Colaiacovo vs Suter?

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Jeffrey

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Flames Draft Watcher said:
How can you say that? Care to prove it to us? How much of each guy have you seen live?
alright i've seen both in wjc i know its not the best reference ..
but i can tell u that hamhuis is better offensively but not by much...
hamhuis reminds me derek morris .. he's still a raw talent but he has a good shot at it ..
while suter reminds me Niedermayer .. he's very effective in offense .. good speed.. he brings a lots of intensity ... could be better than hamhuis but IMO hammy has a better OFFENSIVE upside.
just my 2 cents.
 

Nik#11

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Colaiacovo

Anyone drafted in the top 10 gets hyped beyond belief on this board. In a few cases it turns out to be justified, but the majority of the time the player is overrated big-time. I'm betting that Suter falls into the overrated category. Also, when comparing prospects, most people here will always pick the guy who's drafted/rated higher, unless the lower guy is someone they're a particular fan of. Of course, Leafs prospects never get any respect either -- partly because people hate the Leafs, and also partly because none of the Leafs good prospects were drafted in the top 15 (Antropov was the only Leaf prospect that's ever been given a lot of respect around here and he was taken #10).

Yes, the Leafs ratings are pretty screwed up. Kondratiev is only a 6, and should be at least a 7, for instance. I remember arguing at length with the old editor about that a couple years ago (he was something like 5 or 5.5 at the time), and his credentials alone should have indicated he was one of our best prospects, so it's not like his emergence at training camp is a big surprise. Then you have a guy like Immonen who was very impressive in camp but isn't even on their radar (4) - granted, he wasn't on many people's radar.

That said, I don't see a big problem with Colaiacovo's rating. He should definitely be at least 7.5, no matter how much you dislike him or the Leafs, based on what he showed in the NHL last year. An 8 just means he's projected to be a #1 defenseman. That's absolutely what he's likely to be. He should have no problem being one of the top 20-30 D in scoring on a consistent basis, and certainly has the brains to be well above average defensively. He could be even better than that. And unlike Suter, his projection isn't largely conjecture, but rather is based on seeing him play against actual NHL competition.
 

Jeffrey

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Nik#11 said:
Colaiacovo

Anyone drafted in the top 10 gets hyped beyond belief on this board. In a few cases it turns out to be justified, but the majority of the time the player is overrated big-time. I'm betting that Suter falls into the overrated category. Also, when comparing prospects, most people here will always pick the guy who's drafted/rated higher, unless the lower guy is someone they're a particular fan of. Of course, Leafs prospects never get any respect either -- partly because people hate the Leafs, and also partly because none of the Leafs good prospects were drafted in the top 15 (Antropov was the only Leaf prospect that's ever been given a lot of respect around here and he was taken #10).

Yes, the Leafs ratings are pretty screwed up. Kondratiev is only a 6, and should be at least a 7, for instance. I remember arguing at length with the old editor about that a couple years ago (he was something like 5 or 5.5 at the time), and his credentials alone should have indicated he was one of our best prospects, so it's not like his emergence at training camp is a big surprise. Then you have a guy like Immonen who was very impressive in camp but isn't even on their radar (4) - granted, he wasn't on many people's radar.

That said, I don't see a big problem with Colaiacovo's rating. He should definitely be at least 7.5, no matter how much you dislike him or the Leafs, based on what he showed in the NHL last year. An 8 just means he's projected to be a #1 defenseman. That's absolutely what he's likely to be. He should have no problem being one of the top 20-30 D in scoring on a consistent basis, and certainly has the brains to be well above average defensively. He could be even better than that. And unlike Suter, his projection isn't largely conjecture, but rather is based on seeing him play against actual NHL competition.
one question .. have you ever seen suter?
and why are u saying he's overrated ?...
 

dulzhok

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Nik#11 said:
Colaiacovo
Anyone drafted in the top 10 gets hyped beyond belief on this board. In a few cases it turns out to be justified, but the majority of the time the player is overrated big-time.
I agree. We should go ahead and label him a bust because he was drafted in the top 10.
 

Dave is a killer

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Nik#11 said:
Colaiacovo

Anyone drafted in the top 10 gets hyped beyond belief on this board. In a few cases it turns out to be justified, but the majority of the time the player is overrated big-time. I'm betting that Suter falls into the overrated category. Also, when comparing prospects, most people here will always pick the guy who's drafted/rated higher, unless the lower guy is someone they're a particular fan of. Of course, Leafs prospects never get any respect either -- partly because people hate the Leafs, and also partly because none of the Leafs good prospects were drafted in the top 15 (Antropov was the only Leaf prospect that's ever been given a lot of respect around here and he was taken #10).

Yes, the Leafs ratings are pretty screwed up. Kondratiev is only a 6, and should be at least a 7, for instance. I remember arguing at length with the old editor about that a couple years ago (he was something like 5 or 5.5 at the time), and his credentials alone should have indicated he was one of our best prospects, so it's not like his emergence at training camp is a big surprise. Then you have a guy like Immonen who was very impressive in camp but isn't even on their radar (4) - granted, he wasn't on many people's radar.

That said, I don't see a big problem with Colaiacovo's rating. He should definitely be at least 7.5, no matter how much you dislike him or the Leafs, based on what he showed in the NHL last year. An 8 just means he's projected to be a #1 defenseman. That's absolutely what he's likely to be. He should have no problem being one of the top 20-30 D in scoring on a consistent basis, and certainly has the brains to be well above average defensively. He could be even better than that. And unlike Suter, his projection isn't largely conjecture, but rather is based on seeing him play against actual NHL competition.
got attachment?
 

Nik#11

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Kryoptix said:
one question .. have you ever seen suter?
and why are u saying he's overrated ?...

That's two questions.

1. Only once.
2. In this thread he's being overrated. People are saying he'll be FAR better than Colaiacovo. To me that's rather presumptuous, and there's little reason to believe that other than homerism (or anti-Leafism).
 

dulzhok

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Nik#11 said:
Look! Another Reading Comprehension 101 dropout.
Actually, I comprehended perfectly what you said. The only thing you said about Suter was that he was drafted in the top 10 and that top 10 players are "hyped" and "overrated." They you went on to say that you're "betting that Suter falls into the overrated category." The only reasoning given was that he was a top 10 pick. So you might want to explain yourself a little more. But being that you've only seen Suter once, I really doubt that you can give an educated opinion on him.
 

Jeffrey

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Nik#11 said:
That's two questions.

1. Only once.
2. In this thread he's being overrated. People are saying he'll be FAR better than Colaiacovo. To me that's rather presumptuous, and there's little reason to believe that other than homerism (or anti-Leafism).
so true thats 2 questions :joker:
 

SmokeyClause

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dulzhok said:
Actually, I comprehended perfectly what you said. The only thing you said about Suter was that he was drafted in the top 10 and that top 10 players are "hyped" and "overrated." They you went on to say that you're "betting that Suter falls into the overrated category." The only reasoning given was that he was a top 10 pick. So you might want to explain yourself a little more. But being that you've only seen Suter once, I really doubt that you can give an educated opinion on him.


Well said. The problem with Nik here is he thinks people are downgrading Cola on the basis that he is a Leaf's prospect. How about this, Cola was taken 5 spots behind Hamhuis in the 2001 draft. He was the 4th defenseman taken. Poile, who to date has been a very good drafter, graded Suter out higher than he had Hamhuis when he was drafted. I have enough faith in Poile as a drafter to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Others may not.

Now, will Suter be light years better? No one knows but I do think it is safe to say that Suter is clearly the better prospect. Forget for a second that Carlo is a Leaf. I certainly don't care as I don't think most people care either. The problem is that if anyone says anything bad about anyone involved in the Leaf's organization, some Leafs fans are so jaded that it immediately turns into a 'anti-leafs' thread.

In conclusion, if Carlo isn't a leaf, the results are the same except...Nik wouldn't be voting for him.
 

BlueAndWhite

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dulzhok said:
Actually, I comprehended perfectly what you said. The only thing you said about Suter was that he was drafted in the top 10 and that top 10 players are "hyped" and "overrated." They you went on to say that you're "betting that Suter falls into the overrated category."


Actually, if you read it a bit closer you would see that he actually says

"Anyone drafted in the top 10 gets hyped beyond belief on this board. In a few cases it turns out to be justified, but the majority of the time the player is overrated big-time.
Also, when comparing prospects, most people here will always pick the guy who's drafted/rated higher, unless the lower guy is someone they're a particular fan of."

He did not say ALL top ten players are "hyped" and "overrated" as you put it. He said the majority are ON THESE BOARDS.

As well, most people seem to instantly associate the word "overrated" with bust (not saying you are one those in particular dulzhok). A guy can be overrated and still be a damn fine player/prospect.
 

SmokeyClause

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BlueAndWhite said:
As well, most people seem to instantly associate the word "overrated" with bust (not saying you are one those in particular dulzhok). A guy can be overrated and still be a damn fine player/prospect.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ryan Suter is a overrated on these board (not saying you are one of those people who think Suter is overrated) seeing as how he has had approximately 3 posts dedicated in his honor since being drafted. In other words, the same amount as Crosby has had in the past 4 days. He's hardly overrated. Hell, the guy is hardly rated on these boards.
 
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