Coming in 2031: The OHL's "Pickering Generals?"

[DoyleG]

One thing you didn't expect to see coming.

Click to read more...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Cool see you in 8 years.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

I heard that they're planning on playing at the Art Thompson Iceplex.

 

[EvenSteven]

I heard that they're planning on playing at the Art Thompson Iceplex.

Wow! The Art Thompson! Brings back memories! We used to hold our company hockey tourneys there. We’d stay at the Dynasty hotel, get almost no sleep! and play hockey all day!

The ultimate stamina test!

 

[Kingpin794]

Sounds like someone’s playing the slowest game of chicken ever

 

[HansonBro]

This is dumb. The Generals are about the only thing in Oshawa that might attract people, unless the mall counts. There's also countless bars downtown who probably depend on the hockey night income, cause who the hell wants to be downtown Oshawa unless there's a hockey game

No wonder this city gets a bad rep

 

[HockeyPops]

I will believe this when I see it.

 

[OMG67]

I will believe this when I see it.

Yeah. Negotiation tactics. Nothing to see here at all. Tullio will get pretty much whatever he wants because Oshawa doesn’t have a lot of choices.

BUT….

If the Generals move to Pickering, Oshawa is a 100% viable relocation spot. As soon as the Generals move to Pickering and probably struggle like the Steelheads, the Steelheads move to Oshawa.

Trust me, Generals fans aren’t going to Pickering for games if there is a relocated team in Oshawa. I doubt many people from Pickering are at Generals games now. Maybe the odd minor hockey team promotion visit but other than that? It is mostly all Oshawa and Whitby.

 

[EvenSteven]

Yeah. Negotiation tactics. Nothing to see here at all. Tullio will get pretty much whatever he wants because Oshawa doesn’t have a lot of choices.

BUT….

If the Generals move to Pickering, Oshawa is a 100% viable relocation spot. As soon as the Generals move to Pickering and probably struggle like the Steelheads, the Steelheads move to Oshawa.

Trust me, Generals fans aren’t going to Pickering for games if there is a relocated team in Oshawa. I doubt many people from Pickering are at Generals games now. Maybe the odd minor hockey team promotion visit but other than that? It is mostly all Oshawa and Whitby.

Would a Pickering team have territorial rights over the Oshawa area? Could they block an expansion team from relocating there?

Kitchener had to allow Guelph having a team back in the day.

 

[HF92]

Would a Pickering team have territorial rights over the Oshawa area? Could they block an expansion team from relocating there?

Kitchener had to allow Guelph having a team back in the day.

That's intriguing..

Why didn't anyone block London?...

 

[OMG67]

Would a Pickering team have territorial rights over the Oshawa area? Could they block an expansion team from relocating there?

Kitchener had to allow Guelph having a team back in the day.

Short answer would be no. Generals would require approval to relocate. If the League felt there wasn’t sufficient reason to block a subsequent relocation to Oshawa because that was in the best interests of the league then so be it. I highly doibt a relocation request like that would go through with a demand for full territory rights to the entire region unless those territory rights already exist for Oshawa (Durham).

There is more than enough of a population base to support two or three teams in Durham Region when you consider other smaller communities plus their catchment zones don’t equal what Pickering and Oshawa are alone without the remainder of their catchment zones.

EDIT:
Population
Ajax-Pickering 225,000
Whitby-Oshawa 300,000

The more you look at it the more the League should be asking if Pickering is a viable location to build a new rink. If someone is willing to build a 6800 seat rink as part of a new project for Tullio, they should be willing to do it for any owner and move the steelheads there. In some respects, I am wondering why no one every really mentioned that as a relocation.

It is not like people from Pickering or even Ajax and attending Generals games in any significant numbers. Someone could prove me wrong but when I lived in Whitby, and I had friends in Ajax and Pickering, they weren’t going to Gens games much.

 

[ceg195]

I heard that they're planning on playing at the Art Thompson Iceplex.

The all day shinny on both pads.

 

[Roadhog]

I heard that they're planning on playing at the Art Thompson Iceplex.

Too bad it was knocked down and replaced by condos.

 

[yessir29292]

Short answer would be no. Generals would require approval to relocate. If the League felt there wasn’t sufficient reason to block a subsequent relocation to Oshawa because that was in the best interests of the league then so be it. I highly doibt a relocation request like that would go through with a demand for full territory rights to the entire region unless those territory rights already exist for Oshawa (Durham).

There is more than enough of a population base to support two or three teams in Durham Region when you consider other smaller communities plus their catchment zones don’t equal what Pickering and Oshawa are alone without the remainder of their catchment zones.

EDIT:
Population
Ajax-Pickering 225,000
Whitby-Oshawa 300,000

The more you look at it the more the League should be asking if Pickering is a viable location to build a new rink. If someone is willing to build a 6800 seat rink as part of a new project for Tullio, they should be willing to do it for any owner and move the steelheads there. In some respects, I am wondering why no one every really mentioned that as a relocation.

It is not like people from Pickering or even Ajax and attending Generals games in any significant numbers. Someone could prove me wrong but when I lived in Whitby, and I had friends in Ajax and Pickering, they weren’t going to Gens games much.

I think Oshawa has 400,000 itself

 

[OMG67]

I think Oshawa has 400,000 itself

Oshawa has 170k in the last census. Oshawa hasn’t grown tremendously in the last 4 decades. When I moved to Whitby from Ajax in 1982, Ajax and Whitby both had between 18,000 and 22,000 population while Oshawa was at 118,000. Now? Ajax 121k and Whitby 135k. So, the percentage increases are wildly different.

What that means is Durham Region can support two teams. It is much more of a pain in the arse now to go from Pickering to Oshawa than it was in 1985. That’s why I think if the Oshawa team is generally the Whitby-Oshawa team and the Pickering team is the Ajax-Pickering team, the catchment area from a population perspective is reasonably similar and much larger than many other catchment areas for other teams.

The question is whether the demographics in Ajax-Pickering would support the OHL product or not. Would it be similar to Brampton-Mississauga region demographically? There are more new Canadians in the Pickering area and that may make things more difficult Creating some of the same challenges in Missy.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

This is dumb. The Generals are about the only thing in Oshawa that might attract people, unless the mall counts. There's also countless bars downtown who probably depend on the hockey night income, cause who the hell wants to be downtown Oshawa unless there's a hockey game

No wonder this city gets a bad rep

Attract people to Oshawa itself or to the downtown area?

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Short answer would be no. Generals would require approval to relocate. If the League felt there wasn’t sufficient reason to block a subsequent relocation to Oshawa because that was in the best interests of the league then so be it. I highly doibt a relocation request like that would go through with a demand for full territory rights to the entire region unless those territory rights already exist for Oshawa (Durham).

There is more than enough of a population base to support two or three teams in Durham Region when you consider other smaller communities plus their catchment zones don’t equal what Pickering and Oshawa are alone without the remainder of their catchment zones.

EDIT:
Population
Ajax-Pickering 225,000
Whitby-Oshawa 300,000

The more you look at it the more the League should be asking if Pickering is a viable location to build a new rink. If someone is willing to build a 6800 seat rink as part of a new project for Tullio, they should be willing to do it for any owner and move the steelheads there. In some respects, I am wondering why no one every really mentioned that as a relocation.

It is not like people from Pickering or even Ajax and attending Generals games in any significant numbers. Someone could prove me wrong but when I lived in Whitby, and I had friends in Ajax and Pickering, they weren’t going to Gens games much.

It would surprise me if people aren't traveling to games since it's under 20 minutes. My commute to the 67s is about that time- and I live right in the city limits.

Oshawa has 170k in the last census. Oshawa hasn’t grown tremendously in the last 4 decades. When I moved to Whitby from Ajax in 1982, Ajax and Whitby both had between 18,000 and 22,000 population while Oshawa was at 118,000. Now? Ajax 121k and Whitby 135k. So, the percentage increases are wildly different.

What that means is Durham Region can support two teams. It is much more of a pain in the arse now to go from Pickering to Oshawa than it was in 1985. That’s why I think if the Oshawa team is generally the Whitby-Oshawa team and the Pickering team is the Ajax-Pickering team, the catchment area from a population perspective is reasonably similar and much larger than many other catchment areas for other teams.

The question is whether the demographics in Ajax-Pickering would support the OHL product or not. Would it be similar to Brampton-Mississauga region demographically? There are more new Canadians in the Pickering area and that may make things more difficult Creating some of the same challenges in Missy.

That your way of saying immigrants don't like hockey? Lol

It is an issue even for the NHL; hence the "Hockey is for everyone" campaign.

 

[OMG67]

It would surprise me if people aren't traveling to games since it's under 20 minutes. My commute to the 67s is about that time- and I live right in the city limits.


That your way of saying immigrants don't like hockey? Lol

It is an issue even for the NHL; hence the "Hockey is for everyone" campaign.

You have to remember that it takes longer to travel anywhere along the 401. Traffic getting to the 401 from where they live in the town is also an issue. People typically drive much further distances to get to work and don’t want to drive three towns over to go to a hockey game on the regular. It is a different mentality. Even in Ottawa I have noticed a much different mentality since I arrived here in 1990. People used to have no issues going from one end to the other because it wasn’t a pain. Now? No chance.

Think about when the 67’s were in Kanata for two years. Look at the massive attendance drop. IF Oshawa were to move to Pickering, they’d need to develop a whole new fanbase. Some diehards would still remain fans and go but most would not. They’d lose all of their casual fans entirely.

So, although Tullio can say he’d move the team and he may very well end up doing it, he wouldn’t be transferring his fanbase. He’d have to develop another one. Will the demographics in Pickering be conducive or not? I think it may be a bit of a challenge but things are changing so who knows how well adjusted that area would be ten years from now.

 

[Sleemans99]

What do the following all have in common

Alberta and Quebec seperatives?
Two posers in a hockey scrum?
Sports team owners?

Somebody saying "let me go"

Those 3 words need to be said more often.

 

[3rd Username]

Think about when the 67’s were in Kanata for two years. Look at the massive attendance drop. IF Oshawa were to move to Pickering, they’d need to develop a whole new fanbase. Some diehards would still remain fans and go but most would not. They’d lose all of their casual fans entirely.

So, although Tullio can say he’d move the team and he may very well end up doing it, he wouldn’t be transferring his fanbase. He’d have to develop another one. Will the demographics in Pickering be conducive or not? I think it may be a bit of a challenge but things are changing so who knows how well adjusted that area would be ten years from now.

These are realistic challenges that a junior team in Pickering would face not to mention that the casino development Tullio is referring to has to no mention of a hockey rink to my recollection.
It already has a casino, small concert venue and hotel so far with plans for a water park & film studio (but who knows if they get built). I really don't see the value of adding a junior hockey team to the mix. They would have a huge challenge to create a fanbase seeing as the GTA in general seems to have more Maple Leaf fans than hockey fans.
This is at least the 2nd time in the last couple of years that Tullio has mentioned moving the team but it's difficult to take him seriously. Just guessing but I get the feeling him & Oshawa mayor Dan Carter don't get along so the threats are his way of causing grief for Carter. I would guess some citizens have some choice words for the mayor if they feel like there's a chance of losing the Generals (regardless of how unrealistic the threat is)

 

[OMG67]

These are realistic challenges that a junior team in Pickering would face not to mention that the casino development Tullio is referring to has to no mention of a hockey rink to my recollection.
It already has a casino, small concert venue and hotel so far with plans for a water park & film studio (but who knows if they get built). I really don't see the value of adding a junior hockey team to the mix. They would have a huge challenge to create a fanbase seeing as the GTA in general seems to have more Maple Leaf fans than hockey fans.
This is at least the 2nd time in the last couple of years that Tullio has mentioned moving the team but it's difficult to take him seriously. Just guessing but I get the feeling him & Oshawa mayor Dan Carter don't get along so the threats are his way of causing grief for Carter. I would guess some citizens have some choice words for the mayor if they feel like there's a chance of losing the Generals (regardless of how unrealistic the threat is)

To me, it is a hollow threat. As soon as the Generals move, some other team will move in. Oshawa wouldn’t skip a beat other than the team name would change.

The interesting point for me is if there is any possibility to get a building in Pickering, then that should be an option worth looking at for a relocation. It solves problems by having all five teams being East of the GTA for the East Division. It potentially provides a viable market. Even if Pickering isn’t the greatest, Ajax would be. It would take some solid marketing and a lot of work in Minor Hockey Associations for group sakes etc but it can be done.

 

[bigsportsfan]

Does anyone have the list of demands that the Generals are asking for. From what I have read in the DurhamRegion.com, the team wants:

"bundantly a more amount of space, five more offices for our staff, more offices for our coaching staff, another room for parents and players to meet after the game; and to grow our weight room; and a bigger pro shop.”

But in addition to those demands, they also want "a lease, including “being in line with other OHL teams of our size in terms of rent" which essentially means they want to pay less rent.

So that would be like a retail store telling the landlord we need more offices, a bigger backroom, a larger lunch room, a conference room and a bigger retail floor. And by the way we want to pay less rent than what we pay now for our smaller space. It's really not a reasonable request.

 

[ohloutsider]

Does anyone have the list of demands that the Generals are asking for. From what I have read in the DurhamRegion.com, the team wants:

"bundantly a more amount of space, five more offices for our staff, more offices for our coaching staff, another room for parents and players to meet after the game; and to grow our weight room; and a bigger pro shop.”

But in addition to those demands, they also want "a lease, including “being in line with other OHL teams of our size in terms of rent" which essentially means they want to pay less rent.

So that would be like a retail store telling the landlord we need more offices, a bigger backroom, a larger lunch room, a conference room and a bigger retail floor. And by the way we want to pay less rent than what we pay now for our smaller space. It's really not a reasonable request.

And at the end of the day there will be an negotiated compromise and both parties will get some of what they want but not all. It is business in motion. Carry on.

 

[OMG67]

Does anyone have the list of demands that the Generals are asking for. From what I have read in the DurhamRegion.com, the team wants:

"bundantly a more amount of space, five more offices for our staff, more offices for our coaching staff, another room for parents and players to meet after the game; and to grow our weight room; and a bigger pro shop.”

But in addition to those demands, they also want "a lease, including “being in line with other OHL teams of our size in terms of rent" which essentially means they want to pay less rent.

So that would be like a retail store telling the landlord we need more offices, a bigger backroom, a larger lunch room, a conference room and a bigger retail floor. And by the way we want to pay less rent than what we pay now for our smaller space. It's really not a reasonable request.

Except the Landlord doesn’t have a tenant that they can rent to if the current one leaves. Or at least that seems to be the case unless another hockey team that generates similar revenue can take their place.

If the City of Oshawa doesn’t provide adequate amenities, no other teams would want to go there.

So the question comes down to whether what Tullio is looking for is in line with current expectations or not. If his expectations do match the market then the Landlord would be remiss not to provide it as requested. If he is asking for well over market value for amenities then there would be no sense for the City of Oshawa to comply. They’d then be better off trying to find an adequate replacement team.