guess i will sum up my point like this, Aki Berg looks like a very capable and useful defender on the large ice why?? He has more time and space to make plays like his first pass and the forecheck is not nearly as intense. Then you look at his play with the Toronto Maple Leafs and he can't make the simplest of plays in his own zone, why is that? Because he does not have the time to make the play he could on the large ice.

I guess in the grand scheme of things I am going to defend the North American style of play and our rink size and the game in the NHL, while some other posters are going to come on here flame me and tell me why the European style of play is better.
 

ShadowFax

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
938
0
Mr Zebra said:
Canuck21t said:
He's making his linemates look very good?
Boyes and Bergeron ARE very good, have been for a while now, and have been amazing since Thornton left Boston. Bergeron's more assists the Crosby, because Crosby's obviously making Bergeron get the puck and then pass it properly using mind-control.

Maybe nobody else on Canada is playing, Crosby's cloned himself and is wearing masks to assume these different positions! Surely! Yes, Sidney Crosby has saved the world!!!


It's 3 very good players gelling together to form one of the best WC lines of all time. I'm getting sick of this view that Crosby is the only player on any team he plays on and I want the other players to be acknowledged, partly because i'm a Flyers and Bruins fan (Carter and Richards have been great too). Canada have a fantastic, balanced team.

There's no point comparing AO and Sid, they're different players at different ages. "ooh, Crosby will outscore Ovechkin when he's 20 by 80 gazillion points" who cares? Ovechkin's ability to score with nobody to help him is amazing and always will be, his skating is impressive, his stickhandling, his ability to just dance through defensemen... while I was one of the people who didn't like Crosby at the start of the year, his talent is phenomenal too. I'm happy with both in the league and see no need to set one against the other.
They'll never be as good as Bobby Orr anyway. :D

Have you watched any of Canada's games? You probably haven't because if you had you wouldn't have made this post.
 

A Flock Of Seguins

Registered User
Jan 6, 2006
331
0
Manchester, England
I have managed to see one, what is your point? Which area of my argument are you focusing in on? Are you asserting the BBC line is an awful one that has no chemistry? What has happened at the olympics has retroactively cancelled out my assertion and my experience of Bergeron and Boyes, who I've followed all year, being good? Carter hasn't been very good at both ends of the ice?

Most of what I said addresses what's been cited in this thread, and on the board as a whole: Crosby's singular dominance of Hockey. Has he made every single play on his own? Have they stopped icing other players so he can play without them holding him back or something?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->