Cogliano v Oshie

espo*

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I take it you didn't see much of Marchant in college? He was a better than a PPG player who was able to take the puck coast to coast against inferior competition. That's what Cogliano does now. I would agree that his hands are better than Marchant's, but I think his transition to and effectiveness in the pros will be similar.

LOl......you're right ranger,i did'nt see him in college.Though i don't put much stock in what Marchant did in college as opposed to what skills i see him have in the pro game for years now,and in that sense think Cogs has more potential offensively.Marchant is a good player too,i like him but he does'nt bring too much to the table on offense regardless of his college days.He's got no hands and no mind for the offensive part of the game and i disagree that Cogliano does'nt.I've seen him hit holes for goals and hit guys with passes on a more consistent basis then i've probably ever seen marchant do in this league.Now granted,Cogliano has to translate that into the pro game but we don't know that he can't yet. I would agree that his play-making and hands are not what they are made out to be in the past but i'm confident from what i've seen they are at the very least higher then Todd marchants(not sure how impressive a statement that is)

Bottom line i think he has better offensive potential then Todd marchant,though i would stop short of saying i think he'll ever turn out to be a better player in the nhl then Marchant (who has played to his strengths well over the course of his nhl career)

but i definately think he has better offensive upside then Todd. Shall we wait and see how it turns out first?

Maybe you will be shown to be correct,i don't know.
 

Wolfpack

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Jesus Christ. I watch the kid play all the time. I'm not understating anything. His numbers aren't mindblowingly awesome. They are solid for a 1st round pick, but aren't anything super special.

How is that hard to understand?


I've never seen anything in his game to warrant being a first round pick outside of his speed.


:shakehead :shakehead



So... according to you, he's got the speed to be a 1st round pick, and his numbers are solid for a 1st round pick, but you think his game does not warrant him being a 1st round pick.

Just so that I've got your story straight... :huh:
 

espo*

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So... according to you, he's got the speed to be a 1st round pick, and his numbers are solid for a 1st round pick, but you think his game does not warrant him being a 1st round pick.

Just so that I've got your story straight... :huh:

Well,numbers and speed will get you picked in the first round a lot of the time.His concern is that ultimately he does'nt think he'll warrant being a first pick because of his head mostly,not his numbers and wheels.

I can see what he means by that.
 

oil slick

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Well,numbers and speed will get you picked in the first round a lot of the time.His concern is that ultimately he does'nt think he'll warrant being a first pick because of his head mostly,not his numbers and wheels.

I can see what he means by that.

I don't know... putting up decent numbers, great wheels, looks on track for Marchant style career... That's pretty fantastic for a late 1st rounder in a shallow draft IMO.
 

espo*

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I don't know... putting up decent numbers, great wheels, looks on track for Marchant style career... That's pretty fantastic for a late 1st rounder in a shallow draft IMO.

well according to some other guys Marchant had good numbers in college and we all know he has wheels.I think the concern is he won't be able to translate his gifts at the top level......it's possible.

but yeah,from what i've seen of the guy he sure does'nt remind me much of marchant. He sees the ice and is a better goal scorer then that guy IMO.
 

oil slick

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well according to some other guys Marchant had good numbers in college and we all know he has wheels.I think the concern is he won't be able to translate his gifts at the top level......it's possible.

but yeah,from what i've seen of the guy he sure does'nt remind me much of marchant. He sees the ice and is a better goal scorer then that guy IMO.

True - but what I'm saying is that even if he turns out to be Marchant (which I can definately see the comparisons)... I still think that's a good selection from a late 1st rounder in a weak draft. The chances of getting a star from such a pick are extremely small, so I don't see why a very good 3rd liner isn't well worth the pick.
 

espo*

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True - but what I'm saying is that even if he turns out to be Marchant (which I can definately see the comparisons)... I still think that's a good selection from a late 1st rounder in a weak draft. The chances of getting a star from such a pick are extremely small, so I don't see why a very good 3rd liner isn't well worth the pick.

Yeah,i pretty much agree.However,The initial prognosis for Cogs was possible scoring impact player so having him turn into a marchant player with those type of expectations would be a bit of a let down though.

But if he did turn into a marchant type of player would he be a terrible pick at that spot? i don't think so.

But they are'nt looking for him to be that type of guy,i guess that's the point.

I don't think he will anyway,i think he has more offensive talent then Marchant.

Actually,a kid being drafted this year from the U.S strikes me as more of a Marchant type player then Cog's does...............that Sweatt kid.

Limited viewing of the guy though. But what are his numbers? know what i mean?
 
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Rabid Ranger

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Yeah,i pretty much agree.However,The initial prognosis for Cogs was possible scoring impact player so having him turn into a marchant player with those type of expectations would be a bit of a let down though.

But if he did turn into a marchant type of player would he be a terrible pick at that spot? i don't think so.

But they are'nt looking for him to be that type of guy,i guess that's the point.

I don't think he will anyway,i think he has more offensive talent then Marchant.

Actually,a kid being drafted this year from the U.S strikes me as more of a Marchant type player then Cog's does...............that Sweatt kid.

Limited viewing of the guy though. But what are his numbers? know what i mean?

Sweatt is about a PPG as a freshman. He and Cogs share a lot of similarities.
 

SpaceGhost79

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Marchant had 20-12-32 in 33 games his freshman year and 18-28-46 in 33 games his sophomore year of college with Clarkson. I don't recall how tough of a league the ECAC was back then. Save for Harvard winning in '89, all the championships during that period were won by CCHA, WCHA, and Hockey East teams.

Cogliano had 12-16-28 in 39 games as a freshman. That, to me, was disappointing (and Cogs admitted his lack of focus after the WJC). So far his sophomore year he has 23-24-47 in 35 games. A nice improvement over his freshman season, and he's not done yet. He's only been held scoreless in seven games, had a streak of posting points in 22 of 24 games, he's 9th in the nation in goals and 8th overall in points, all while playing second line, yet that's disappointing? :huh: He might not have an intimidating Jack Johnson slap shot in his arsenal, but since when do you need a "scary shot" to score a goal? He's doing just fine with what he's got thus far.

Time will tell how well he translates to the pro game, but so far I've been very pleased with his production this year. The only part of his stat line that worries me a bit is his +6 rating, while teammates TJ Hensick and Kevin Porter (who is just above him in scoring) have +21 ratings.
 

Plager05

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Ive watched Cogliano all year and I must say that he is our best forward behind Hensick. Cogs has 23 goals this season and leads the team. Is that a lack of finish? Oshie had 24 his freshman year, but now has 12, at least Cogs is progressing as the years pass. He had 6 points last weekend, and him and Hensik stole the show the entire game. The scary thing is that if he had linemates that could score his numbers would be ridiculous. He plays with Chris Summers who is a defenceman, and Chad Kolarik who is a perimeter player that has 16 goals this year. The important thing is that Kolarik has taken 150 shots, were Cogliano has only taken shots ranging in the 80's. He is also on the 2nd pp and has a short stint with the 1st unit. Im sure if Cogliano played with Toews and Duncan his point totals would be unlimited. He has 47 points in 35 games, nothing to complain about. It's not his offense that needs work but just he just needs to realize that to be more effective you must stop and start on the puck. Cogs is doing great, and he will continue to

Oshie has half the goals because its hard to put a good shot on with a broken thumb. Its a good thing his playmaking is top notch or he wouldn't have been able to surpass his assist total from last season. I only got to watch one ND game but I'd be willing to bet if Oshie hadn't broken his thumb he'd have a few more goals and Ryan Duncan would have a few less.
 

ralphie86

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Oshie has half the goals because its hard to put a good shot on with a broken thumb. Its a good thing his playmaking is top notch or he wouldn't have been able to surpass his assist total from last season. I only got to watch one ND game but I'd be willing to bet if Oshie hadn't broken his thumb he'd have a few more goals and Ryan Duncan would have a few less.

If Oshie hadn't broken his thumb, both of them would have had more goals. Believe me, Duncan's goal total would not go down from having a healthy Oshie.
 

McDeepika

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I like Oshie more.

As for Cogliano, I might be in the minority but I would be thrilled if he could become a Marchant with better hands. Marchant gets a bad rep but I think he is a good player. If Cogs can become an elite 3rd liner with decent hands, I will be very happy.
 

jiggs 10

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So when is TJO coming out of school. Will the Blues have him and EJ in their line-up next season ??

In 2 weeks,or whenever the Sioux are done for the season. That's straight from Andy Murray (thru someone). He will get called up for the end of THIS year to St. Louis. Had they not made this late push, he would have been able to be a 2nd liner from the first day, that's how BAD St. Louis was!

Never even heard of this Cogliano, so he must not be much of a force in hockey. ;)
 

Stealth JD

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In 2 weeks,or whenever the Sioux are done for the season. That's straight from Andy Murray (thru someone). He will get called up for the end of THIS year to St. Louis. Had they not made this late push, he would have been able to be a 2nd liner from the first day, that's how BAD St. Louis was!

Never even heard of this Cogliano, so he must not be much of a force in hockey. ;)

That's crap. Oshie and the Fighting Sioux are battling for a national championship....and if they advance to the Frozen Four in St. Louis there won't be any NHL season left for Oshie to play in. The last two games of the Frozen Four are also the dates of the Blues last 2 regular season games....so I'm gonna call BS on this one. :shakehead
 

2ForRoughing*

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In 2 weeks,or whenever the Sioux are done for the season. That's straight from Andy Murray (thru someone). He will get called up for the end of THIS year to St. Louis. Had they not made this late push, he would have been able to be a 2nd liner from the first day, that's how BAD St. Louis was!

Never even heard of this Cogliano, so he must not be much of a force in hockey. ;)

I think your whole post is bullcrap. To begin with I'm betting that you don't know anyone who knows anything about Andy Murray, never mind just happens to have inside information on Oshie. Secondly if you think St.Louis, who is essentially a .500 hockey team, is "so bad" or whatever, then how bad are all the teams beneath them? If Oshie could have made the Blues 2nd line he could have made most NHL teams.
I also call BS on your post.
 

Checker*

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I'm not sure Oshie has scoring star potential for the NHL either.Maybe a 30 goal-60 point guy but i would'nt call that a scoring star. i see him more as a 2nd tier offensive guy with other intangibles to his game like down low puck possesion productivity.


I think this is a fair projection. I'm actually hoping for 25 goals 40 assists as I think Oshie will have more success as a playmaker than a goal scorer. I also hope that Oshie's "clutch" ability carries over to the NHL meaning that most of his scoring won't be happening in the later stages of blowouts but instead when the team could really use a goal. What I've always been impressed with about Oshie is that whenever he steps on the ice, he does something to grab your attention whether it be a huge hit, great pass, move, or just being in the right place at the right time for a shot. I think you're spot on in saying that he probably won't be a scoring star, but I'm hoping to see plenty of Oshie #7 jerseys as he should be a fan favorite.
 

Plager05

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If Oshie hadn't broken his thumb, both of them would have had more goals. Believe me, Duncan's goal total would not go down from having a healthy Oshie.

Maybe not, I was just trying to show Oshie had indeed improved despite the stats. The idea was he would've shot alot more had his thumb been healthy.
 

SeaBasstian

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I think your whole post is bullcrap. To begin with I'm betting that you don't know anyone who knows anything about Andy Murray, never mind just happens to have inside information on Oshie. Secondly if you think St.Louis, who is essentially a .500 hockey team, is "so bad" or whatever, then how bad are all the teams beneath them? If Oshie could have made the Blues 2nd line he could have made most NHL teams.
I also call BS on your post.

just so you know, Andy Murray is the father of former UND Fighting Sioux Brady Murray, and plenty of us who went to/go to or lived/live in Grand Forks or the area know and talk to Brady. Since Brady IM SURE talks to his dad, id take that as a safe bet for ONE way jiggs could have heard this.....

and for the record.....i do talk to Brady Murray once in a while a difficult when he is playing in Switzerland right now) just so you know that it is possible. if you dont nkow who brady Murray is, he was the Ryan Duncan of the Brandon Bochenski/Zach Parise line, minus some Sophomore season production.
 

God Bless Canada

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I'll take Oshie. I love his heart, energy and overall skill level. Won't be a star, but he will be really good, and a guy you definitely want on your team in the playoffs. 50-60 points, combined with lots of grit, makes him an ideal second liner. The 2006 US WJC entry (you can't call that a team) was a colossal disappointment, but Oshie was the one forward on that entry who impressed me on a nightly basis. Maybe it was because I hadn't watched him as much as Kessel or Ryan or Mueller, but I was raving about Oshie's play.

I have watched Cogliano play at the last two WJC tournaments. I love his speed, but I question his creativity and his instincts, as well as his shiftiness. He seems to have one speed - really fast - which sounds good at first, but in the end, those types of players, the ones who have just the one gear, are the ones who often struggle once they hit the NHL. Remember Paul Ranheim? World class wheels, a monster scorer in college and the AHL, but never came close to that production in the NHL. Maybe my expectations for Cogs were too high entering the WJC, but it just seemed like he never did anything out there. I thought he was another Mike Cammalleri when he was drafted, but I don't thik Cogliano will approach Cammalleri's production.
 

rumrokh

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The problem with the original post is the conclusion that they are similar players. They aren't. It seems like they both have good potential, but they each bring something different. I think Oshie is a more unique player, so he's probably more desirable to most teams. That doesn't mean he'll be better, but it is in line with how most of the posters in this thread give Oshie the nod.
 

*OvechKiN*

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based on their World Juniorr performances, i would have to say Cogliano

Especially considering the fact that Oshie didnt play in this years world juniors :sarcasm:

and if you consider the year previous when they both played, Id have to say that Oshie was much more impressive than Cogliano
 

Hunter Gathers

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Especially considering the fact that Oshie didnt play in this years world juniors :sarcasm:

and if you consider the year previous when they both played, Id have to say that Oshie was much more impressive than Cogliano

Seriously. Cogliano was VERY disappointing this year as well as last year, IMO.
 

Form and Substance

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Jesus Christ. I watch the kid play all the time. I'm not understating anything. His numbers aren't mindblowingly awesome. They are solid for a 1st round pick, but aren't anything super special.

How is that hard to understand?

:shakehead :shakehead

oh come on he's scoring at a 1.34 ppg pace which as you know is 3rd in the CCHA and he's doing it as a true sophomore. I already agreed with you that Cogliano will struggle at the next level but you said "he's scored a little bit at the college level"...you can pick his game apart but not his numbers. His numbers are impressive regardless of which position you stand, don't need to undermine them to shove your point across you sad angry man.
 

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