Confused over Comp picks rules....

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by hawksfan50, Jun 8, 2006.

  1. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    Basically under the old CBA they awarded comp picks for loss of Group III free agents (The last comp picks for such Group III's lost were awarded in the 2005 draft for such Group III's lost between july1st 2004 and Sept 15th 2004) + the old CBA also awarded comp picks for ANY drafted player who was not signed --you got the comp pick one round later in the same slot# of the round as he ws drafted--I guess if you lost one drafted in the final round a comp pick would be added at the end of the round)--but in any case --UNDER THE NEW CBA: THE ONLY COMP PICKS OF ANY KIND ARE AWARDED FOR ONLY UNSIGNED FIRST ROUND PICKS whose rights are now lost --you get the comp for that in round two in the same number position of that round as the draftee was picked 2 years prior in round one....so we come to the question: DOES the new comp picks rule limited to only loss of 1st rounders who didn't sign apply ALSO to the 2004 draft class OR NOT? Since the application of the old Group III free agent loss comp pick rule was not abolished immmediately but was still retroactive in 2005 to Group II's lost in july1-sep 15,2004,it WOULD SEEM IN FARINESS TO THE SAME PRINCIPLE that the "OLD COMP RULES" would still apply one last time to unsigned draftees from 2004....but as of yet this has not been stated with definite certainty...if the old comp rules apply to the 2004 draft class--THEN it means comps will still be awarded for any unsigned draftees from that class IN ANY ROUND...

    THIS then mucks up alot of the mock drafts --because it means teams will be drafting a few spots later in rounds 3-7 in addition to any comp picks given in round two to first rounders of '04 who did not sign...


    It would mean for example--that CHICAGO would get a comp pick in round 3 at #75
    overall for the loss of Ryan Garlock who was taken #45 in round 2 of 2004...they would get another comp pick in round 5 for the loss of Mitch Maunu in the apprropriate slot (he was picked in round 4 of '04 and unsigned) plus another comp pick in round 6 in the appropriate slot for the loss of Trevor Kell (a 5th rounder from'04 who was unsigned)...


    THUS --IF the old comp rules apoly 1 last time to the '04 class,the Blackhawks will get 3 more picks than their current scheduled 10 before any comp picks...

    AS the Hawks have no third rounder this year that #75 is very important...also as they have none in round 5 the comp pick there is nice...they already have 2 6th rounders so the extra one there is not essential--but still nice...

    HOWEVER--the language which the NHL uses to explain the comp system under the NEW CBA uses the term "going forward" (from 2005) to restrict comps ONLY to the loss of 1st rounders--the issue then is still a bit ambiguous as to whether that applies to the 2005 draft class on OR is applicable immmediately and includes the 2004 class in the NEW rules for Comp picks ....fairness would seem to apply the OLD comp rule to the 2004 draft since that was before the new CBA--but one never knows how the lawyers interpret the ambiguous language that may be in the CBA..

    Hopefully the NHL can clarify this issue well before the draft.
     
  2. The Maltais Falcon

    The Maltais Falcon Registered User

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    No, under the old CBA a team did not get comp picks for unsigned players taken after the first round - just for lost first-rounders and group IIIs.

    Sorry you had to type all that for nothing!
     
  3. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    NO--SORRY TO YOU--check out THE HOCKEY NEWS website--they clearly report that there WILL BE 3rd round COMP PICKS given for 3 unsigned 2nd rounders from '04 who are re-entries....they did not explicitly extend that statement to later round '04 draftees not signed--BUT one can draw the implication that comp picks shouls also be awarded for those!

    www.thn.com
    click on the article "No big names among re-entries" --they say 35 are re-entering the draft 30 from '04 and 5 are allowed under certain rules to re-enter from '05
    ---surely if the 3 2nd rounders from '04 who are re-entries result in comp picks for the teams that drafted them in'04,them draftess of other rounds of '04 re-entering ALSO justify comp picks!!!! (UNLESS THERE WAS A ONE-TIME COMPROMISE between the new rules applying only to lost first rounders re-entering,and the old rules)..so,NO I did not type out my explanations above for nothing--THERE ARE GOING TO BE COMP PICKS GIVEN for at least the 3 re-entry 2nd rounders of '04 and--by implication- likely for later round draftees re-entering as well)...this may come as a surprise to some...but I take THE HOCKEY NEWS at its word--at least as far as those 3 2nd rounderre-entries go...
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2006
  4. The Maltais Falcon

    The Maltais Falcon Registered User

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    Bad idea. I'd be surprised if the league was giving out comp picks for lost second-rounders. They did not under the old CBA.

    I present Article 8 as Exhibit A:

    "8.3. Compensatory Draft Selections.

    (a) In addition to the nine rounds of the Entry Draft, there
    shall be an additional number of Compensatory Draft Selections
    not to exceed the number of Clubs to be in the League in the
    following year.

    (b) In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an
    unsigned Rookie drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft
    (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide
    Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry
    Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft
    Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which
    Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice
    in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the
    date the Club loses such rights. By way of example, if a Club
    cannot sign the third pick in the first round, it will receive
    the third pick in the second round as compensation."
     
  5. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    Well--THEN either there was a special case made for 2nd round 2004 re-entries
    that we don't know about (since the NEW CBA has never been published we really don't know all its details) OR THE HOCKEY NEWS IS DEAD WRONG which being the Bible of Hockey I find very surprising...in any case your old CBA quote also makes it clear that no COMP pick even for 1st round re-entries would be awarded if they never got a bone fide offer --I don't know if Garlock even got that from the Hawks as a 2nd rounder---if the Hockey News knows about a special expemption for 2nd rounders from '04 who re-enter in '06 resulting in a comp pick,they may have assumed Garlock got a bone fide offer--if not then maybe even with a special csae comp pick allowance for '04 2nd rounders,the Hawks still wouldn't get such a comp pick? I guess we'll have to wait till draft day to find out about this...

    FYI: I posted about the article in THE HOCKEY NEWS on the Blackhawks website--and the website manager asked Hawks assistant GM Stan Bowman about this--he reported back that Bowman said: NO COMPENSATION--only for unsiugned first rounders whose rights were lost...so I guess that settles it--THE HOCKEY NEWS REALLY GOOFED on this ( it would look pretty silly if an In the KNOW ASSISTANT GM wasn't party to some "special case" exception that the NHL had in its current CBA )--so I now assume THE HOCKEY NEWS IS INCORRECT on this...
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2006
  6. Bam Beet*

    Bam Beet* Guest

    Whats the compensation for signing other teams RFA's?
     
  7. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

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    $660,000 or below: None
    Over $660,000 to $1 million: 3rd round choice
    Over $1 million to $2.0 million: 2nd round choice
    Over $2.0 million to $3.0 million: 1st and 3rd round choices
    Over $3.0 million to $4.0 million: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round choices
    Over $4.0 million to $5.0 million: Two 1st round choices, one 2nd, one 3rd
    Over $5 million: Four 1st round choices

    There hasn't been an RFA offer sheet in 7 years, although I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see some GM break this out.

    But also keep in mind that the player's original team has the option to match the offer. So it's not as simple as "sign Eric Staal to a max contract and give up four 1st rounders" since Carolina would likely match any offer.
     
  8. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

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    Oddly enough, there's no author associated with the article.
     
  9. Bam Beet*

    Bam Beet* Guest

    Hey thanks alot what website did u get this info?
     
  10. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

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  11. Irish Blues

    Irish Blues Still on hiatus

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    http://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp

    Article 8.3(b) states that "In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."

    Exhibit 16(a) also states that "On a going forward basis, Clubs shall no longer be eligible to receive Compensatory Draft Selections for the loss of Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agents." and Exhibit 16(b) states "Clubs shall continue to receive Compensatory Draft Selections for the loss of draft rights to unsigned first round draft picks in the same manner as under the Expired CBA."

    Translation: no compensatory picks except for unsigned 1st-round picks. Period. THN is wrong if it said teams get compensatory picks for unsigned 2nd-round picks.
     
  12. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Does this include all prior 1st round picks such as Europeans whose rights have been lost (specifically, do the Kings and Bruins get a pick for losing Jens Karlsson and Lars Jonsson)?
     
  13. Irish Blues

    Irish Blues Still on hiatus

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    The Bruins are definitely getting a comp. pick for Jonsson from 2001. I haven't heard anything about Karlsson - they may have another year to sign him, I'm not sure what the Bruins' status is with regard to guys they had to have signed on June 1.

    But yes - it would include all prior unsigned 1st round picks (even the Europeans) for which the team lost rights to on June 1.
     
  14. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    i believe they did away with the comp picks to close the loophole where teams were pulling off trades to get free draft picks.
     
  15. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Hawksfan REALLY makes this site more interesting. It's like each post is a breath of fresh air and bonafide comedy!
     
  16. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Karlsson was drafted in 2001.
     
  17. Irish Blues

    Irish Blues Still on hiatus

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    Sorry ... Jonsson was drafted in 2000, at #7 overall.

    You're talking about Karlsson from Los Angeles. I'd imagine that his rights were lost on June 1 and LA would get a compensatory pick, but I was also under the impression that all unsigned draft picks from 2002 and prior had to be signed by June 1. Apparently this isn't the case, so I'm not sure how things are being applied to the '01 and '02 drafts.

    But at some point the Kings will lose his rights and they'll get the compensatory pick - it's a question of when they finally lose the right to him.
     

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