Competitiveness of Expansion Teams

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by TRVIPERS, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. TRVIPERS

    TRVIPERS Registered User

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    How long would it take for an expansion team to
    become competitive in the new NHL?

    Would an expansion draft of players made available by other
    teams just bring fringe players or would it open up an opportunity
    for teams to dump players with high salaries?

    Established teams would already have their big-ticket players,
    but wouldn’t an expansion team starting fresh with no high salary
    players be able to go after some big name players that they want
    to build their teams with?

    As an expansion team that was willing to spend to the upper end
    of the cap, with all the free agents available each summer and teams
    dumping players with high salaries, would it not be fairly easy to ice
    a competitive team rather quickly?

    It just seems to me that an expansion team could achieve credibility in a
    rather short period of time compared to the expansion teams of the past.
    Your thoughts ?
     
  2. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    In modern times (disregarding the artificial finals seeding post 1967 which allowed the Blues the privilege of being beat upon by an Original six team for three years), the quickest would be Florida going to the Stanley Cup Finals in their third year of operation.

    The Flyers won their first Cup in their seventh year of operation.

    The Sabres went to the finals in their fifth year of operation.

    With the new free agency rules and cap it should be possible to build a team fairly quickly.
     
  3. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    Expansion results in the Bettman era:


    Anaheim:
    - playoffs 4th season
    - playoff win 4th season
    - Cup final 10th season
    - Cup 13th season
    - summary: playoffs 5 of 13 seasons, advanced 4 season

    San Jose:
    - playoffs 3rd season
    - playoff win 3rd season
    - Cup final never (15 seasons)
    - playoffs 10 of 15 seasons, advanced 7 seasons

    Minnesota:
    - playoffs 3rd season
    - playoff win 3rd season
    - Cup final never (6 seasons)
    - playoffs 2 of 6 seasons, advanced 1 season

    Nashville:
    - playoffs 6th seasons
    - playoff win never (8 seasons)
    - summary: playoffs 3 of 8 seasons, advanced 0 seasons

    Columbus:
    - playoffs never (6 seasons)

    Tampa Bay:
    - playoffs 4th season
    - playoff win 11th season
    - Cup final/win 12th season
    - summary: playoffs 5 of 14 seasons, advanced 2 seasons

    Florida:
    - playoffs 3rd season
    - playoff win 3rd season
    - Cup final 3rd season
    - Cup never (13 seasons)
    - summary: playoffs 3 of 13 seasons, advanced 1 season

    Ottawa:
    - playoffs 5th season
    - playoff win 6th season
    - Cup final 14th season
    - Cup never (14 seasons)
    - summary: playoffs 10 of 14 seasons, advanced 5 seasons

    Atlanta:
    - playoffs 7th season
    - playoff win never
    - summary: playoffs 1 of 7 seasons, advanced 0 seasons

    edit: forgot Atlanta
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2007
  4. jkrdevil

    jkrdevil UnRegistered User

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    Well you missing Atlanta. Plus San Jose, Tampa, and Ottawa expansions weren't under Bettman. He came in in the middle of Ottawa and Tampa's inaugural season.
     
  5. Fugu

    Fugu Guest


    It was exactly this point that perhaps led the NHL to review the economic landscape of the league. The flexibility that IS available to GM's hasn't necessarily been exercised thus far in some cases. Unfortunately for the teams like the Preds, perhaps the new CBA did not happen soon enough. Didn't Leipold mention that he wanted to wait before seriously considering selling the Preds until after the CBA went into effect.

    So I think you're absolutely right and wanted to emphasize the point.
     
  6. TRVIPERS

    TRVIPERS Registered User

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    I think that if the NHL does expand, that the fact a new city can ice a good team in a rather short amount of time would certainly help these new teams to become viable quite quickly.


    If the NHL goes to Vegas for example and they spend to the cap they could ice a good team right away, which would be good for the team, the fans and the NHL.

    Maybe the time is right.
     
  7. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    Thanks dunno how I left Atlanta out.

    Wasn't implying Bettman was behind the expansion, just he's been commish for nearly the entire existance of these teams. SJ seemed like the logical cutoff since you have to go back to the WHA merger or 70's expansion before them.
     
  8. NOTENOUGHBREWER

    NOTENOUGHBREWER Registered User

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    If the owner is willing to spend right up to the cap as well as hire good hockey people to run the team then they should be able to become competitive faster than Ottawa did.
     
  9. discostu

    discostu Registered User

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    With talk of expansion, I was wondering how an expansion draft would work in the new NHL. I think it would be a lot tougher than in the past.

    Expansion drafts usually occur before the UFA period. Prior to the lockout, the UFA period wouldn't have that many UFAs, due to the different age criteria. Now, the market is flooded with a lot more.

    Plus, under the old CBA, there were compensatory picks for teams that lost a lot of UFAs. Therefore, an expansion team could draft a lot of pending UFAs, and get the compensatory picks when they hit the UFA market. They end up with less players, but, have better team assets.

    Now, with so many pending UFAs, teams are more able to manipulate their rosters, to not expose any real players off their roster.

    The flip side is, that with increased UFA, expansion teams technically have more players available to them. But, while the common refrain from most people is that players will go whereever the money is, I'm betting that most expansion teams would have a very hard time recruiting any quality UFAs. The ones they do get, will be the ones with little options elsewhere, and, won't be coming cheap. Expansion teams will have the option most likely of acquiring overpaid veterans on bad contracts, but, who may still be good players, and may help an expansion team get to the cap minimum.

    In the new NHL, with 30 established teams, all who are usually in a position to compete for a playoff spot at the beginning of the year, thanks to parity, it's going to be harder I think for an expansion team to really get into the mix.

    No team can really contend without some good youngsters, and, it's much harder to luck yourself into the playoffs.

    The Islanders from this year is probably the best example of what an expansion team may try and follow. They were a team that was built around various veterans and cast-offs, that bought into a system, and really overachieved. But, they still had a star goalie that they developed internally to do it, and even then, they got in by the skin of their teeth.

    It'll be interesting to see how they run an expansion draft. I honestly don't think a team will see the playoffs until their fourth year at the very least, and, you could see a team pull an Atlanta or Columbus, and go quite a long stretch before they get to the post-season.
     
  10. TRVIPERS

    TRVIPERS Registered User

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    I think that existing teams would be making available, prospects that they may be tiring on or just don't feel will be a fit for their team. Plus the expansion teams will receive high picks in their first draft.

    Here is the list of available players from the NHL expansion in 2000.

    http://slam.canoe.ca/HockeyNHLDraft00/expansiondraft_list.html

    Here is who were picked in 2000 NHL Expansion Draft

    http://media.cnnsi.com/hockey/nhl/2000/nhl_draft/news/2000/06/23/expansion_draft_list/

    2007 Free Agents for example

    Eastern Conference
    http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/07nhlfreeagents.htm

    Western Conference
    http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/07nhlfreeagents_2.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2007

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