Could a Youth Academy System Work in the NHL?

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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Do you think a youth academy like what we see in European soccer and the MLS work in the NHL? The premise is somewhat simple, a team sets up a youth club system down from midgets to peewee or squirt or earlier. Once they reach their draft year, a team can sign a player from their academy without having their player go into the draft. This would encourage and give incentives to all teams in the NHL to invest in youth hockey in the area in order to acquire future players without the risk of losing them to the draft. It would also help increase hockey exposure to low income areas as teams have a financial and talent incentive to not just get players who can pay (like many youth hockey travel teams) but the best ones regardless of the kid's financial situation.

One potential problem could be that the Canadian teams in and northern US teams would have an immediate advantage due to hockey being more established there than in southern or western US teams. A way to counteract that would be to put a draft pick cost on each player a team signs from their academy (so one player = a 1st rounder, a 2nd player adds a 2nd or 3rd rounder to the cost).

Another potential problem would be what to do with the junior system. NHL teams could set up their own junior league or u-18 system within their geographic area or just join existing leagues through expansion. So Toronto's u-18 would join the OHL or Chicago's could join the USHL if the leagues allow it.

So thoughts and sorry in advance if this has already been discussed before?
 
Nov 15, 2010
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The league used to employ territorial rights instead of an entry draft. It didn't provide for much parity, and the similarities to what you suggest are quite real. Some teams are bleeding money, I cannot see them even employing an academy if this hypothetical became a reality.
 

oXo Cube

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Nov 4, 2008
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NA sports is actively striving to be less like European Soccer not more like it.

Even if you could convince the NHL that this model is a better approach at developing hockey talent(debatable), you would still have to convince it that the loss in parity is worth it(nope) and that the difference is great enough to justify investing millions of dollars into setting up and maintaining the programs(unlikely). The league is already on the hook for some of this cost of course, but you are asking for a fair bit more.

This would also destroy the current Major Junior leagues of the world and probably seriously damage the talent level in NCAA so I doubt you could get them on board either.

Just won't ever happen.
 
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Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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Seems like it would be easy to abuse the system. Someone looks like a phenom move them to your town.
 

McYoungGuns

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Jul 2, 2009
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The league used to employ territorial rights instead of an entry draft. It didn't provide for much parity, and the similarities to what you suggest are quite real. Some teams are bleeding money, I cannot see them even employing an academy if this hypothetical became a reality.

maybe those teams need to moved somewhere they can make money ?
 

Tatar Shots

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Feb 2, 2014
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No this is not possible in the NHL. There would be zero parity. Who would be in the youth academies out on the west coast or down south? Meanwhile 12 year old Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, etcetera are all in the Leafs' youth academy and bypassing the draft.
 

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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No this is not possible in the NHL. There would be zero parity. Who would be in the youth academies out on the west coast or down south? Meanwhile 12 year old Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, etcetera are all in the Leafs' youth academy and bypassing the draft.

Auston Matthews and Bobby Ryan would look pretty good in those western and southern youth academies. Those I see your point limiting how many players a team can sign each year plus a draft penalty would help limit the parity problems. Also a player doesn't have to sign with their academy team. This would in theory help disperse the talent out so a player like McDavid may not want to sign with a team that already has 2 1C in your example.

Also teams don't only have to get kids from their own close geographical area and can set up multiple ones in different locations like with Euro soccer in Latin America.
 

dwanmaster*

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No this is not possible in the NHL. There would be zero parity. Who would be in the youth academies out on the west coast or down south? Meanwhile 12 year old Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, etcetera are all in the Leafs' youth academy and bypassing the draft.

The top 2 picks in the 2016 draft
 

Soundgarden

#164303
Jul 22, 2008
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Spring Hill, TN
Maybe if they implemented it when the league was founded and heavily limit the number of players as the league grew? I mean it's a nice thought in theory, but like someone said there's potential for a monopoly especially in somewhere like Ontario if there isn't a cap off.

If each team had their own Chl team to use for prospects that might be close to what you're asking for, but again there would be problems and it would come down to a Chl draft.
 

Burke the Legend

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Feb 22, 2012
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The league used to employ territorial rights instead of an entry draft. It didn't provide for much parity, and the similarities to what you suggest are quite real. Some teams are bleeding money, I cannot see them even employing an academy if this hypothetical became a reality.

It wasn't territorial, but just pretty much anything goes including signing 13 year olds, buying junior teams, etc. When the system ended in favour of the draft and teams opened their books, it was found that Montreal's youth/junior system was as big as the other 5 teams combined.

In the end, this would decrease parity compared to scouting/drafting, so not really a NHL objective.
 

tsanuri

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Jun 27, 2012
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Anything that takes players out of the draft for a specific team that they are playing for at a young age is a bad idea. And by bad I mean one of the worst things that can happen in hockey.
 

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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Anything that takes players out of the draft for a specific team that they are playing for at a young age is a bad idea. And by bad I mean one of the worst things that can happen in hockey.

If the academy system just becomes a way for the bigger northern teams to horde talent and creates an NHL with the haves and have-nots then yes that's true. However, if the potential of getting a Matthews or Chychrun makes the Florida's and Arizona's actually develop and invest in youth hockey which can 1 help the team talent wise and 2 develop a bunch of new fans and interest in hockey for non-traditional markets then it can be a huge plus. These southern cities like Phoenix, Dallas, and St. Louis are not small cities by any means. Their metro area populations are 4.5 million, 6 million, and 2.75 million respectively. They don't lack the numbers to develop strong youth hockey but they do lack the investment in infrastructure, professional high-level coaching, and youth club programming that can all come with an academy system. The chance to receive top-level coaching and get an NHL contract could be the carrot on the stick to get more people to pick up hockey.

For those worrying that Toronto will just pick of the Connor McDavid's of the world when they turn 17, remember there are some simple ways to prevent this cherry-picking of junior and midget players. Just say that any player you sign during their draft year must have been with your academy for X #'s of years. If not they just enter the draft or you have to pay a higher draft pick cost to sign them. It's also not like every kid in the GTA or in Boston will drop everything to sign with their team's academy. They still have to actually develop these players well which isn't as simple as going to a Mississauga residential street and signing every squirt hockey player you find hoping they you get John Tavares and the Strome brothers. If you think its hard to coach and develop a guy to be an NHL player when they are 18-20, it's exponentially more difficult to do that for a 10-12 year old. There will be plenty of parents who decide maybe the Detroit or the Rangers or any team's academy is not for them and opt to play for a travel team instead even if that kid is a top-flight talent.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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I don't see what is gained for the NHL.

The draft does its job of making parity a possibility so long as teams scout and draft well enough. Teams can be at the bottom of the draft and make the playoffs the next season.

I don't know enough to know of there is an issue with player development, but the level of talent available seems pretty high. So I don't think a new system would help that. The big hurdle with Hockey is making the game available to the everyman at a young age and not just rich kids or small town rural kids.

The NHL is going to lose a lot of athletes in Canada to soccer and basketball.
 

SI90

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Jul 25, 2011
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Toronto woils have all the great players. And teams in areas like Nashville and Arizona would have hardly anythjng.
 

sayheykid

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Jun 12, 2010
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You know how every professional sports league wants to grow it's product? This would accomplish the exact opposite of that for the NHL in rather spectacular fashion.
 

rockhouse15

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Jul 23, 2011
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I don't see what is gained for the NHL.

The draft does its job of making parity a possibility so long as teams scout and draft well enough. Teams can be at the bottom of the draft and make the playoffs the next season.

I don't know enough to know of there is an issue with player development, but the level of talent available seems pretty high. So I don't think a new system would help that. The big hurdle with Hockey is making the game available to the everyman at a young age and not just rich kids or small town rural kids.

The NHL is going to lose a lot of athletes in Canada to soccer and basketball.

This is why I think an academy system can be helpful. Nearly all of the hockey travel teams in the US are a business that don't look to grow the game to where it is not but to do what is best for business. There's very little benefit in doing so. Why invest in hockey infrastructure or coaching in Arizona when there are less than 8,000 USA hockey players in the whole state compared to New York and Massachusetts who have 5 times that amount. However, the Coyotes have a financial incentive to invest in Arizona and South-West hockey both in adding talent to the NHL team and creating a bigger hockey culture in the region that a travel team can never have. They also have the incentive to find those talented player regardless of an ability to pay that travel teams don't have.
 

Tripod

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Aug 12, 2008
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Toronto woils have all the great players. And teams in areas like Nashville and Arizona would have hardly anythjng.

Yeah...all this does is help the biggest markets the most.

And fwiw, some people do give back to the community without looking to get anything back:

"Snider has committed $56 million more to operating its programs during the course of the 20-year agreement signed with the city."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=711498

It's a long read if have the time, but it shows another side of Snider that a lot of people might not know about.
 

rockhouse15

Registered User
Jul 23, 2011
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Yeah...all this does is help the biggest markets the most.

And fwiw, some people do give back to the community without looking to get anything back:

"Snider has committed $56 million more to operating its programs during the course of the 20-year agreement signed with the city."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=711498

It's a long read if have the time, but it shows another side of Snider that a lot of people might not know about.

I definitely agree people and teams will look to grow hockey in their area even without a direct incentive. The Islanders have a Junior Island youth hockey program as do many other NHL teams with no assurance that they will turn be able to keep these players if they turn pro. However, adding that incentive will only increase the investment that is already in place in some aspects.
 

Inkling

Same Old Hockey
Nov 27, 2006
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There would be nothing to prevent the southern teams from running academies in the north, in this system. They would be at no inherent disadvantage other than what their owners would be willing to invest.

I don't see this happening anytime soon but in the long long term, who knows? Things are cyclical and there's nothing saying the draft will last forever.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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This is why I think an academy system can be helpful. Nearly all of the hockey travel teams in the US are a business that don't look to grow the game to where it is not but to do what is best for business. There's very little benefit in doing so. Why invest in hockey infrastructure or coaching in Arizona when there are less than 8,000 USA hockey players in the whole state compared to New York and Massachusetts who have 5 times that amount. However, the Coyotes have a financial incentive to invest in Arizona and South-West hockey both in adding talent to the NHL team and creating a bigger hockey culture in the region that a travel team can never have. They also have the incentive to find those talented player regardless of an ability to pay that travel teams don't have.

I don't understand how an academy fixes that.

With Hockey, you have to start young to have a shot at making it to the CHL, let alone NHL.

It's basically impossible for a majority of kids to play hockey, unless someone came in and built 10x more rinks to lower the cost of ice time and also subsidized their travel+equipment. What you're talking about is getting people who are not in hockey for various reasons into hockey, not just helping out kids already playing.

Kids who have poor parents or parents who even make average income are locked out of hockey. I don't see how an academy can fix this.
 

Raspewtin

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May 30, 2013
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The idea would be terrible. North American Hockey needs to be as little like European Soccer as possible, except for some kind of UEFA CL hockey clone, cause that'd be dope.
 

rockhouse15

Registered User
Jul 23, 2011
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I don't understand how an academy fixes that.

With Hockey, you have to start young to have a shot at making it to the CHL, let alone NHL.

It's basically impossible for a majority of kids to play hockey, unless someone came in and built 10x more rinks to lower the cost of ice time and also subsidized their travel+equipment. What you're talking about is getting people who are not in hockey for various reasons into hockey, not just helping out kids already playing.

Kids who have poor parents or parents who even make average income are locked out of hockey. I don't see how an academy can fix this.

At a young level, the cost of hockey can be significantly lower than later on into bantam and midgets for kids who want to play at a high level. But elite travel teams, top-level equipment, summer camps, and a bunch of other things needed to develop at the highest level start to become overly expensive for many families with high potential players. They end up leaving hockey all together or never develop with the rest of their peers.

We already have this kind of academy in hockey its just in Ann Arbor with the USNTP and is not affiliated with a pro-team but the national team. What an NHL academy can potentially do is help those players in hockey by supporting their play and development through that crucial time. It also can serve as a carrot for lower-income families that their kid can join one of these academies and get a similar level of training as an elite high-priced travel team.
 

rockhouse15

Registered User
Jul 23, 2011
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0
The draft is good. A academy system that teams have rights to someone based on geography sucks.

Really because Barcelona is 6,500 miles from Messi's hometown yet they still had his rights from the Barcelona academy. Teams don't only have to get players from X numbers of miles away and can have multiple academies in different locations.
 

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