Constructive Criticism of Peter Chiarelli

[McDrai]

Thread speaks for itself. To me he is a mixed bag. Some good moves and some not so good moves. However it seems over the past year or so it has been moreso the latter. And the recent performance of the team does not help

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[redgrant]

Seems only fair as we got a praise thread about him.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Last off-season he actually made some ballsy moves to upgrade the roster, especially the defense.

This year he downgraded the forwards and called it a day. Baffling.

 

[KCC]

He’s going the Pittsburgh model and is hoping players step up to make up for the big signings. The problem is no one is right now and it is really shedding light on the potential serious long term problem with the team.

 

[oXo Cube]

I give him credit for having vision. He has a long term goal for a team he wants to build and has worked towards that the entire way, even when that required some unpopular decisions.

I have significant issues with his performance as a negotiator, both against opposing GMs and player agents. You can only lose so many trades and give out so many questionable contracts before these things come back to haunt you.

 

[Faelko]

I’m in the pro-Chiarelli group but here’s my criticisms.

1. Reinhart deal was awful, I understood it at the time (even though I had no idea why we needed to add a 2nd) but time is proving it to be a truly terrible deal.

2. Not somehow trying to make the Eberle for Hamonic swap. I realize it’s hard to criticize trades that weren’t made since we don’t know all the moving parts but the simple fact that the Islanders wanted Eberle and wanted to move Hamonic makes me think there’s a deal there somewhere.

3. That Russell extension. Don’t mind the player but if he’s getting NMC’s included, the salary hit needed to be less. Seemed like a panic move based on Sekera’s injury.

The rest of his moves (IMO) are either wins or not a big enough deal to complain about.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I’m in the pro-Chiarelli group but here’s my criticisms.

1. Reinhart deal was awful, I understood it at the time (even though I had no idea why we needed to add a 2nd) but time is proving it to be a truly terrible deal.

2. Not somehow trying to make the Eberle for Hamonic swap. I realize it’s hard to criticize trades that weren’t made since we don’t know all the moving parts but the simple fact that the Islanders wanted Eberle and wanted to move Hamonic makes me think there’s a deal there somewhere.

3. That Russell extension. Don’t mind the player but if he’s getting NMC’s included, the salary hit needed to be less. Seemed like a panic move based on Sekera’s injury.

The rest of his moves (IMO) are either wins or not a big enough deal to complain about.

I agree with #1...worst trade he made, loathed is then and it looks worse now...

NYI got a significantly better return for Hamonic with the draft picks...no chance they take Ebs for Hamonic

the Russell extension was 2 years too long

 

[Canovin]

Chia with his Tambellini-like offseason on a crucial year is my complaint about him

 

[Aerchon]

More good than bad overall. I'm really not sure how anyone can argue that point.

As everyone knows he does pay his key/core players too much. However I think it is very important to note he is typically very astute at picking the right core players to overpay.

EDIT: Not sure I can follow the logic of those saying he didn't make enough moves this summer.

We had a great year last year and he made as few changes as possible to keep that together... We have no cap space next year so his only possible moves this year are 1 year rentals...

Sekera being injured is the biggest concern for the club has roster wise and 5.5 million dollar guys are impossible to replace just for an injury. Our RW is weak but that also where our prospect pool is strongest...

 

[Faelko]

I agree with #1...worst trade he made, loathed is then and it looks worse now...

NYI got a significantly better return for Hamonic with the draft picks...no chance they take Ebs for Hamonic

the Russell extension was 2 years too long

Yeah, I realize that deal never would’ve been straight up. That’s why it’s hard to criticize it too much, for all I know the add could’ve still been 2 1st rounders. It’s just frustrating knowing that we needed a 2RHD and couldn’t close the deal.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He’s going the Pittsburgh model and is hoping players step up to make up for the big signings. The problem is no one is right now and it is really shedding light on the potential serious long term problem with the team.

First, I want to thank McDrai for making this thread, it is really appreciated.

I don't agree with this post. Chia has gone more with a Boston or LA type model of physical play and bringing in physical players. But he doesn't have the elite defenceman that either of those clubs has.

I actually think Chia moved us AWAY from the successful Pittsburgh model. Pittsburgh core is built on Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and with lines structured around that. Those are their elite players and spacing them out in the lineup results in balanced scoring and that each can drive a line. Pittsburgh does not have an elite D, they have D by committee and they also play team D through puck possession. Their goal is to have the puck as much as possible, its how they win.

We formerly had 3 such offensive drivers in McD, Drai, Hall, now, no thanks to Chia, we have two. That boat has sailed and it isn't coming back. Its underestimated how much of an impact it is when you lose one player that can drive a line like Hall. Ultimately it meant production regression in players like Eberle and Nuge as well who both had their halcyon years with Hall. Lucic hasn't really replaced that and Lucic is not a driver of offense. Lucic actually has most of his goals here on PP with McDavid. He's struggled to produce at evens.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

First, I want to thank McDrai for making this thread, it is really appreciated.

I don't agree with this post. Chia has gone more with a Boston or LA type model of physical play and bringing in physical players. But he doesn't have the elite defenceman that either of those clubs has.

I actually think Chia moved us AWAY from the successful Pittsburgh model. Pittsburgh core is built on Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and with lines structured around that. Those are their elite players and spacing them out in the lineup results in balanced scoring and that each can drive a line. Pittsburgh does not have an elite D, they have D by committee and they also play team D through puck possession. Their goal is to have the puck as much as possible, its how they win.

We formerly had 3 such offensive drivers in McD, Drai, Hall, now, no thanks to Chia, we have two. That boat has sailed and it isn't coming back. Its underestimated how much of an impact it is when you lose one player that can drive a line like Hall. Ultimately it meant production regression in players like Eberle and Nuge as well who both had their halcyon years with Hall. Lucic hasn't really replaced that and Lucic is not a driver of offense. Lucic actually has most of his goals here on PP with McDavid. He's struggled to produce at evens.

Kessel>>> Hall in every possible way

 

[Drivesaitl]

More good than bad overall. I'm really not sure how anyone can argue that point.

As everyone knows he does pay his key/core players too much. However I think it is very important to note he is typically very astute at picking the right core players to overpay.

EDIT: Not sure I can follow the logic of those saying he didn't make enough moves this summer.

We had a great year last year and he made as few changes as possible to keep that together... We have no cap space next year so his only possible moves this year are 1 year rentals...

Sekera being injured is the biggest concern for the club has roster wise and 5.5 million dollar guys are impossible to replace just for an injury. Our RW is weak but that also where our prospect pool is strongest...

It depends who you include in Chia's body of work. I don't give him credit for McD, obviously, that was just good fortune. I don't give him credit for Talbot who was an org gift from Sather, I don't give him credit For Draisaitl who was a 2014 pick. I certainly don't give him credit for acquiring Lucic which is already a bad and underwhelming contract.
Nor do I like the Hall for Larsson trade with no disrespect meant to Larsson.

So we're left with Chia's value additions. Of these Maroon and Kassian would be the best. Maroon, for me, was an easy decision and I knew he would excel here. It was a fortunate bit of serendipity in that Anaheim somehow didn't realize what they had. Good for Chia though to pick up on it, it was his best move.

Theres been misses. Nillson in net, Reinhart, relying on Talbot too much and never getting a backup.

I don't like the Pulju pick.

I think overall the ones that worked as additions are Maroon, Kassian, Letestu. Other than that theres just been a lot of lateral fill (if that) and continues to be. This offseason was very bad on a departure acquisition basis.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kessel>>> Hall in every possible way

and yet when Hall was an Oiler this whole board, and maybe including you would be saying different. Hall has been in the topten in scoring multiple times. He's no slouch.

Hey I remember this board regularly mocking everything about Kessel and slamming his play before he got to the Pens and got the cups. There's some revisionism going on.

 

[LTIR]

Chia is not getting full value for his assets but is still doing a good job building a contender.
At worst he will be forced to walk away from Strome AND Maroon after this season but thats fine.

picks > Reinhart > lost to expansion draft
Hall > Larsson
Davidson > Desharnais > nothing after being somewhat useful in playoffs
Eberle > Strome > much needed cap savings after this season

long term build is still on the up . Nurse,Sekera, Klefbom, Larsson, Russell on D.
McD, Drai, Yama, Lucic, Kassian possibly RNH\Pulju up front.

 

[McDNicks17]

He was banking on the defense being fine until Sekera was healthy and that kind of blew up in his face.

I don't think any of us expected Klefbom and Benning to completely forget how to play hockey, so I don't think you can really blame him too much for that.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

and yet when Hall was an Oiler this whole board, and maybe including you would be saying different. Hall has been in the topten in scoring multiple times. He's no slouch.

Hey I remember this board regularly mocking everything about Kessel and slamming his play before he got to the Pens and got the cups. There's some revisionism going on.

Kessel scored a lot on a poor Toronto team

Hall never reached 30 goals...its not close

 

[McNuge]

First, I want to thank McDrai for making this thread, it is really appreciated.

I don't agree with this post. Chia has gone more with a Boston or LA type model of physical play and bringing in physical players. But he doesn't have the elite defenceman that either of those clubs has.

I actually think Chia moved us AWAY from the successful Pittsburgh model. Pittsburgh core is built on Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and with lines structured around that. Those are their elite players and spacing them out in the lineup results in balanced scoring and that each can drive a line. Pittsburgh does not have an elite D, they have D by committee and they also play team D through puck possession. Their goal is to have the puck as much as possible, its how they win.

We formerly had 3 such offensive drivers in McD, Drai, Hall, now, no thanks to Chia, we have two. That boat has sailed and it isn't coming back. Its underestimated how much of an impact it is when you lose one player that can drive a line like Hall. Ultimately it meant production regression in players like Eberle and Nuge as well who both had their halcyon years with Hall. Lucic hasn't really replaced that and Lucic is not a driver of offense. Lucic actually has most of his goals here on PP with McDavid. He's struggled to produce at evens.

Letang is an elite D, Drai is not the caliber of player Malkin is, and Kessel is a better player and driver than Hall. So no we really never had the Pitts Model but neither has any other team in the league. The only thing that is close is McDavid and Crosby.

The team has played like crap by committee, from top to bottom they have all been disappointing outside of maybe Talbot in the last 3 games. I think their "chances to win the cup" before the start of the season inflated their ego. They thought they were better than they were and it has showed. Time to get some heads out of some asses and get back to what made them so good last year. Everyone needs to step it up, McDavid included. Last year we would see like 5 break aways per game from him, this year it has been like 1 or 2.

 

[GMofOilers]

Another crow eating thread for the off season.

Keep em coming

 

[Drivesaitl]

Letang is an elite D, Drai is not the caliber of player Malkin is, and Kessel is a better player and driver than Hall. So no we really never had the Pitts Model but neither has any other team in the league. The only thing that is close is McDavid and Crosby.

The team has played like crap by committee, from top to bottom they have all been disappointing outside of maybe Talbot in the last 3 games. I think their "chances to win the cup" before the start of the season inflated their ego. They thought they were better than they were and it has showed. Time to get some heads out of some asses and get back to what made them so good last year. Everyone needs to step it up, McDavid included. Last year we would see like 5 break aways per game from him, this year it has been like 1 or 2.

Theres ample debate on Letang because he's not really a shutdown D, he's not the typical size of one. He's offensive oriented. Really if we're calling him elite than Gogetmeabeer in Philly is one. Plus that Pens won the cup entirely without him. They advanced throughout the playoffs without Letang and so you can't say he's a requirement to their SC.

I agree that the Oilers ego may have been pumped by some of those oddsmakers. I groaned when I saw some of that.

 

[redgrant]

My biggest gripe with Chiarelli is his failure to win meaningful trades.

Lets say Boston was out to get him and didnt want to help with Hamilton. Ok then but still:

Couldnt he give up future draft picks for Hamonic?
Couldnt he get Demers for a prospect?
Couldnt he get Hjalmarsson for a prospect?
Couldnt he get Methot for a prospect?

Yes Chia defenders im sure those would all have been awful trades. It was much better to get Kris Russell for FOUR years and unable to trade him.

Apparently hes the only GM that when hes acquiring a dman the cost is either 2 first round picks or a first line winger.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kessel scored a lot on a poor Toronto team

Hall never reached 30 goals...its not close

Prefacing with Kessel played on a poor team seems rather a poor point when Taylor Hall played on a worse team every season of his entire career..

In terms of goal scoring Kessel has had higher season totals but again Hall no slouch scoring 26 or more goals 3 times in his career which is still going on and which could still see his peak. With Kessel we know his peak.

You don't mention that Hall rate of assists and Pts is higher than kessel or that Hall had 53 assists one year, making him an elite playmaker, and more than Kessel has ever had.

Nor do you mention that of the two Hall has actually climbed above PPG twice. Kessel has done it once. Again Kessel has had a lot more years in the sample in which to break PPG.

lets look at career rates

GPG Kessel .355 Hall .331 (win Kessel)
APG Kessel .427 Hall .514 (win Hall)
OOG Kessel .780 Hall .845 (win Hall)

your "its not even close", not withstanding.

Finally, to add to this Hall has NEVER had the benefit of playing with an actual PMD to assist with his scoring or pt totals. Kessel has been respectively blessed in this regard. Hall has had to make a living on winning pucks banged off of boards.

 

[Canovin]

Trading away Seguin really didn't do Chia any favors. I think that was the start of it all. Chia would pay any price if he got desperate and GMs started taking notes.
That's probably his reputation around the league. The GM that will overpay if you play the waiting game

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Another crow eating thread for the off season.

Keep em coming

to be fair, this is a constructive criticism thread cause Chia has some bad moves as well

 

[Aerchon]

It depends who you include in Chia's body of work. I don't give him credit for McD, obviously, that was just good fortune. I don't give him credit for Talbot who was an org gift from Sather, I don't give him credit For Draisaitl who was a 2014 pick. I certainly don't give him credit for acquiring Lucic which is already a bad and underwhelming contract.
Nor do I like the Hall for Larsson trade with no disrespect meant to Larsson.

So we're left with Chia's value additions. Of these Maroon and Kassian would be the best. Maroon, for me, was an easy decision and I knew he would excel here. It was a fortunate bit of serendipity in that Anaheim somehow didn't realize what they had. Good for Chia though to pick up on it, it was his best move.

Theres been misses. Nillson in net, Reinhart, relying on Talbot too much and never getting a backup.

I don't like the Pulju pick.

I think overall the ones that worked as additions are Maroon, Kassian, Letestu. Other than that theres just been a lot of lateral fill (if that) and continues to be. This offseason was very bad on a departure acquisition basis.

No credit for McDavid... sure, makes sense. No credit for Talbot... wait what? You already lost me. You actually think Sather KNEW Talbot would be a great starter for Edmonton and decided to "give" him to Edmonton... No offense man but unless there is a quote of him saying that what he did, and where he isn't joking, this statement is crazy.

The way Chiarelli & McLellan handled/developed both McDavid and Leon has to be part of their evaluation.

Hall was my favorite player and still can't believe anyone wouldn't redo that trade over and over and over again. It was a slightly lesser player, who played a much more significant position, on a much better contract for a slightly greater player, who played the least important position in hockey, with attitude issues that after year one looks like a slam dunk in favor of Chiarelli. Oh and it filled Edmontons biggest need on the club.

Your seem to be downplaying the Maroon signing by stating the bolded (see above) for no real reason.

Nillson was great while Talbot struggled 2 years ago, is currently doing well, and IMO is a better back-up than LB. I think you might be thinking of The Monster Gustavsson. That was a Chiarelli mistake.

Reinhart is a disaster but, as he repeatedly said at and around the draft, he relied heavily on his people for that trade.

The Pulju pick was a no brainer. 99% of the greatest hockey minds would have selected him there.

Lucic and Sekera IMO were solid RFA acquisitions. His drafting solid so far. The Eberle trade decent under the circumstances...

I don't like how much he paid McDavid and Leon. I would have preferred if he could have somehow got Harmonic instead of signing Russell. Gus and Reinhart were bad. I would have loved it if he could have kept Pitlick. Some really inconsequential stuff in comparison to his good deals IMO.

There is a reason he got nominated for GM of the year. He completely rebuilt the team from a dumpster fire to a team that "should" have made the conference finals.