Post-Game Talk: Columbus Blue Jackets at New York Rangers - March 20

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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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7 goals in 37 games when he was playing through injury. That sure is selective.

That was the point.

As is projecting numbers when someone is on the upswing. That’s the thing with projecting - it can vary widely depending on when you choose to make a cutoff or when you choose to make said projection.

If Kreider has shown us one thing, consistently thus far, it’s that the pointless and the point streaks seem to balance out to about his career average.

And I happen to like Kreider a lot. I just don’t agree with some of the overstating. You claim he’s one of the most consistent players in the league, I don’t think consistently going 7-9 games without a goal supports that. You claim people have Internet fantasies about wanting him to score every game, I refer to the previous point. However, you’ll notice I don’t necessarily argue that he isn’t a valuable player, or that he pushes play.

Whatever the reason, Kreider seems to remarkably finish around that 22 goal mark, with the exception of last season.

I don’t consider that a bad thing. But I’m still waiting for him to have more seasons like last season. Maybe that’s next season. But it is also possible that the end product, not the projected one, ends up being around 22 goals.
 
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RangerBoy

Dolan sucks!!!
Mar 3, 2002
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How much and for how long are the Rangers paying Kreider in his next contract? The Rangers will need to make that decision sooner rather later and they will get less the longer they wait.

This general manager doesn't want to give term for group III's. He didn't want to give Yandle a long-term contract. The Rangers traded McDonagh 15 months away from group III. Gorton held the line at 4 years for a 28 year old Shattenkirk and a contract which makes Shattenkirk readily available for trade after the first season. He also traded Stepan before his full NTC kicked in.

Keeping McDonagh wasn't an option

McDonagh was the biggest piece to move, since he has another year on his contract. "We never felt desperation to move him. We had a lot of things to talk about as far as him: whether to move him now, whether we were going to get what we wanted to get or would we get more now or in the summertime. We looked through the past of other teams that were in this situation with similar players," Gorton said.

Weekly Reader: Henrik Lundqvist and the 'R word'

All of these Rangers fans would say the Rangers would re-sign McDonagh if they couldn't get what they wanted. It wasn't an option for the general manager of the team.
 

Glen Sathers Cigar

Sather 4 Ever
Feb 4, 2013
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How much and for how long are the Rangers paying Kreider in his next contract? The Rangers will need to make that decision sooner rather later and they will get less the longer they wait.

This general manager doesn't want to give term for group III's. He didn't want to give Yandle a long-term contract. The Rangers traded McDonagh 15 months away from group III. Gorton held the line at 4 years for a 28 year old Shattenkirk and a contract which makes Shattenkirk readily available for trade after the first season. He also traded Stepan before his full NTC kicked in.

Keeping McDonagh wasn't an option



Weekly Reader: Henrik Lundqvist and the 'R word'

All of these Rangers fans would say the Rangers would re-sign McDonagh if they couldn't get what they wanted. It wasn't an option for the general manager of the team.
Honestly, why should we keep Chytil? What are we willing to pay him when he hits free agency? We should move him now before we have to decide.
 

Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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How much and for how long are the Rangers paying Kreider in his next contract? The Rangers will need to make that decision sooner rather later and they will get less the longer they wait.

This general manager doesn't want to give term for group III's. He didn't want to give Yandle a long-term contract. The Rangers traded McDonagh 15 months away from group III. Gorton held the line at 4 years for a 28 year old Shattenkirk and a contract which makes Shattenkirk readily available for trade after the first season. He also traded Stepan before his full NTC kicked in.

Keeping McDonagh wasn't an option



Weekly Reader: Henrik Lundqvist and the 'R word'

All of these Rangers fans would say the Rangers would re-sign McDonagh if they couldn't get what they wanted. It wasn't an option for the general manager of the team.

As I've said, the Rangers are going to face a very interesting decision with Kreider in the next little bit. Is not going long-term on group III guys going to be the operating procedure? Is it just who they have happened to have in those situations? We don't know yet.
 

Levitate

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Jul 29, 2004
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That was the point.

As is projecting numbers when someone is on the upswing. That’s the thing with projecting - it can vary widely depending on when you choose to make a cutoff or when you choose to make said projection.

If Kreider has shown us one thing, consistently thus far, it’s that the pointless and the point streaks seem to balance out to about his career average.

And I happen to like Kreider a lot. I just don’t agree with some of the overstating. You claim he’s one of the most consistent players in the league, I don’t think consistently going 7-9 games without a goal supports that. You claim people have Internet fantasies about wanting him to score every game, I refer to the previous point. However, you’ll notice I don’t necessarily argue that he isn’t a valuable player, or that he pushes play.

Whatever the reason, Kreider seems to remarkably finish around that 22 goal mark, with the exception of last season.

I don’t consider that a bad thing. But I’m still waiting for him to have more seasons like last season. Maybe that’s next season. But it is also possible that the end product, not the projected one, ends up being around 22 goals.

IMO it ends up being about his health. I think he's improved in a lot of ways from his early seasons (where he still scored 20 goals) but his health problem this year was certainly an issue and staying healthy is a big part of being a consistent player. If he can play a healthy 75+ games? I think he can certainly flirt with 30 again. I don't think last year was anything wildly abnormal from him.

I also think Machinehead is talking a lot about Kreider's consistency in driving the play and not strictly points. I think it's fair to start talking about the different ways players impact the game that go beyond just your normal goals and assists. Hell, we've already done that for years with stuff like "hits!" and "intangibles!" so I don't see why quantifying some of that stuff and saying "hey this guy pushes the offense forward whenever he's on the ice even if he's in a scoring slump" isn't also a fair thing to use to judge a player.
 
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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
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IMO it ends up being about his health. I think he's improved in a lot of ways from his early seasons (where he still scored 20 goals) but his health problem this year was certainly an issue and staying healthy is a big part of being a consistent player. If he can play a healthy 75+ games? I think he can certainly flirt with 30 again. I don't think last year was anything wildly abnormal from him.

I also think Machinehead is talking a lot about Kreider's consistency in driving the play and not strictly points. I think it's fair to start talking about the different ways players impact the game that go beyond just your normal goals and assists. Hell, we've already done that for years with stuff like "hits!" and "intangibles!" so I don't see why quantifying some of that stuff and saying "hey this guy pushes the offense forward whenever he's on the ice even if he's in a scoring slump" isn't also a fair thing to use to judge a player.

I get it. And I don’t disagree that Kreider could flirt with 30 again. But at the end of the day, we’ve been down this road before. So my belief is, and remains, now he has to go out and do it. Us talking about it, again, doesn’t make it so.

The discussion continues to be about what we think he can/should do, versus what he’s actually doing. But I’ve been saying he is capable of 30 goals for the better part of a decade now. Don’t need to be sold on the concept.

Regarding driving the play and impact, I don’t actually disagree all that much from Machinehead. The main point I happen to disagree with is the idea that people expect multiple point games, every game. There is some basis for people to be frustrated from an offensive production standpoint. But I’ve not once disagreed on the driving/impact standpoint.
 
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Mike in Houston

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Apr 20, 2015
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I don't know. Maybe Hank should play. It might continue to help the "tank". Georgiev is at least earning the team a loser point in his starts. That's not good right tank people?
 

Pizza

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Sep 17, 2005
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I get it. And I don’t disagree that Kreider could flirt with 30 again. But at the end of the day, we’ve been down this road before. So my belief is, and remains, now he has to go out and do it. Us talking about it, again, doesn’t make it so.

The discussion continues to be about what we think he can/should do, versus what he’s actually doing. But I’ve been saying he is capable of 30 goals for the better part of a decade now. Don’t need to be sold on the concept.

Regarding driving the play and impact, I don’t actually disagree all that much from Machinehead. The main point I happen to disagree with is the idea that people expect multiple point games, every game. There is some basis for people to be frustrated from an offensive production standpoint. But I’ve not once disagreed on the driving/impact standpoint.

Yes.

What I've been saying and other folks as well. I was never worried about his point totals. I always figured that if he were more visible game in and game out the points would be there.

And again, this year really bends the curve for him. It's an outlier. A serious health issue... career threatening...if not life threatening...that he plays with. Then recovering from it. Literally a new lease on life. Then coming back to a team radically overhauled that you get to make a statement with. I mean you could not ask for a more extraordinary set of circumstances for a professional athlete to deal with.

I am very excited for him. Let's just see what happens.
 
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kovazub94

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I think there are two evaluation downfalls, one for the analytics camp - not considering full context for certain metrics, and one for the eye-test folks being - what-have-you-done-for-me-lately memory. @Machinehead avoided both of these pitfalls here (so kudos to you!) and I strongly encourage posters to remember the current Kreider and Zibanejad, because this is how they looked in the dominant November/December runs before the injury bug (even though that earlier run was already impacted by Kreider blood clot issue).
 
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iamitter

Thornton's Hen
May 19, 2011
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Anyone else find themselves enjoying watching the games more after we made all those trades and gutted a good part of the roster? I've found the games since the trade deadline to be unexpectedly entertaining...
Lower expectations, I think. We don't expect this team to do well, so they're exceeding expectations.
 

Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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Yes.

What I've been saying and other folks as well. I was never worried about his point totals. I always figured that if he were more visible game in and game out the points would be there.

And again, this year really bends the curve for him. It's an outlier. A serious health issue... career threatening...if not life threatening...that he plays with. Then recovering from it. Literally a new lease on life. Then coming back to a team radically overhauled that you get to make a statement with. I mean you could not ask for a more extraordinary set of circumstances for a professional athlete to deal with.

I am very excited for him. Let's just see what happens.

For me, right now, the 28 goal season is the outlier. It will remain so, until it actually occurs again (not via projection, not via belief, but actually happens).

Do I think it could happen? Sure.

But now I need to actually see it happen.
 

kovazub94

Enigmatic
Aug 5, 2010
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For me, right now, the 28 goal season is the outlier. It will remain so, until it actually occurs again (not via projection, not via belief, but actually happens).

Do I think it could happen? Sure.

But now I need to actually see it happen.

I don’t understand how you reconcile these things. Outlier to me is an exception, something that is not likely to happen again, by definition. In meantime you calling it both an outlier and something that could happen.
 

Edge

Kris King's Ghost
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I don’t understand how you reconcile these things. Outlier to me is an exception, something that is not likely to happen again, by definition. In meantime you calling it both an outlier and something that could happen.

Outlier to me is the exception based on established results, thus far.

But I freely admit that it could happen again. If it did, I would no longer consider is the outlier. It goes back to the trend conversation we had a few weeks ago.
 

kovazub94

Enigmatic
Aug 5, 2010
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Outlier to me is the exception based on established results, thus far.

But I freely admit that it could happen again. If it did, I would no longer consider is the outlier. It goes back to the trend conversation we had a few weeks ago.

Yup, we put different meaning into use of “outlier”.
 

free0717

Registered User
Apr 14, 2004
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Old Bridge, NJ
Kreider-Zibanejad-Fast
Chytil-Hayes-Buchnevich
Howden-Andersson-Namestniov/Zucc/Spooner (I'd say the other two get traded for D)
Barron-Veteran 4C-Virta

I'm sweating
Chytil, Howden, Andersson, Barron and Virta need seasoning in Hartford. Put Vecsy on the 4th line and put Boo in as 4th line center. We need to sign a couple of Veterans on Short term contracts until the Youngins are ready

Also, When it comes to Chytil and Andersson, I do give them there cup of coffee this year but next year they have to prove they can be at minimum a 3rd line center. They both have to play center. If brought up and playing wing, they will never develop as centers and we will be in the same place down the line. Chytil and Andersson must develop as Centers
 
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