Combines

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by DevilFisch, May 30, 2005.

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  1. DevilFisch

    DevilFisch Registered User

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    I know the NHL holds a combine before the draft where potential draftees undergo physical and psychological tests and such. But does the combine really affect a player's stock before the draft? I know that in the NFL, a good combine can make a player way more appealing before the draft. A lot of people are really into the NFL combines, comparing times on how fast a player runs a 40 yd. dash; something that teams use to determine whether to select player A over player B. I know for the NBA draft, teams hold workouts to get a good look at a player. But does this happen a lot with respect to the NHL draft?

    I ask this because a lot of discussion for a draft focuses on how they do in games, tournaments, which is all obviously very important; but combine results seems to missing? Is it just because it's not important? Is it because the results aren't open to the public and we just don't know?
     
  2. Riggins

    Riggins Registered User

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    It isn't really as big of a factor in the NHL as it is in the NFL. A good combine can really boost a player's stock in the NFL.

    One guy who went into the NHL combine fat was Steve Bernier, but it didn't seem to hurt his draft stock. He still went 16th overall in 2003. The major concern is how they perform in games, and rightfully so.

    It looks as though psychological tests have an impact. I tend to think it has more to do with the interviews immediately prior to the draft however. This is where perceived attitude or psychological problems can hurt a player's draft position, like Rob Schremp or Patrick O'Sullivan.
     
  3. Form and Substance

    Form and Substance Registered User

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    For First round picks, I don't think they're all that important. for instance, Bernier had really poor combine results but that only made him slip about three or four spots from his projection spots. I think a player who has a really good physical but isn't projected in the first three rounds has a better chance of being selected.\ ealrier than expected.

    EDIT: steadfast, you beat me to it!
     
  4. WFHACommish

    WFHACommish Registered User

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    I think the biggest difference between the NHL and all the other major pro sports is the age of the draft. NHL has 18 yr olds in the draft..therefore I don't think the combine is valued as much as some players still haven't grown to their physical potential. Psychological might be more important as no one likes to have a bad apple in their lot.

    the NFL drafts players that are 21 years i believe...it's either they have it or they don't have it by now.
     
  5. Chootoi

    Chootoi Registered User

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    didn't san jose trade up to get him?
     
  6. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    i think the importance varies from player to player more than from team to team. there are always question marks about certain players that you can't answer by watching them play, so teams can use the combine to see how hard they are willing to work and get a better feel for their personality thru an interview...

    i wouldn't use it to determine a players full value but if i'm looking at a couple of comparable players i would use it to give someone an edge or disadvantage
     
  7. Form and Substance

    Form and Substance Registered User

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    yeah cuz they knew he wouldn't slip that far into the 20s.
     
  8. Juan

    Juan Registered User

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    One great example of how much stock is (or isn't) put into the combine is the fact that Dany Heatley literally got pinned under the bar in the maximum reps bench press test, where the weight is set at 155 lbs.

    The average every year is usually over 10 reps, so that's pretty embarassing.
     
  9. London Knights

    London Knights Registered User

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    The NFL likes to see who has the fastest 40 yard, or who has better hands. I really dont' know why they place so much importance on something like this because, to me anyway, rarely will you ever see the 40 yard dash run in the middle of a game.

    NHL scouts know what they are doing. Obviously there are a lot of picks that would qualify as "busts" but they don't take guys without having at least a justification at the time. It is much better to see junior players in action than to see them perform in an all-star game skills competition.

    Having a 100MPH slapshot is great, but if it takes you twice as long to get it off in a game when there is pressure and there is someone who has a 97MPH slapshot who can get it off much quicker, who would you rather have?
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Registered User

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    The NFL is the one sport where scouts and management can be seduced by a spectacular combine. My own beloved Eagles took Mike Mamula in the 1st round some years back mainly because he had one of the greatest combines in history. He turned out to be a stiff (and a basket case who liked to wave his genitalia at women in bars). However, more teams are going after guys that have produced in college, and not "people who look good in their underwear." The NHL is better, in that people who display unusual aptitude in a single aspect of the game and lack in other aspects are weeded out early. I make fun of Donald Brashear or Todd Fedoruk for their lack of offensive prowess, but if they didn't contribute at all and could only fight, Lennox Lewis would be a 4th line enforcer in NHL right now. If skating were paramount, Hiroyasu Shimizu would be a 1st line player. A real grab bag of talent is necessary, especially considering everyone (besides the goalies) is always playing both offense and defense when they are on the ice, as in basketball. Also, like basketball, there are very few people playing at one time, and individual responsibilities are magnified. In football, no one cares if your kicker or long snapper can run a 4.5 forty, or block Warren Sapp, because they don't need to do that.
     
  11. Guig

    Guig Registered User

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    is there a website that give the results of the combine?
     
  12. rt

    rt DingDongTippIsGone! Sponsor

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    After how many reps?
     
  13. Form and Substance

    Form and Substance Registered User

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    I think 0?
     
  14. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

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    I think the interviewing process CAN dramatically impact a player's stock to teams. I was told by a scout this year of a number of players who fell significantly as a direct result of their interviews in 2004. He also told me that his team in particular did very much care about the interview.
     
  15. Barnaby

    Barnaby Registered User

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    I don't know anyone in the organization, but I can tell you the Rangers go on and on about the importance of interviews. They have a draft show that just repeatedly disusses its importance. They have a psychologist present for the interview and the whole deal. I think it may somtimes even come in to play too much after a pick like Dane Byers in the 2nd round :help:
     
  16. Coffey77

    Coffey77 Registered User

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    I was wondering that too. It wouldn't be embarrassing to be pinned under the bar if you did a few hundred reps. Not doing even one on the other hand...
     
  17. Juan

    Juan Registered User

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    Sorry - "pinned under the bar" is weight training parlance for being unable to do one rep.

    As a means of comparison, a 200 pound guy being pinned by a bar set at 155 is comparable to being unable to perform one strict-form pushup.

    Doesn't restrict him from scoring goals, apparently.
     
  18. rt

    rt DingDongTippIsGone! Sponsor

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    So you're telling me that an 18 year old Dan Heatley couldn't bench press 155lbs. one time? Sorry, I'm gonna have to call bull-**** on this one. Can you prove it? I mean my skinny ass can bench 200lbs a couple of times, and I'd get absolutely man handled in the NHL.
     
  19. Barnaby

    Barnaby Registered User

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    Pinned under the bar can mean just that - pinned under the bar... I have see guys do 6 or 7 reps then get pinned under the bar, they just go for that one extra and can't get it back up. I know what your saying, but thats not always the case.
     
  20. Doomsday Device

    Doomsday Device Registered User

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    The players have to press according to a metronome, so if he couldn't lift the bar at whatever time they set it at, he would have been recorded as having 0 reps. And this isn't that uncommon among athletes to not do well on things like these, particularly hockey players who generally don't work their upper bodies as much.
     
  21. Anthony Mauro

    Anthony Mauro DraftBuzz Hockey

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    I dont see the big deal though. I dont want a weightlifter for a hockey player(other than Anthony Stewart). My 130 lb ass can bench that(155 not 200, ur skinny ass is pretty mysteriously jacked), but weight room strength means jack in hockey.
     
  22. 19nazzy

    19nazzy Registered User

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    I can even bench 155 and I'm by no means a toughguy.
     
  23. DaveyCrockett

    DaveyCrockett Registered User

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    An eighteen year old kid who doesn't weight train and has a pretty skinny build will definetly not be able to bench 155 (properly, theres a huge difference in difficulty when you go all the way down and keep the rest of your body flat). Todd Maculloch couldn't bench close to 155 when he first worked out with his NCAA basketball team and he was 7' and huge.
     
  24. Barnaby

    Barnaby Registered User

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    Yea, 155 is a lot for a 18 year old who weighs 175 or whatever Heatley weighed. If you lined up 20 random 18 yr olds you'd be lucky if 4-5 could do it. Being a rising athlete though you'd think he worked out routinely.
     
  25. Juan

    Juan Registered User

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    An OHL player I used to coach in minor hockey in Toronto who was in the same draft year was next in line for the bench press test, so he was standing there and saw it with his own eyes.

    As well, he told me he saw three guys puke in a bucket on the max VO2 bike test.
     
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