Could there be co-winners of the Calder this year??

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,958
1,774
Rostov-on-Don
BigE said:
Has Ovechkin been as good as Crosby over the last two months? No

That's news to me. They both have 32 points since the begining of March. Sid has just turned it up a notch or two over the last month.

BigE said:
Was Ovechkin as good as Crosby over the first two months? No.

I don't disagree.


BigE said:
And when he wasn't as good people were making excuses or trying to discount Crosby's play so that they could bring the two on even footing. Sidney received no such treatment when Ovechkin was playing the role of dynamo in December and January.

How can you say that? Obviously, there's homers on both sides that will try to discredit the other's play - but, by and large, credit was given where credit was do. For the first 2 months Crosby was indeed the frontrunner for the Calder. If there was any backlash against Crosby, it wasn't due to his play but to his on-ice antics.

BigE said:
He's outplayed Sidney for portions of the season, but certainly nothing close to the entire year.

Of course - that's why its a close race. It's rediculous if your going by "Sid had a better statistical November and April" etc, etc. Bottom line, Ovechkin has had a better year as a whole, hence why he's the frontrunner for the Calder. It's not some sort of conspiracy. :shakehead

BigE said:
Funny how when Crosby was leading the race, stats didn't matter - and now even though Crosby is outplaying everyone in the league with the exception of Jaromir and Joe, totals are the be-all-end-all...just because everyone's favourite step-child is ahead. The hype machine decides a lot of these awards...don't fool yourself into thinking this is a landslide.


Again, your seeing things that aren't there; either that or you have some sort of Ovechkin paranoia. Crosby was the front runner early in the season, and he deserved it. But Ovechkin blew by him mid-year and Sid has been playing catch-up ever since. If anything, the hype should help Crosby...particularly in Canadian circles. Remember, Ovechkin was the selfish taunting Russian coming in this year.
Most knowledgable hockey fans agree that, up to this point, Ovechkin has had a better year; but Sid IS making it interesting with his recent play.
The winner will win because of his play, not because of some ridiculous preconceived PHWA backlash.
Kinda reminds me of what the Republicans are doing with Iraq. If things aren't going your way - blame the media. :biglaugh:
 
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JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,889
Porn* said:
without a doubt...


my list:

ovechkin
phaneuf
lundqvist
crosby
meszaros


Crosby 4th? He is going to be the youngest player to score 100 points and you don't even have him as top 3??? :dunno:
 

boredmale

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Jul 13, 2005
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JimEIV said:
Crosby 4th? He is going to be the youngest player to score 100 points and you don't even have him as top 3??? :dunno:

age shouldn't be a factor, that being said Crosby has had an amazing season, AO has just been slightly more amazing.
 

Porn*

Registered User
Mar 6, 2002
36,386
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In your nightmares
boredmale said:
age shouldn't be a factor, that being said Crosby has had an amazing season, AO has just been slightly more amazing.
right...


phaneuf has been WICKED as a rookie dman... which imho is harder to do than a forward.

lundqvist has helped carry his team to a) a playoff spot and a division leader.
 

RandomCanuckFan

Registered User
Jan 23, 2005
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Even if there could ever be co-winners of the Calder, this wouldn't be the year anyway IMO. Ovechkin has been the better player this year, so he should get it.
 

Burgh32

Registered User
Aug 15, 2005
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S.J
BigE said:
Crosby was the best rookie for the first two months, and he's been the best rookie since the break.


BigE said:
Has Ovechkin been as good as Crosby over the last two months? No. Was Ovechkin as good as Crosby over the first two months? No.

Actually, the only part of the season where Sid has *really* had the upper hand has been this month of April. Alex actually significantly outperformed Sid in March. Stat breakdown by month...

October
GP G A P
AO 11 8 5 13
SC 11 2 12 14

November
GP G A P
AO 13 7 5 12
SC 14 10 4 14

December
GP G A P
AO 12 8 11 19
SC 12 7 7 14

January
GP G A P
AO 14 11 10 21
SC 15 6 12 18

February
GP G A P
AO 6 3 2 5
SC 6 3 2 5

March
GP G A P
AO 15 11 13 24
SC 14 5 13 18

April
GP G A P
AO 7 2 6 8
SC 6 5 9 14
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
It is a five point difference people. In fact for much of the year it has hovered in that range. Ovechkin has held an edge but hardly anything to squawk about as some here are making it out to be. If Crosby catches him it should be no huge surprise considering how close that they have been all year. Should be, and yet judging from the reaction it would be as much of a shock to some of you as seeing a hen talk. It still is an unlikely thing but hardly impossible.
 

BigE

Registered User
Mar 12, 2004
4,476
0
New York, NY
Zine said:
How can you say that? Obviously, there's homers on both sides that will try to discredit the other's play - but, by and large, credit was given where credit was do. For the first 2 months Crosby was indeed the frontrunner for the Calder. If there was any backlash against Crosby, it wasn't due to his play but to his on-ice antics.

Tell me what the reaction would have been had Crosby been the one benched for excess shift lengths and cherry picking on the PK. It's not out of the question to say that the media is all over Crosby, and you don't have to be a genius (or a marketing major) to figure out that bad press gets better ratings than positive.


Of course - that's why its a close race. It's rediculous if your going by "Sid had a better statistical November and April" etc, etc. Bottom line, Ovechkin has had a better year as a whole, hence why he's the frontrunner for the Calder. It's not some sort of conspiracy.

You're not reading carefully enough. I'm not implying it's conspiracy, just rather ironic that those have built Crosby up are also the ones tearing him down. Perhaps you missed the part where I stated this race isn't as much of a landslide as some would like to believe.

I'm not disagreeing that he's had the better year as whole. I merely object to those that say he's far and away been better - that is simply not the truth, and it shows that you haven't been watching.

HF has this obsession with stats and highlight reels that I'll never understand. People watch the 10 pm Sportscentre and they think they know what's going on.


Again, your seeing things that aren't there; either that or you have some sort of Ovechkin paranoia. Crosby was the front runner early in the season, and he deserved it. But Ovechkin blew by him mid-year and Sid has been playing catch-up ever since. If anything, the hype should help Crosby...particularly in Canadian circles. Remember, Ovechkin was the selfish taunting Russian coming in this year.
Most knowledgable hockey fans agree that, up to this point, Ovechkin has had a better year; but Sid IS making it interesting with his recent play.

Where have I denied any of this? You're reading things that aren't there. Shadow boxing isn't going to help you make me look like a fool - quite the opposite really.

The winner will win because of his play, not because of some ridiculous preconceived PHWA backlash.

No? Clearly you're not a sociology major, nor a psychology understudy. Everyone questions a hypothesis such as this because few understand how they work. Forgive me for my arrogance, but THINK about it.

The two circles have been fighting for two years now, and the evil Canadian media built Sid up so much that the rest of the hockey world got sick of it (even to the point where Canadian fans were getting annoyed). That is the backlash right there; people are looking for any and every reason to justify their growing contempt for over-hyped, over-blown, over-exaggerated "next ones." Only Crosby and Ovechkin have turned out to be the real deal - no one expected both of them to be at the 90-100 pts mark. It's not so far fetched.


Kinda reminds me of what the Republicans are doing with Iraq. If things aren't going your way - blame the media. :biglaugh:

Sportscentre is the CNN of the professional sports world. "You heard it here, first." :D
 

BigE

Registered User
Mar 12, 2004
4,476
0
New York, NY
It's worth repeating, this isn't some "Rangers will win the lottery" conspiracy. It's just delving into the patterns of thought that are produced by society, and whether you can see it or not, the media plays a large role in the trends that develop.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,958
1,774
Rostov-on-Don
BigE said:
Tell me what the reaction would have been had Crosby been the one benched for excess shift lengths and cherry picking on the PK. It's not out of the question to say that the media is all over Crosby, and you don't have to be a genius (or a marketing major) to figure out that bad press gets better ratings than positive.

Who knows? Again you're just assuming that Crosby gets an exorbitant amount of bad press. Where's the proof? Where are all these reporters and articles blasting Crosby left and right? Are there some? - sure; but its not routine. Of course it's prevalent on this board - but it's not in the media.

IMO what's happening is that Ovechkin has stolen a lot of Crosby's press. This makes it look like the media is bowing down to Ovy and opposing Sid - where in reality, they've been introduced to somebody that is on Sid's level. It's only natural that this happen. Remeber, for every little insignificant thing the press praises Ovechkin for, the press was doing that exact same for Sid before Ovechkin arrived.

BigE said:
You're not reading carefully enough. I'm not implying it's conspiracy, just rather ironic that those have built Crosby up are also the ones tearing him down. Perhaps you missed the part where I stated this race isn't as much of a landslide as some would like to believe.

Nobody is tearing him down. See my reply above.

BigE said:
I'm not disagreeing that he's had the better year as whole. I merely object to those that say he's far and away been better - that is simply not the truth, and it shows that you haven't been watching.

HF has this obsession with stats and highlight reels that I'll never understand. People watch the 10 pm Sportscentre and they think they know what's going on..

I've never said Ovechkin has been far and away better. Other than that I'm in agreement with you.

BigE said:
No? Clearly you're not a sociology major, nor a psychology understudy. Everyone questions a hypothesis such as this because few understand how they work. Forgive me for my arrogance, but THINK about it.

The two circles have been fighting for two years now, and the evil Canadian media built Sid up so much that the rest of the hockey world got sick of it (even to the point where Canadian fans were getting annoyed). That is the backlash right there; people are looking for any and every reason to justify their growing contempt for over-hyped, over-blown, over-exaggerated "next ones." Only Crosby and Ovechkin have turned out to be the real deal - no one expected both of them to be at the 90-100 pts mark. It's not so far fetched.

There is no wide range backlash.
I'll say it again, Ovy has stolen Sid's spotlight and the focus of attention has been put more on Alex. After years of the press sniffing Crosby's butt as the 'next one', they've discovered someone Crosby's equal. It should come as no suprise that Ovechkin in receiving some of the same treatment/attention that Crosby did. It's far too apparent that many Crosby homers can't deal with this fact. They're excuse - the media is just hyping up Ovechkin because of this unwarrented backlash against Sid. Many can't stand the fact that Sid is not getting more attention. Ovechkin deserves all the press he gets. Next year the focus will be on Malkin, and it won't be due to a contemp for Ovechkin in the media.
 
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