Could the ECHL dig up old West Coast markets?

[GindyDraws]

With the recent news of the Flames moving the Stockton Heat to Calgary, which was one of the teams that spurned both the creation of the AHL's Pacific Division but also the elimination of the ECHL's West Coast presence, I do have to wonder if it is at all possible for the ECHL to consider going back to places like Stockton and Bakersfield and potentially try again with similarly sized markets with Fresno (which had the Falcons, who struggled with arena issues before folding mid-season) or Oakland (the Oakland Arena's gonna need tenants, though I don't know if the Oakland Arena still has a functioning ice plant). This could alleviate the travel issues that have been put upon Idaho and Utah for years since the shift, but it would financially strain teams that are in the eastern part of the country should odd scheduling force them westward, though the solution would easily be to just have the California teams play Idaho and Utah a lot, and maybe throw in Allen and Tulsa once in a while.

I don't see it happening, but that hasn't stopped people from trying, and realistically, the ECHL is the only league that would make sense from a financial standpoint.

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[Barclay Donaldson]

With the recent news of the Flames moving the Stockton Heat to Calgary, which was one of the teams that spurned both the creation of the AHL's Pacific Division but also the elimination of the ECHL's West Coast presence, I do have to wonder if it is at all possible for the ECHL to consider going back to places like Stockton and Bakersfield and potentially try again with similarly sized markets with Fresno (which had the Falcons, who struggled with arena issues before folding mid-season) or Oakland (the Oakland Arena's gonna need tenants, though I don't know if the Oakland Arena still has a functioning ice plant). This could alleviate the travel issues that have been put upon Idaho and Utah for years since the shift, but it would financially strain teams that are in the eastern part of the country should odd scheduling force them westward, though the solution would easily be to just have the California teams play Idaho and Utah a lot, and maybe throw in Allen and Tulsa once in a while.

I don't see it happening, but that hasn't stopped people from trying, and realistically, the ECHL is the only league that would make sense from a financial standpoint.

Given the current travel requirements, it would require an entire division. There are some open markets, but that doesn't mean a team will appear.

Stockton doesn't sound like they have a Plan B for getting hockey going again.
Reno has too many obstacles. The operators don't want to invest the money and effort required to add minor league hockey, the political climate is not ideal, and the necessary renovations are well into the 7 figures just to get the arena suitable for hockey. Reno Events Center
Fresno has similar operational and political issues with their only possible home. Vegas considered Fresno but it just isn't feasible to have a minor league hockey tenant there by all accounts, including Bill Foley's.
Bakersfield could open up if Edmonton chooses to move the Condors closer to home

I don't see any other viable markets at the moment.

What I do see is leagues like the NAHL making a push to add a west coast cities to satisfy what has been an open secret for some time now

 

[JMCx4]

Let us not forget ... the Western Professional Hockey League has been tailor made for just such market turmoil ...

 

[Atlantian]

I don’t know if it would require an entire new division. A west coast cluster of 3-4 teams could and would work with the current ECHL model as well as bring the league to 32 teams. Provided Stockton and Fresno are feasible (Fresno is questionable at best) there would need to be two more cities (Bakersfield?) in the SoCal/Central California region looking for hockey. I think it’s possible. Dean MacDonald could look to move Iowa out that way if/when they fail or bring a new expansion team because of how the NHL/AHL affiliations are out there already.

 

[mk80]

Its always possible, right now if Stockton was to come back in ECHL form they would have a lot of travel costs. There's some open markets, and arenas each with their own reasons for not having teams currently, but who knows how things change in the future and how hockey changes with it on the West Coast.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Let us not forget ... the Western Professional Hockey League has been tailor made for just such market turmoil ...

Time for me to dust off the ole wheels

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Let us not forget ... the Western Professional Hockey League has been tailor made for just such market turmoil ...

That article should be coming any day now, right @NJdangles99?

 

[PCSPounder]

Does seem like this move opens up an Edmonton move out of Bakersfield and makes at least an ECHL pairing out west palatable. Flights to Boise and Salt Lake aren’t that expensive, too.

Reno has been kind of fracked by the pandemic and the general state of gambling in Nevada. The odd result of that is that a good chunk of the old downtown casino establishment has gone or is going mixed-use RESIDENTIAL. That frankly blows my mind… and who knows if it will actually be successful. The remaining actual hotel on the old Harrah’s property (a lot of which is going apartment) already cross-promotes Reno Aces games. So it wouldn’t surprise me if someone revitalized an effort to bring hockey to Reno Events Center… if you can convince the remaining major downtown casino complex that operates that center to buy in. They may have to try. Not that it’s the way to bet, but it might solve a problem or two.

Mind you, there’s also enough land there for someone to restart the idea of copying Boise with a hotel/arena complex (THAT was somewhat close to being a thing 20 years ago).

 

[GindyDraws]

Might as well dig up this corpse now that Phoenix is hitching its wagon north to Utah, which is definitely going to displace the Grizzlies (who may stick around for a few years but likely will struggle with the finances of competition), and likely may see the Idaho Steelheads be moved to the AHL sometime in the future for... reasons.

Could the ECHL consider additional markets in the west in an attempt to provide additional goaltending resources?

 

[JMCx4]

... Could the ECHL consider additional markets in the west in an attempt to provide additional goaltending resources?

Seems like a very weak & unlikely motivation for The E' to expand. U.S. college hockey will continue to be a fertile farmland for quality goaltenders on an annual basis (via the NHL draft), and I'd expect more net talent from Europe to be available every year. On the other hand, complicating factors for the structure of a goalie pipeline to the pros would seem to include organizational shakeups in the CHL leagues and what the NHL is up to re. discussions about eliminating the EBUG option. But in the end, I don't think the ECHL would or should hitch their Zamboni to a westward re-expansion for the sole purpose of becoming the NHL's one-stop-shopping outlet for backups to the backup netminders.

 

[GindyDraws]

Seems like a very weak & unlikely motivation for The E' to expand. U.S. college hockey will continue to be a fertile farmland for quality goaltenders on an annual basis (via the NHL draft), and I'd expect more net talent from Europe to be available every year. On the other hand, complicating factors for the structure of a goalie pipeline to the pros would seem to include organizational shakeups in the CHL leagues and what the NHL is up to re. discussions about eliminating the EBUG option. But in the end, I don't think the ECHL would or should hitch their Zamboni to a westward re-expansion for the sole purpose of becoming the NHL's one-stop-shopping outlet for backups to the backup netminders.

True.

But expansion and relocation talk is always interesting if only it brings in the cranks.

 

[JMCx4]

True.

But expansion and relocation talk is always interesting if only it brings in the cranks.

So you're a Premature Silly Season (PSS) advocate, are you? "So let it be written, so let it be done."

 

[PCSPounder]

There’s a first question here. Do the Grizzlies remain in West Valley City? That current affiliation with Colorado now makes way less sense. Surely they could affiliate with the Coyotes, but what if they don’t?

Supposedly the Tucson AHL team will move into Mullet Arena. But will they maintain their affiliation with now Utah? Will Utah want their AHL team in Maverik? Coyotes ownership kind of has a responsibility to help keep Maverik operating given what will most surely be a new arena built for the Jazz, Coyotes… and the 2034 Olympics, which needs both and more.

If the E is out of Utah, Boise falls into a bit of a spot. While Tahoe isn’t too far away, definitely Boise begs for some local partners.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

There’s a first question here. Do the Grizzlies remain in West Valley City? That current affiliation with Colorado now makes way less sense. Surely they could affiliate with the Coyotes, but what if they don’t?

Supposedly the Tucson AHL team will move into Mullet Arena. But will they maintain their affiliation with now Utah? Will Utah want their AHL team in Maverik? Coyotes ownership kind of has a responsibility to help keep Maverik operating given what will most surely be a new arena built for the Jazz, Coyotes… and the 2034 Olympics, which needs both and more.

If the E is out of Utah, Boise falls into a bit of a spot. While Tahoe isn’t too far away, definitely Boise begs for some local partners.

IT IS the expectation that Tucson has the option to remain the affiliate of the Utah franchise formerly Arizona.... but it doesn't appear likely that Maverik will be any option or interest to SEG if it has been summarily rejected because SEG owns the Delta Center.... it's been done before w/ Arizona w/ an affiliate across the country before as has many of the NHL Pacific teams prior to 2014....

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

AM HEARING potentially Idaho Falls may be the next destination for the Utah Grizzlies now that the transfer seems to be approved of the transfer of Arizona to SEG; KSL is also reporting that it's up to the Elmore Sports Group but the intention is for now that hockey will remain in WVC... independent of affiliation or the presence of a NHL Team alongside the NBA Jazz

 

[SemireliableSource]

So that means it won't be Idaho Falls

 

[jabberoski]

Has

So that means it won't be Idaho Falls

Definitely. Has anything Hutch ever "heard" ever come true?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

AM HEARING potentially Idaho Falls may be the next destination for the Utah Grizzlies now that the transfer seems to be approved of the transfer of Arizona to SEG; KSL is also reporting that it's up to the Elmore Sports Group but the intention is for now that hockey will remain in WVC... independent of affiliation or the presence of a NHL Team alongside the NBA Jazz

We need a source for claims like this. "Am hearing" doesn't cut it.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

We need a source for claims like this. "Am hearing" doesn't cut it.

because it's up to the Elmore ownership....

 

[Bear of Bad News]

because it's up to the Elmore ownership....

We need a source other than “I heard”.

I’m not going to argue with you about it.