Cory Schneider

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by LeftCoast, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. LeftCoast

    LeftCoast Registered User

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    So the Canucks are drafting 25th then again 33rd and they are dangling Cory Schneider looking to either move up in the first round or for an equal value forward prospect.

    What would you offer?
     
  2. PanthersRule96

    PanthersRule96 Registered User

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    Even though we're probably goign to stay away from trades with Vancouver at least until Luongo retires:

    To Vancouver: #10 overall Pick
    To Florida: #25 overall, Cory Schneider

    I don't really know Schneider's value that much but what else would Florida have to throw into that deal to make something like that work?
     
  3. skg

    skg Registered User

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    IMO, giving up Schneider just to move up in this year's draft is not a good idea, unless you're picking in the top five. There seems to be a higher amount of players who have bust potential. In a few years, this draft is going to make a lot of GMs look bad. Giving up a legitimate prospect like Schneider isn't worth it.
     
  4. buddahsmoka1

    buddahsmoka1 Registered User

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    Why dont they try and get Schnieder into the backup role for the big club?
     
  5. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    Playing 10-15 games tops is not good for a young goaltenders' development. Schneider needs to be playing 50+ games in the AHL to develop the best.

    As for the Florida offer, I probably wouldn't take it. Moving up into the 10th spot isn't worth giving up Schneider for. After the first 6 picks or so the draft kind of tails off and there isn't too much difference between the 10th and 25th picks.
     
  6. le_sean

    le_sean Registered User

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    I think the Canucks would be better off giving Schneider another year to prove to people what he can do, maybe give him a game or two in the NHL, and then dangle him in the better draft, 2008.
     
  7. synobyte

    synobyte Canucks Cultist

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    schneider will be playing in manitoba next season, nonis ISNT going to move him.
    but he could possibly be dangling a defenseman like Edler or Juice out there.
    the canucks would have to overpay by alot to move into the top ten in this draft which is pretty weak.
    im happy with the 25th and 33rd selections, top ten dosent mean an top calibre player.
     
  8. LeftCoast

    LeftCoast Registered User

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    That doesn't sound all that bad. A #10 pick could net a player such as Eller, Backlund, Hamil or even Gagner. If it needs something coming back to Vancouver to balance the trade, we have no 3rd round pick so we could send you the rights to Koltsov for a 3rd rounder. If Koltsov decides to come to the US, you score one of the top defensemen in the RSL for a 3rd round pick. If not, you get a top goalie prosepect and still have a #25 pick.

    Cory Schneider is not likely to ever play in Vancouver. Loungo has 3 years left on his initial contract, and short of a major falling out with the team, injury or a decline in his level of play to mere mortal status, the team will likely re-sign or extend his contract.

    Schneider is a very good young goal tender. As far as prospects go, he is in the same class as Price, Rask, Montoya and Howard ( maybe slighly below these, but until he is tested in the AHL we won't really know). If he turns pro this year (there is some doubt over this) he will need at least a year in the AHL to prove himself and then he needs to be in a position where he can start as a backup and work his way into a starting NHL position. That is not likely to happen in Vancouver. Luongo likes to play 65 to 70 games a year.

    Additionally, Schneider's first contract will be a 2 year entry contract - then he becomes a free agent. There is no way the Canucks could keep him with Luongo playing in front of him.
     
  9. monster_bertuzzi

    monster_bertuzzi registered user

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    I would take a lot to pry Bieksa at this point.
     
  10. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    I think there are some teams out there that would pay the price to land Bieksa. Really, I think Nonis may be shopping Bieksa because his trade value is at an all-time high, he's eligible for UFA after next season, the Canucks have great depth on defense throughout their system and after one great season, it may be difficult for Bieksa to top that. I still think he'll be a solid defenseman, but I think a lot of posters feel that Bieksa will continue his amazing development and will be a a stud #1/2 defenseman, I think that's very much up in the air. If Nonis could move Bieksa for a young, stud forward, I think he would seriously consider it.
     
  11. Bobby39

    Bobby39 Registered User

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    Schneider will sign a 3 year, as he will only be 21....and he is coming out according to the good folks at Boston College....
     
  12. OMoT

    OMoT Registered User

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    theres no way vancouver would trade schneider for this years draft. Giving him an AHL contract would allow him to step into a starter's role if Luongo sucks down the road, and if Schneider ends up being as good as people say he will, then most teams would trade a very good prospect for him to come in.
     
  13. HatTrick Swayze

    HatTrick Swayze Just Be Nice Sponsor

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    Here's a good article on Schneider:
    http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/05/25/schneider_weighing_options/

    In it, he says he's 50-50 right now. I think losing the last 2 NC games, as well as Vancouver's goalie situation has really made him consider staying for his senior year. However, if he gets traded I'm sure he will most likely leave.
     
  14. LeftCoast

    LeftCoast Registered User

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    It's not like Luongo just had one good year (Jose Theodore anyone?), he has been consistently outstanding at every level. He is one of the league's premier goalies and is in the prime of his career. If you look at elite goalies, many (Roy, Hasek, Fuhr, Belfour, Brodeur etc.) have played at a high level well into their late 30's or even 40's. Luongo is 7 years younger than Brodeur - there is no reason to think he will not continue to play at a high level for at least as long.

    The goalies who went from "elite" to "sucks" very rapidly mostly happened in the mid to late '90s when the goalie equipment and technique/styles changed. Many of the "stand up" style goalies did not adapt well (in comparison) to the lighter and larger equipment that favoured the more athletic butterfly and hybrid style goalies.

    The biggest thing probably influencing Schneider's decision to turn pro is his position in the organization. As long as he is healthy, and the Canucks treat him right, Luongo is going to play 65+ games a year. At $6.75M per year, the Canucks simply can not dedicate cap space to a backup goalie at much more than the vetran minimum. Corey is going to earn the rookie max when he comes to the NHL. The Canucks can't affort this. It is also not good for Cory's development to play 10 to 12 games a year as a backup. If he does in the AHL what he did in the NCAA, he will be ready for the NHL in 1 - 2 years.

    While Schneider's trade value might improve with a year in the AHL - it might also go down. It's a big jump to the AHL. I think Schneider will do well, but how high can his value really go? He is already recognized as one of the top 5 or so goalie prospects in the world.

    Every year, there are only a select number of teams that need a blue chip goalie prospect. Cory needs to go to a team that is rebuilding and has a veteran goalie who is less than spectacular, but is able to play 30 - 45 games per year. Teams such as LA, Phoenix, Florida, Washington etc. come to mind.
     
  15. SPG

    SPG Registered User

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    This would be a good year for Vancouver to look for a deal at the draft for Schneider. With a weaker crop of goaltenders (by that I mean no sure 1st round picks - no Montoya, Bernier, Price type - athough there is a solid group slated to go in the 2nd-3rd), a team that is in need of a goalie of the future type will probably be willing to step up and give good value for Schneider. Especially considering the fact that has a couple good years of development under his belt after being drafted.
     
  16. Blane Youngblood

    Blane Youngblood Registered User

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    There is no way the Canucks trade Schneider + their first for the 10th overall. I think that Schneider is better then the 10th overall pick this year and would probably go top 5 if he was put back into the draft. Trading Schneider for anything less then an NHL ready forward would be silly for the Canucks.
     
  17. Amadeus

    Amadeus Stand Witness

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    He's also unproven at the big league so that takes away the option.
     
  18. Danrik

    Danrik It is what it is.

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    To FLA: Schneider + Bieksa + 2nd Rounder (33)
    To VAN: Horton

    Akthough I doubt Florida would want to part with Horton. I don't really want to trade Bieksa but it's possible he's peaked and he will be UFA after this season.
     
  19. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    If Schneider returns to BC they become a preseason favourite to win the NCAA championship. Schneider has been there twice already and what he has said thus far puts the NCAA championship under the heading of unfinished business. Under the heading of unfinished business may also be his desire to get his degree as he has placed that amongst his priorities.

    He does not lose much if he elects to return to BC for his final season. He was already an invitee to the US World Championship team the last two years so rather than playing in the AHL (assuming the Moose make the playoffs next season, he could go to the WC next year (held in Canada Halifax and Quebec) and then wait for his UFA date.

    Because of his age if he signs with the THIS offseason he gets a three year entry level deal and plays for a minor league salary in the AHL or ECHL.

    If he waits and signs a deal with the Canucks next year or goes as free agent next off-season he signs a two year entry level deal due to his age. Thus he is not losing any time in coming off an entry level deal.

    Basically he forgoes a minor league salary (about $68,000) and postpones his signing bonus for a year. As far as EL signing bonuses the Canucks have not been maxing them out in any event recently.

    Signing in Vancouver puts him behind Luongo and given that Luongo is signed for the next three years the chances of Schneider even being in a position to earn any of his entry level performance bonuses in the NHL (and that is where the money is - not a signing bonus) under his initial contract fall in the range of slim and none.

    As a free agent he has his choice of 30 teams and he can choose a team that does not have an all-world goalie ahead of him on the depth chart who considers taking a game off akin to contracting bubonic plague.

    Those are the factors he has to weigh in his decision to:
    turn pro now with the Canucks,
    turn pro next offseason and sign with the Canucks, or
    complete his senior year and wait for free agency.

    If he goes back to BC, I do not see any real upside to him signing a contract before his UFA kicks in.

    In my assessment if he does not turn pro this offseason he will be elect UFA. In that case Vancouver will get a second round compensatory pick unless they can move him. And he would be a massively devalued asset (See Umberger, RJ) as he would be an asset who simply waits a couple of months and tests the free agent market.

    The other option possibly is for Nonis to sound out Schneider (or his family advisor Brian Lawton) on where Schneider might like to go and then work out a "sign and trade" deal with one of those teams. That would give that team the chance to land Schneider without competing with 29 other teams next year in a free agent sweepstakes. That could possibly enhance Schneider's asset value for the Canucks.

    As far as I can determine those are the options facing the Canucks and Schneider... and it is wholly in Schneider's hands.
     
  20. rt

    rt DingDongTippIsGone! Sponsor

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    I'd be thrilled if Phoenix could acquire Schneider for the 21st. I'm not so sure Canucks fans would be thrilled, at all, though.
     
  21. veronesepk

    veronesepk Registered User

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    Agreed - if Schneider leaves Vancouver in a trade akin to this, I'll be shocked.
     
  22. Amadeus

    Amadeus Stand Witness

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    Look guys, its about one's career. Sure, he considers himself in no position to be ASKING for a trade at this point in his career, being a prospect and all, but it will always be an option in his heart. He will want out sooner or later.

    He is one of the best goaltending prospects, and could garner a good return in the form of either an equally valuable prospect, or a comparatively higher draft pick.

    I made a proposal about him coming to Toronto because I felt goaltending is something you can not have enough of in your system. That is probably only in the case of you having somewhat of questionable goaltending with your big club.

    Toronto has Justin Pogge, who may be or may not be a better prospect than Schneider. Adding him will only increase their chances of having a legitamate goaltender in the future.

    My proposal of 13th overall, Ian White/Matt Stajan, 3rd in 07 is still valid for Corey Schneider + 2nd in 07.
     
  23. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    He will not be going back in the draft. If he returns to Boston College for his senior year, he becomes UFA on 15 August 2008 without having to miss any hockey and he then has he choice of 30 teams. He will not be limited to just negotiating with the Canucks.

    In that case the Canucks receive a compensatory second rounder (#56 overall).

    You have to factor this into his value as an asset.
     
  24. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    An unsigned Schneider I would trade for the 21st. A signed Schneider I would not.
     
  25. Blane Youngblood

    Blane Youngblood Registered User

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    Why would you think like that? Because he will be a UFA in a little over a year if we don't sign him? Maybe we should trade all our unsigned prospects because we could lose them in a year or two if they are not signed. Hell, let's get rid of our RFAs who become UFAs next year as well...you know just in case. :sarcasm:

    Schneider would be a top 10, potential top 5 pick in this year's draft (and no I didn't say he would go back into the draft this is just a pretend scenario) why would you trade him for the 21st? Worried he won't sign here? Anyone you may draft might not sign. Cory and his advisors have never said he wouldn't be willing to sign here and speculation is even if he does play his senior year he would be loyal to the team that drafted him.
     

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