Prospect Info: Congrats to Kyrou on OHL Player of the year

[Itsnotatrap]

I just have to see how Kyrou adapts after playing against men before actively entertaining the idea of dealing him. There’s just too much of a chance of breaking through into a high strata, and has so many of the elements we need to get on our team.

If someone would pay a steep premium to pry him loose now, maybe, but the skill is undoubtedly there. I think that means Kyrou will retain a good bit of his trade value through to the deadline and into next offseason if he is slow to sand out the rough edges to his game.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

And candidly, while there is no appetite for another playoff miss, and for good reason, there is also so much dead money/question marks. We won’t be able to shake free of all of them (injured left side D, higher dollar 3rd liners, goaltending) this summer.

We’re in weird spot this year, and to me that is an argument against dealing the type of prospect like Kyrou, especially. Prospects more broadly, not so much. Kyrou, especially, I don’t see the urgency of moving him off without getting the fuller evaluation of where his game settles without someone REALLY making it worth our while.

 

[Brian39]

And candidly, while there is no appetite for another playoff miss, and for good reason, there is also so much dead money/question marks. We won’t be able to shake free of all of them (injured left side D, higher dollar 3rd liners, goaltending) this summer.

We’re in weird spot this year, and to me that is an argument against dealing the type of prospect like Kyrou, especially. Prospects more broadly, not so much. Kyrou, especially, I don’t see the urgency of moving him off without getting the fuller evaluation of where his game settles without someone REALLY making it worth our while.

Agreed. Assuming we don't land Tavares, I don't think this team is a Cup contender next year. The right moves make us a playoff team again, but not one with a good chance of winning 4 rounds. Let's say we trade Kyrou for Hoffman and get a center like Bozak as a UFA. I don't think that gives us a great chance at winning a Cup, so suddenly you either have to re-sign Hoffman to make the trade at all worthwhile or you have to go all in on 2019/20 in the last year of Hoffman's deal. That just doesn't make sense to me. I think our window is more like 2-5 years at the moment and could only get accelerated to next year if you win the Tavares sweepstakes.

That's a huge reason why I'm not interested in trading Kyrou for help on the wing. This is not the summer to move high value assets for short term help.

 

[Dbrownss]

So would everybody. Who is going to trade a top 6 player for 2-3 guys "known to be bottom 6". That doesn't describe any of our trade chips, not Thompson, our first or even a guy like Sanford. None of them are "known" to be bottom 6 as they aren't done developing. Nobody is trading a top 6 player for Jaskin, Sobotka and Sunqvist.

I don't advocate trading Kyrou either, but you have to give to get. If the right deal comes along, in my mind, he should be traded. Try to trade Thompson, the 1st etc first though.

That applies to anyone though. I wouldn't "settle" in trading Kyrou. It's got to be a player that knocks our socks off. Same with Thomas, someone wants to trade the Blues a RHS 1C in his 20s....bye singer from matchbox 20

 

[Ranksu]

Agreed. Assuming we don't land Tavares, I don't think this team is a Cup contender next year. The right moves make us a playoff team again, but not one with a good chance of winning 4 rounds. Let's say we trade Kyrou for Hoffman and get a center like Bozak as a UFA. I don't think that gives us a great chance at winning a Cup, so suddenly you either have to re-sign Hoffman to make the trade at all worthwhile or you have to go all in on 2019/20 in the last year of Hoffman's deal. That just doesn't make sense to me. I think our window is more like 2-5 years at the moment and could only get accelerated to next year if you win the Tavares sweepstakes.

That's a huge reason why I'm not interested in trading Kyrou for help on the wing. This is not the summer to move high value assets for short term help.

Bolded: but for majority in here thinks make it the playoffs is their view point of success, it doesn't matter does Blues win Stanley Cup or not, but its better then be out playoffs and collect (tank) top notch prospects and build real Stanley Cup contender.

There is fans who're happy if Blues goes playoffs and get swept in 1st round.

 

[67Blues]

Did I miss something? When did Hoffman become a 70-80pt winger?

 

[The Note]

Between Schenn, Petro, and Schwartz we are looking at what, $10 mil in raises? They make a combined $17 mil right now and I doubt it takes more than $27 mil to lock up all 3. I think it will be substantially less than that, but I can't imagine it being any higher. Petro at $11 mil, Schenn at $8.5 mil and Schwartz at $7.5 mil is at the very top end of their values unless we see a gigantic increase in the cap (which would give us way more cap space to deal with the inflation). We currently have $42 mil in cap space for the Schenn/Petro summer and $58 mil in space for the Schwartz summer. We have an amazing amount of cap flexibility for those years. Obviously that cap space will shrink as we get closer and extend/acquire guys, but there is very little reason to think that we won't be able to extend at least 2 of those 3. The only way we wouldn't be able to extend all 3 is if other players step up in major ways to deserve huge raises or we bring in Tavares (both of which would extend the window beyond 3 years).

The only way we don't have an incredibly realistic window beyond 3 years is if Thomas and Kyrou both bust hard (or we trade them for guys like Hoffman who we can't afford to re-sign in order to keep the core together) and we draft poorly for the next 2-3 years.

I don’t think anyone is or has advocated trading Kyrou for Hoffman. Or Pacioretty. Or anything other than a clear upgrade on RW/C who is under control for multiple years. If the team is mediocre to bad the next couple years, that could effect your ability to re-sign Schwartz/Schenn/Pietrangelo. Do I think all of them are going to leave? No. But I wouldn’t make their decision to test FA more enticing by counting the next year or two as a wash. Again, I’m not saying you need to trade prospects for a guy a year away from FA. Or sign Bozak to a 6x6 year deal. The point I’m making is, you have a good group of core players all in their primes. Absolutely supplement them with Thomas and Kyrou as they are ready. But if you can turn Thompson and WPG’s first into a top 6 forward, I don’t see why you pass that up. You can try and be competitive in the immediate without mortgaging the future.

 

[Dbrownss]

Bolded: but for majority in here thinks make it the playoffs is their view point of success, it doesn't matter does Blues win Stanley Cup or not, but its better then be out playoffs and collect (tank) top notch prospects and build real Stanley Cup contender.

There is fans who're happy if Blues goes playoffs and get swept in 1st round.

Do you live in an alternate reality? Like where you skim through what people say then construct something that misrepresents what people actually say?

 

[Brian39]

I don’t think anyone is or has advocated trading Kyrou for Hoffman. Or Pacioretty. Or anything other than a clear upgrade on RW/C who is under control for multiple years. If the team is mediocre to bad the next couple years, that could effect your ability to re-sign Schwartz/Schenn/Pietrangelo. Do I think all of them are going to leave? No. But I wouldn’t make their decision to test FA more enticing by counting the next year or two as a wash. Again, I’m not saying you need to trade prospects for a guy a year away from FA. Or sign Bozak to a 6x6 year deal. The point I’m making is, you have a good group of core players all in their primes. Absolutely supplement them with Thomas and Kyrou as they are ready. But if you can turn Thompson and WPG’s first into a top 6 forward, I don’t see why you pass that up. You can try and be competitive in the immediate without mortgaging the future.

I miss the old layout where you could easily embed multiple layers of quotes. It is hard to track discussions when you don;t get to see the full conversation that led to a post.

My comment stemmed from Ransku asking why Kyrou for Hoffman would be a dumb trade:

Hoffman last 3 years have put 60ish season and I think he'll crack on future 30 goaltender mark too. While Kyrou is junior player.

You believe Kyrou will become 70-80 point Winger?

You understand our Windows is 1-3 years, not in 3-6 years

I quoted your post about Schenn/Schwartz/Petro all being due raises because I wanted to talk about how we should be able to easily fit all three of them under the cap and that our window would remain open past those 3 years.

The analysis of our window being open more than 3 years was directly in response to Ranksu's suggestion to trade Kyrou for Hoffman in order to meet the needs of our current window. I don't think Kyrou should be untouchable, my point was simply that Kyrou is more valuable to this team than a short term solution, even if Kyrou is never as good as that short term solution. Our cap structure is in great shape moving forward (despite one meh contract and one contract I actively dislike) and our window is 5+ years unless/until we make moves to close that window. Trading Kyrou for a 2 year solution is a move that does that, where trading Kyrou for a long term solution would not.

That's the point I was trying to make. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[BlueDream]

That would be the dumbest trade of DA’s career.

It actually wouldn’t be.

I wouldn’t make the trade at all, but at least we’d be getting a useful player unlike a guy like Brouwer.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I miss the old layout where you could easily embed multiple layers of quotes. It is hard to track discussions when you don;t get to see the full conversation that led to a post.

If you're talking about multi-quoting, all you have to do is hit "+ Quote" (to the immediate left of the "Reply" button) for each post you want to include, then hit "Insert Quotes" in whatever reply you are typing up. You then have a chance to drag them into whatever order you want (or to remove whichever ones you want) before returning to the text editing portion of your reply.

I'm not sure if it will let you multi-quote easily from a different thread, but you can always create a reply in that thread then pull the code over manually if you really want to do that.

 

[67Blues]

If you're talking about multi-quoting, all you have to do is hit "+ Quote" (to the immediate left of the "Reply" button) for each post you want to include, then hit "Insert Quotes" in whatever reply you are typing up. You then have a chance to drag them into whatever order you want (or to remove whichever ones you want) before returning to the text editing portion of your reply.

I'm not sure if it will let you multi-quote easily from a different thread, but you can always create a reply in that thread then pull the code over manually if you really want to do that.

I could never figure out how to do that on the new board. This was well explained and now easily done. Thank you!

 

[Ranksu]

Do you live in an alternate reality? Like where you skim through what people then construct something that misrepresents what people actually say?

There has been people saying it that it doesn't matter if Blues can't win, but if we get in playoffs its good for me. I can find those messages if I find them.

 

[Dbrownss]

I need to find those messages in here, takes some time, I hope I can find them.

My point is that actually tanking isn't all that possible for the Blues. There just not in a position for that to happen without things going horribly wrong. Even when you do tank, you have to project it out over a couple years when real game changers will be available in the top 10. Even if there are, there's no guarantee you'll get those players.

From what I've gathered most realize this. As the team stands right now, they have the potential to take the next step without having to go through a tear down rebuild.

 

[Stealth JD]

I never mentioned Hoffman. Thinking Stone or Duchene myself.

 

[Dbrownss]

I never mentioned Hoffman. Thinking Stone or Duchene myself.

Stone is less likely then Tavares..... Duchene.....still wouldn't do it.

 

[Robb_K]

Between Schenn, Petro, and Schwartz we are looking at what, $10 mil in raises? They make a combined $17 mil right now and I doubt it takes more than $27 mil to lock up all 3. I think it will be substantially less than that, but I can't imagine it being any higher. Petro at $11 mil, Schenn at $8.5 mil and Schwartz at $7.5 mil is at the very top end of their values unless we see a gigantic increase in the cap (which would give us way more cap space to deal with the inflation). We currently have $42 mil in cap space for the Schenn/Petro summer and $58 mil in space for the Schwartz summer. We have an amazing amount of cap flexibility for those years. Obviously that cap space will shrink as we get closer and extend/acquire guys, but there is very little reason to think that we won't be able to extend at least 2 of those 3. The only way we wouldn't be able to extend all 3 is if other players step up in major ways to deserve huge raises or we bring in Tavares (both of which would extend the window beyond 3 years).

The only way we don't have an incredibly realistic window beyond 3 years is if Thomas and Kyrou both bust hard (or we trade them for guys like Hoffman who we can't afford to re-sign in order to keep the core together) and we draft poorly for the next 2-3 years.

This is very true. We have a 5-6 year window, if Thomas and Kyrou become viable NHLers within the next 2 years, AND we don't trade one of them off for a mediocre short-term fix. In the Salary Cap Era, teams become Cup contenders by drafting high-quality players, and taking advantage of their entire ELC periods. They can't keep contending teams together by signing high-cost UFAs and, at the same time trading for veterans on short-term contracts. I want to see what Kyrou can do in The NHL before trading him off for a high-cost, possibly short-term fix (especially as Kyrou is a needed right-hander, and most of the trade candidates (including Hoffman) are left-handers. If a relatively young, super high quality centre with several contract years left comes available, or a quality right-shooting RW (with the same other attributes), I'd consider trade. Otherwise, I'd keep him, and see how he develops. But, I'd consider Thompson, Sanford, and other young players (plus the Winnipeg 1st) as trade fodder for getting a solid top 6er to help for the next 3 seasons.