Crosby in negotiations with Lugano - per TSN

[Siberian]

I laughed so hard when I was reading this pile of BS. I can't believe some people take it for the clean coin. This is just a cheap bluffing probably by his agent, who is greedy for some money. Perhaps it's a NHLPA's cheap move during the last negotiations to have some impact on rookies salaries.

There is one thousand reasons this is just a lie. First of all all the endorsment deals Crosby signed considered him being in N America getting maximum exposure. Second nobody in Europe (including Russia) will pay a boy this amoiunt of money. Third, he can still be a bust, fourth he will probably be invisible on the big ice for a long time he will need adjustment. Fifth, noone knows him in Europe. There are lots of other reasons but these should be enough.

 

[Habsfan 32]

I think we should not get too excited with this he's probably just making sure he has another place to play if the Lock Out continues.

 

[CREW99AW]

my bad, i had no idea there was a CBA in place. when did this happen?

There are comments from credible sources (tsn.ca,foxsports.com),that the new cba will have the ufa age lowered to 28 in the last few yrs of the new cba.Use the search feature here on hf to find the articles/links.

this is a lot more believable,then a cba that has players becoming ufas at 22 and picking where they want to play

 

[Macman]

I have to believe all the "good riddance" guys would have said the same thing about Gretzky had they been around when he signed with the WHA -- and we all know how that turned out. Crosby WILL play in the NHL, just like Gretzky did. Maybe not next year but soon enough, so why all the bitterness and vitriol? I've got to think it may be the realization finally that there could be other options out there for some players under a new CBA; that maybe more than just scrubs will jump ship; and that maybe there are European teams with a bit of cash to wave under player noses.

I don't see what the big deal is. Crosby would be seriously stupid not to consider a year in Switzerland if the size of the contract is accurate -- and especially if it's tax free as they often are over there. He's going to be barely 18 when training camps open and a year in Europe would allow him to get stronger, bigger and better prepared for the NHL. Geez, Europeans do it all the time before coming over.

I have to laugh at the outrage that Crosby is somehow obliged to play in the NHL at the earliest opportunity and he's a greedy punk if he does otherwise. He's not obliged and we may have to get used to that under the new reality.

 

[Debrincat93]

Exactly, screw him if he does this. Gatorade and Reebok would probably pull something to get their money back too.

i agree full fold, if the kid leaves, adios, dont come back at all... have fun

 

[Ban Hammered]

I hope he signs and all this hype about him "saving the NHL" becomes nothing more than a fantasy.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Nice reach there, chum.

Zetterberg, Kovalchuk Ruutu...likely grew up dreaming to play in the NHL. It's, BY FAR, the most competitive, highest level that a hockey player can get to. In the long run, the most money is available in the NHL.

Conversely, do you think that Crosby...or any hockey player in North America...dreams of one day lacing them up for "Lugano," "Davos" or even "Ak-Bars Kazan?" Doubtful.

It's his perogative if he wants to go play in Europe...but it's mine to look down upon him for it. Leave it to you to turn this into another "boo-hoo, the new system will be so evil" post.

(Forgetting for a minute the fact I don't think he is going to Europe)

I'm surprised by your attitude here.

This sort of centrist, elitist attitude is exactly what you get hammered with all the time when people piss you off about the unworthy Preds, the cowboy hats and all that **** on why Nashville doesn't deserve a franchise.

Then you turn around and piss on other options and the people who reportedly might consider them.

I thoroughly hate the financial system in the NHL and think rookie caps are moronic. More and more players are going to at least consider the option now. It's even more obvious they will do so as long as a deal isn't signed.

And while it may not apply to Crosby, I know tons of people who would give teir left nut to go to Europe and work there for a few years and even take a salary cut to do so.

Anyway, I don't think Crosby is seriously considering Europe. His agent would be CRAZY not to look at all the options, especially until there is a CBA in place. Then after that, they can get out the calculator and see if the system makes sense or if there's something out there better for Crosby should he be interested.

But hypothetically, if he decided to leave for Europe, I don't see what's the big deal. Players leave all the time for the NHL or other destinations. You've had your share of imports on the Preds and I don't see you looking down on them.

You're right when you say it's your prerogative to look down on him, but it makes you look exactly like other people you despise and is inconsistent with your usual views. You're not the center of the world, nor are your interests (like the NHL).

I have more trouble with veterans who go for cash because they have huge bank accounts. Sydney Crosby is at the start of his career. All it takes is one injury to put an end to it. Doesn't even have to happen on the ice. At this stage, it is wise for him to consider all financial options at his disposal because he's going to instantly secure not only his future but the future of his family with it.

When you think of how close guys like Robyn Regehr came close to never playing, it makes you pause... at least it does for me.

Anyway, a word of warning: if the NHL is bound for the cap (which I think is bright) and bound for rookie maxes (which is unfair, flawed, stupid and misguided) you better get used to it because some youngsters will definitly not cross, and some North Americans might even start in Europe. They aren't slaves or personal toys and they can damn well play where they wish. Condemning them for it is just petty.

Europe is amazing, and there's a great skill level there. Enough that in a few years, a couple of youngsters could put a league or two on the map.

 

[ZombieMatt]

1. In regards to his endorsements - Reebok and Gatorade would have been stupid to NOT include clauses that he must be playing in the NHL for them to take effect. Considering the context in which the deals were signed (no NHL season), this is something that any corporation with half a brain would have taken this into consideration when drawing up any agreement. It likely wouldn't have been thought of three years ago, but considering the time, it doesn't make sense for them to cover their bases.

Also, in terms of his deal vs Lebron James', it simply comes down to merchandise sales. Hockey jerseys and skates simply don't come in the same economic stratosphere of basketball jerseys and basketball shoes. Nike signed LeBron to that monster deal because they knew it would have paid for itself BEFORE he ever stepped on to the court. He could have torn his knee scrambling for the tip off of his first game and never played again, and Nike wouldn't have lost a dime because of the contract. James' selling power before he played was big enough to generate his contract's worth of revenue in sales.

That is not the same for Crosby.

2. Rookie maximums are ridiculous and will ultimately hurt the game. A team should be able to pay its own players whatever the hell it wants to. By lowering the entry level contract it is going to cause more young Europeans to stay in their domestic league because they can make more money there. And I don't want to hear the "if they don't want to come here than good riddance to them, blah blah blah, I'm bitter and jealous and they're all so greedy and spoiled" garbage. Because ANY individual in the same situation would go to the employer that pays the most. People already complain that the league is watered down and needs to contract teams. Think of the situation if there are 30 less 2nd-line European players in the league. Is that going to help improve the on-ice product? Seems unlikely to me.

 

[nomorekids]

(Forgetting for a minute the fact I don't think he is going to Europe)

I'm surprised by your attitude here.

This sort of centrist, elitist attitude is exactly what you get hammered with all the time when people piss you off about the unworthy Preds, the cowboy hats and all that **** on why Nashville doesn't deserve a franchise.

Then you turn around and piss on other options and the people who reportedly might consider them.

I thoroughly hate the financial system in the NHL and think rookie caps are moronic. More and more players are going to at least consider the option now. It's even more obvious they will do so as long as a deal isn't signed.

And while it may not apply to Crosby, I know tons of people who would give teir left nut to go to Europe and work there for a few years and even take a salary cut to do so.

Anyway, I don't think Crosby is seriously considering Europe. His agent would be CRAZY not to look at all the options, especially until there is a CBA in place. Then after that, they can get out the calculator and see if the system makes sense or if there's something out there better for Crosby should he be interested.

But hypothetically, if he decided to leave for Europe, I don't see what's the big deal. Players leave all the time for the NHL or other destinations. You've had your share of imports on the Preds and I don't see you looking down on them.

You're right when you say it's your prerogative to look down on him, but it makes you look exactly like other people you despise and is inconsistent with your usual views. You're not the center of the world, nor are your interests (like the NHL).

I have more trouble with veterans who go for cash because they have huge bank accounts. Sydney Crosby is at the start of his career. All it takes is one injury to put an end to it. Doesn't even have to happen on the ice. At this stage, it is wise for him to consider all financial options at his disposal because he's going to instantly secure not only his future but the future of his family with it.

When you think of how close guys like Robyn Regehr came close to never playing, it makes you pause... at least it does for me.

Anyway, a word of warning: if the NHL is bound for the cap (which I think is bright) and bound for rookie maxes (which is unfair, flawed, stupid and misguided) you better get used to it because some youngsters will definitly not cross, and some North Americans might even start in Europe. They aren't slaves or personal toys and they can damn well play where they wish. Condemning them for it is just petty.

Europe is amazing, and there's a great skill level there. Enough that in a few years, a couple of youngsters could put a league or two on the map.

Fair enough...but I think you're missing what I'm getting at. It just seems like, if I have a dream to do one thing in particular...and all of a sudden I'm willing to compromise it because I can make more money doing it another way...a way that's contrary to everything I've always said I'm about...it says something about who I am and the character that defines me. If it's worth more to him to take the money and go play in a third-tier league(and yes, that's what I think the Swiss league is) where he'll surely score a zillion points in a year because he's not playing against thebest int he world...then...that's his choice...but I can't force myself to respect that.

As for the rookie cap thing...again...I have to disagree. As I said before...there aren't many services in which a product is delivered without any kind of guarantee that are paid for up front. Suppose the rookie max is eliminated...and the Hurricanes wind up with the number 1 pick. Crosby and Brisson then hold that 3 million dollar number over the Canes' heads, and insist that if they don't see 4...Crosby is sipping chocolate in the Alps. Left with no choice, really...the Canes pay it...and Crosby goes on to a mediocre rookie season(NAY! IMPOSSIBLE I SAY! ). He accumulates 10 goals and 22 assists for 32 points, playing decent minutes. The next season isn't much better..and his motivation\interest\confidence is starting to sink...but then he brightens up a bit, because he remembers he's making FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, sight unseen!

See what I'm driving at\my worries?

 

[the_gman83]

This seems to me like a silly reason to be attacking Sidney Crosby's character. From what I read, Crosby didn't say or do anything.

All I see is Pat Brisson doing his job.

 

[stv11]

I laughed so hard when I was reading this pile of BS. I can't believe some people take it for the clean coin. This is just a cheap bluffing probably by his agent, who is greedy for some money. Perhaps it's a NHLPA's cheap move during the last negotiations to have some impact on rookies salaries.

There is one thousand reasons this is just a lie. First of all all the endorsment deals Crosby signed considered him being in N America getting maximum exposure. Second nobody in Europe (including Russia) will pay a boy this amoiunt of money. Third, he can still be a bust, fourth he will probably be invisible on the big ice for a long time he will need adjustment. Fifth, noone knows him in Europe. There are lots of other reasons but these should be enough.

You're right on all accounts (except your fifth point, the guy's reputation reached Europe). 10M$ is above Lugano's yearly working budget (not only player costs, but all expenses included), so there's no way this story is anything else than a lie. No team outside the russian league can pay any player more than the expected NHL rookie cap, and I doubt even russian teams will pay that amount of money to a canadian junior player when they can go after guys like Datsyuk or Kovalchuk.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Fair enough...but I think you're missing what I'm getting at. It just seems like, if I have a dream to do one thing in particular...and all of a sudden I'm willing to compromise it because I can make more money doing it another way...a way that's contrary to everything I've always said I'm about...it says something about who I am and the character that defines me. If it's worth more to him to take the money and go play in a third-tier league(and yes, that's what I think the Swiss league is) where he'll surely score a zillion points in a year because he's not playing against thebest int he world...then...that's his choice...but I can't force myself to respect that.

As for the rookie cap thing...again...I have to disagree. As I said before...there aren't many services in which a product is delivered without any kind of guarantee that are paid for up front. Suppose the rookie max is eliminated...and the Hurricanes wind up with the number 1 pick. Crosby and Brisson then hold that 3 million dollar number over the Canes' heads, and insist that if they don't see 4...Crosby is sipping chocolate in the Alps. Left with no choice, really...the Canes pay it...and Crosby goes on to a mediocre rookie season(NAY! IMPOSSIBLE I SAY! ). He accumulates 10 goals and 22 assists for 32 points, playing decent minutes. The next season isn't much better..and his motivation\interest\confidence is starting to sink...but then he brightens up a bit, because he remembers he's making FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, sight unseen!

See what I'm driving at\my worries?

Actually, that is a good point on the second item. I do believe an ideal system would allow very cheap qualifying offers (50%, possibly less for very high salaries) and no minimum on years signed.

The whole NHL system is currently flawed because teams had to lowball rookies because the QO system was insanely dumb (almost always going up) and the vets were overpaid. The NHL should live more by a system of meritocracy and give the money to the good players, no matter of young or old.

But it's still a good point.

But your first point, we still disagree. That makes you an ignorant, cowboy hat-wearing hack!

Actually, I agree with your first point as well, if we are talking about reasonable percentages. But when you are talking about possibly more than 300% what he would make in the NHL, it gets you thinking.

I consider myself extremely grounded and have lifestyle, family and dreams high on my priority list. But if I was offered 150% of my income, I'd consider a lot of options. He's offered way more than that. It's even worse for hockey players because it's really performance-related, competitive and demands optimum physical shape. So you want to look at your option because your career could be cut short and even if it isn't, your career will likely be short.

I tell you, it is bound to happen the way this CBA is shaped up. It won't be Crosby but some player will eventually break the ice. Then a couple of others and after that, the floodgate will open and it will be (IMO) a real international free market. Because the way the NHL is structured, certain rookies have more interesting options.

 

[devilman]

Let's hope his agent does not poison this kid too much. I think he wants to make pressure to get max. money for his client. No way Lugano is going to be the place he'll play, although it would be great for our league, and he can develop and show his skills playing with men in a league where stars are not targets to end/threaten their carrers.

 

[Mystic]

10M$ in Lugano on three years is simply impossible! Lugano would never make such an offer, it's suicide! Imagine the reaction of the other import player who earn maybe 300'000 or 400'000$ a year. There would be a problem!

But the one of you who thinks that Crosby's reputation didn't came to Europe is wrong. But I would say: don't worry for the moment! No club in Europe can pay Crosby 3,5M$/year.... except Russia!

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

10M$ in Lugano on three years is simply impossible! Lugano would never make such an offer, it's suicide! Imagine the reaction of the other import player who earn maybe 300'000 or 400'000$ a year. There would be a problem!

But the one of you who thinks that Crosby's reputation didn't came to Europe is wrong. But I would say: don't worry for the moment! No club in Europe can pay Crosby 3,5M$/year.... except Russia!

The deal (whether the $10,000,000 figure is accurate or not) seems to be structured around a bonus system. I don't know if it makes the $10,000,000 more acceptable for Lugano or not.

 

[MaV]

$10,000,000 for three years, no way on earth. Unless seven millions come from bonuses from merchandising or something, heh.

But a couple of points. First people say that it makes no sense to play in Russia or Europe, because these kids will earn more in long run in NHL. Well, that depends on the CBA really. In the previous one rookies had to sign entry level deals only until they were 25. If that's the case now, consider Ovechkin for example. Playing five years in Russia for $1.5-$2 or playing four years for rookie max + one season in free market value, which is more? After those five years he could sign normal contract in NHL. That's if they keep that clause from the old CBA.

Then, "NHL is the best league, players should play there". Of course it's true now, but I also think it is at the moment money influenced. I mean, if you take all the non-North Americans away from NHL, return them to their teams here, and have a Football's Championship league like system as they used to have with EHL and combine that with the different style and bigger rinks and some other stuff, I think there could be action that might almost match the NHL action for the players. Especially if you turn the tables around and figure that the money would be here, and teams could sign some top-end North Americans as imports. So the balance is in my mind money enforced now, and maybe could change if the money issue was balanced. Of course right now there is nothing that would suggest that's actually happening, the difference is huge, cap or no cap. But the market will eventually decide things like that.

 

[stv11]

The deal (whether the $10,000,000 figure is accurate or not) seems to be structured around a bonus system. I don't know if it makes the $10,000,000 more acceptable for Lugano or not.

Look at my previous post, there's no way that figure is true. $10,000,000 is above Lugano's yearly total expense. If they really had that much money available for the next three years, they would have such a financial advantage over everyone else in the league that it would be stupid to use it on one single player when they could simply go after the ten best players in the league, weakening their opponents in the process.

The highest salary in the swiss league is around $400,000, which is still way under the NHL rookie cap.

 

[Dream Big]

How many games in a season for Swiss league?

Does anyone know off hand how many games are played a season, the length and also the amount/distances involved in playing other teams?

 

[stv11]

Does anyone know off hand how many games are played a season, the length and also the amount/distances involved in playing other teams?

44 regular season games and 3 best of seven rounds in the playoffs. The longest drive for an away game is 450km, a 5 hours bus drive. Lugano is one of the team who travel the most because of its geographical location, but no more than 10 games require drives of 3 hours or longer.

 

[Dream Big]

Thanks for that info. Sounds like a safer and more pleasant route to go for a young person like Crosby.

Fewer games mean less wear and tear on the body. A road trip no longer than 5 hours also sounds great. If I were the parent I sure wouldn't mind living in Switzerland for a year.

Did I hear lower taxes, chocolate and Shania Twain makes Switzerland her home. Where do I sign?

 

[Mystic]

Sure that that way of thinking could be interesting..... BUT imagine your reputation sinking in America then.....

 

[Macman]

Look at my previous post, there's no way that figure is true. $10,000,000 is above Lugano's yearly total expense. If they really had that much money available for the next three years, they would have such a financial advantage over everyone else in the league that it would be stupid to use it on one single player when they could simply go after the ten best players in the league, weakening their opponents in the process.

The highest salary in the swiss league is around $400,000, which is still way under the NHL rookie cap.

Sure, but the contact is for $10 mil over three years, not one, if the report is accurate (and it might not be.) You're also assuming that team's always do the right thing economically, which we know isn't the case. Someone suggested that Lugano only draws 5,000 fans a game in a 7,000-seat building. Those games immediately becomes sellouts, in all likelihood, with the most anticipated young talent to come along in a decade, so it immediately makes a little more economic sense. It also makes more sense if ticket prices rise (which we also know never happens.)

I seriously doubt Crosby would go but I also don't think the preminent player management group in the world would lie about this and then actually name the team. They might be exagerrating the seriousness of the offer and their interest, but there must be some truth to it.

 

[stv11]

Sure, but the contact is for $10 mil over three years, not one, if the report is accurate (and it might not be.) You're also assuming that team's always do the right thing economically, which we know isn't the case. Someone suggested that Lugano only draws 5,000 fans a game in a 7,000-seat building. Those games immediately becomes sellouts, in all likelihood, with the most anticipated young talent to come along in a decade, so it immediately makes a little more economic sense. It also makes more sense if ticket prices rise (which we also know never happens.)

I seriously doubt Crosby would go but I also don't think the preminent player management group in the world would lie about this and then actually name the team. They might be exagerrating the seriousness of the offer and their interest, but there must be some truth to it.

Keep in mind that we're talking about Switzerland, a very small country. The population of the city of Lugano is 25000, 100000 in the area. It is a team with a lot of fans outisde its own area who can't go to many games because of the city's geographical location (I speak as one of those). Realisticaly, an increase of 1000 at best might be expected (Crosby's reputation may have reached Europe, but the hype is nowhere close from its level in Canada, so 1000 is the highest increase one can expect). Considering that the ticket price are in the $15-$30 range, we still fall way short of 10M over three years.

Lugano may have shown some interest in signing Crosby if the next NHL season is cancelled, anything more than that simply can't be true. Outspending the NHL rookie cap is out of question for any team outside the russian league.

 

[Macman]

Lugano may have shown some interest in signing Crosby if the next NHL season is cancelled, anything more than that simply can't be true.

I think you're probably right.

 

[baldrick]

If nothing else its something to discuss while waiting,waiting,still waiting.....