Player Discussion Cody Ceci Part II

[Xspyrit]

wow some people just never give up building the negative, 950 posts, part 2...

Let's just agree that Ceci sucks and move on to something else, like watching the team go to the ECF?

So we can assume the Sens are going to expose Ceci in the expansion draft anyway since he is really bad but Vegas doesn't know YET, so they are going to pick him up. Problem solved. But actually, since the Sens management is totally inept, they won't do that so we might be stuck with Ceci until someday we finally realize how much he sucks, so we can dump him for an overpaid player ala Cowen

Did Xspyrit bite you or what?

No one is calling to buy out Ceci immediately and set him free. Among our prospects only Chabot has realistic potential to become a better player than Ceci is right now.

What most people want, is to stop trying to make solid top-4 defenceman Cody Ceci happen. It's not going to happen.
At 2.8M cap hit we can't keep him on the bottom pairing. He's a below average 2nd pairing defenceman without any offensive and physical game and suspect defense. If we want to have a solid top-4 defense unit we need to start looking for other options out there and make him part of the deal. HARPUR/CLAESSON/BORO/WIDEMAN are bottom pairing defencemen without any expectations and get paid accordingly.

As for other options, seems like Julien is not a fan of Nathan Beaulieu, scratching him in the playoffs. Wonder if we could swap him for Ceci to give both players a fresh start.

A lot of people can get annoyed by the constant bashing or harping on the scapegoats, they do that on their free agency. They don't need to be bitten by an evil vampire

Also, if you think that swapping Ceci for Beaulieu would be a good idea to improve your hockey club, I am then seriously suspecting your bias on this subject.

What was he thinking? Pretty sure it was "hit Hoffman with a breakout pass". Not exactly a "thinking" problem. He fanned on the puck under no pressure. Criticize his skill or execution, not the thought process.

Totally... Weird to see people confound hockey IQ and fanning on a puck.

I actually find it very disturbing how much of a goat Ceci is among the fan base. I guess that'll happen when you're basically the guy who's on the ice when Karlsson isn't, but its jarring to see the unrelenting bashing, even when the guy is playing well.

Good choice of words here. Yeah, I find it very disturbing too. Is Ceci known for stealing girlfriends in Ottawa or something? The microscope that has been put on him is one of the biggest i have seen in 10 years on HF Sens. It's definitely Cowen territory. Cowen's play deteriorated over time and injuries. Ceci keeps improving, that's weird.

I don't think everyone agrees on this at all. We can agree that with GB deploys him as a top 4 defender on this team. Is it deserved?? That's the debate.

So the premise here is that Boucher, Raymond and Crawford don't know much what they are doing.

I have also been told that putting more stock in their ideas rather than various posters on a message board is not a good argument.

Also, those ex NHLers and coaches at TVA/RDS keep praising Ceci, is it because they are lacking hockey IQ or something?

So what is it? Who should I listen to?

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

There's something incomplete about Ceci's game. He's always making PART of a good play. He runs a guy strongly into the boards, takes the puck and then gives it back. He picks off a pass and then hits his own guy in the back of the skate with the breakout pass. He wins a puck battle on the PK, then whiffs on the attempt to clear it down the ice. He comes into the attacking zone on a promising rush, and instead of pressing the attack, he slows down, turns sideways and backs toward the boards looking to make a pass that never opens up. It's frustrating because he has so much potential: big, strong, fast guy with a fairly hard shot. But he's still young and cast in a difficult role. He would be hard to replace.

I'm telling you, if he can just make decisions a second or two quicker he would be much more effective. He lags too much

He skates hard, battles hard it's just the brain does not work as hard as his body

 

[BatherSeason]

So what is it? Who should I listen to?

Use your own judgement, listening to the media fluff is dangerous. Remember, the media is who got Doughty his lifetime achievement award last year. These are also the same guys who ran polls just last year about whether EK should be moved to forward. Watch him play yourself. If you like, good for you, if you don't, then join the "evil side". Pretty simple. This is a discussion board, where people discuss, so that's what we are doing. I have played hockey, so don't use that excuse on me again.

I am extremely happy that we have made it to the ECFs and hope to win it all, but in order to beat the Pens and get to the final, Ceci needs to be better.

 

[Micklebot]

Use your own judgement, listening to the media fluff is dangerous. Remember, the media is who got Doughty his lifetime achievement award last year. These are also the same guys who ran polls just last year about whether EK should be moved to forward. Watch him play yourself. If you like, good for you, if you don't, then join the "evil side". Pretty simple. This is a discussion board, where people discuss, so that's what we are doing. I have played hockey, so don't use that excuse on me again.

I am extremely happy that we have made it to the ECFs and hope to win it all, but in order to beat the Pens and get to the final, Ceci needs to be better.

Yeah, Norris voting includes Steve Simmonds opinion, so that's got to taint it a bit...

Having said that, there are those in the media that are well worth taking the opinions of, and who a very good job of analysing plays. When Ferraro or someone like him starts giving their opinion, it holds far more weight than Healey or some other joker.

Basically, media as a group, not great, but some of the individuals are well worth listening to.

 

[SilverSeven]

Use your own judgement, listening to the media fluff is dangerous. Remember, the media is who got Doughty his lifetime achievement award last year. These are also the same guys who ran polls just last year about whether EK should be moved to forward. Watch him play yourself. If you like, good for you, if you don't, then join the "evil side". Pretty simple. This is a discussion board, where people discuss, so that's what we are doing. I have played hockey, so don't use that excuse on me again.

I am extremely happy that we have made it to the ECFs and hope to win it all, but in order to beat the Pens and get to the final, Ceci needs to be better.

IMO, the only one who needs to be better for that to happen is Anderson. And if he isn't better, Ceci could turn into Erik Karlsson Jr overnight and it wouldnt matter.

Ceci definitely makes his fair of mistakes, but holy cow have Sens fans got it out for him. He also tends to make a number if great plays every game, but he certainly never gets credit for them. He has a lot of growing to do, but he is still so young. I could easily see him being a reliable second pairing guy.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

IMO, the only one who needs to be better for that to happen is Anderson. And if he isn't better, Ceci could turn into Erik Karlsson Jr overnight and it wouldnt matter.

Ceci definitely makes his fair of mistakes, but holy cow have Sens fans got it out for him. He also tends to make a number if great plays every game, but he certainly never gets credit for them. He has a lot of growing to do, but he is still so young. I could easily see him being a reliable second pairing guy.

The whole team needs to be better ,., that's how the playoffs go... better teams to beat as you advance... Sens need to elevate again and everyone has to be all in ,, no flybys on the forecheck ... finish checks ... I agree with the Anderson comment.

 

[Anidalife]

IMO, the only one who needs to be better for that to happen is Anderson. And if he isn't better, Ceci could turn into Erik Karlsson Jr overnight and it wouldnt matter.

Ceci definitely makes his fair of mistakes, but holy cow have Sens fans got it out for him. He also tends to make a number if great plays every game, but he certainly never gets credit for them. He has a lot of growing to do, but he is still so young. I could easily see him being a reliable second pairing guy.

Honestly, I disagree. I think he makes parts of a number of great plays that sometimes end well and sometimes end up as poor plays. He would make a great check along the boards and rub out the opponent, and then steal the puck and throw it blindly into the centre of the ice. Or he'd carry the puck out with great poise and force the opponent back, then carry it too far and get pinched out, turning the puck over deep into the zone.(Now Karlsson is prone to this too, carrying for just a tad too long and throw a harmless shot on ice from a tough angle).

And I don't have it out for him. I see good plays, I compliment. I see bad plays, I criticize. It's getting tiring to keep hearing about "people hating on players". Nobody except a very select few actively hate players. Criticism doesn't mean hating on players. You do not contribute anything to the conversation by calling other people haters. How would people like it if I called them "suck ups" and "puppets without an opinion" in every post? It's offensive and rude. There's no need for that.

Now in the future, I don't rule out that he could become a solid or great 2nd pairing D. I'll stand by my stance that currently he's not that, yet he's being played in that role, so he absolutely can be criticized when he's not performing up to it.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

who should take his minutes?

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I'd say that Ceci is a solid 4-5. He can play top 4 minutes if you need him too, but he'd be better off anchoring the third pair. He's still young, has loads of potential and can grow. I dunno, maybe some people just expect him to be the kinda guy who has top pairing potential, and I jst don't think that that's Cody Ceci.

 

[Anidalife]

who should take his minutes?

Nobody currently. As much as I criticize him he's still 3rd or maybe 4th best D on the sens right now.

 

[JD1]

I'm going to preface this comment by saying that Ceci makes his fair share of bone head puck handling mistakes some of which is due to him getting lots of ice which means lots of opportunity to make those mistakes

when people say he is ideally suited to a 3rd pair role think about what that means. virtually every team in the league has a few guys making 1M a year playing 5 6 7 minutes. On this team for Ceci to play bottom pair minutes we'd need two d men in the 5M range that are playing to their cap hit to push him that far down the ladder.

which nhl teams would ceci be a bottom pair guy on? I get a kick out of some of the lists I see. they are just names. are all those names really better? where are the teams those guys play for?

we don't have an elite forward group. lots of teams do.

we have decent goaltending that runs hot and cold. lots of teams have better goaltending.

our D is probably the strongest asset.

I just don't get how ceci ends up on the bottom pair without an infusion of 10 M for 2 veteran D men.

Methot and Phaneuf are good players but I don't think either can handle Ceci's minutes game in and game out. Pushing Ceci and Phaneuf to a bottom pair requires as I said an infusion of 10 M worth of 3/4 calibre guys.

I just don't see a scenario where he plays bottom pair.

Are there scenarios where other teams have players better than Ceci in that role? sure. but if you take that approach to Ceci and start looking at all the roles needed on a team we're talking constructing team Canada to have the best player at every role.

People talk about the expansion draft and losing Methot. Methot can't play Ceci's minutes. if he could Boucher would be rolling him out there 25 minutes a game. Methot's minutes will be a lot easier to replace than Ceci's minutes.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd say that Ceci is a solid 4-5. He can play top 4 minutes if you need him too, but he'd be better off anchoring the third pair. He's still young, has loads of potential and can grow. I dunno, maybe some people just expect him to be the kinda guy who has top pairing potential, and I jst don't think that that's Cody Ceci.

Right now, I think he can anchor a 3rd pair, or play a solid support role on a 2nd pair. Problem is Phaneuf is at that same place right now. Both guys need somebody a bit better than what we got to really thrive on that 2nd pair. I reallly hope that Chabot can solve the issue, he may also be a better match for Ceci's skill set than Phaneuf.

With time, or the right partner, I think he could be a support player on a first pair, it's just not happening here with Karlsson ahead of him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Good choice of words here. Yeah, I find it very disturbing too. Is Ceci known for stealing girlfriends in Ottawa or something? The microscope that has been put on him is one of the biggest i have seen in 10 years on HF Sens. It's definitely Cowen territory. Cowen's play deteriorated over time and injuries. Ceci keeps improving, that's weird.

I think I know why Ceci became a target. It's his skating & body style. He is a very clunky "frankenstein" type of skater. He hunches his shoulders a lot, and he has that big blocky body that has zero grace to it. The visual when you watch him is opposite the silky-smooth Karlsson.

So, people have it in their minds that a guy with no body flow is somehow stupid, or low hockey IQ, or just plain bad. But when you go beyond the clunkiness, you do see a quite effective 2nd pairing defenseman there. He simply isn't pretty while doing his job.

 

[Canadian Time]

I think I know why Ceci became a target. It's his skating & body style. He is a very clunky "frankenstein" type of skater. He hunches his shoulders a lot, and he has that big blocky body that has zero grace to it. The visual when you watch him is opposite the silky-smooth Karlsson.

So, people have it in their minds that a guy with no body flow is somehow stupid, or low hockey IQ, or just plain bad. But when you go beyond the clunkiness, you do see a quite effective 2nd pairing defenseman there. He simply isn't pretty while doing his job.

Interesting, I think you could be onto something here. I dismissed it during first reading, but if you notice that the same folks dumping on him are mostly the same that seem to like the small, flashy European players it makes sense.

I have no problem with Ceci, he's going to a staple on the blueline here for a long time. He won't be a #1 but so what, he'll be a valuable piece to have.

 

[JD1]

another angle is that this fan base has been privileged to witness EK65 who is the smoothest player this league has seen in a long long time

 

[Anidalife]

I think I know why Ceci became a target. It's his skating & body style. He is a very clunky "frankenstein" type of skater. He hunches his shoulders a lot, and he has that big blocky body that has zero grace to it. The visual when you watch him is opposite the silky-smooth Karlsson.

So, people have it in their minds that a guy with no body flow is somehow stupid, or low hockey IQ, or just plain bad. But when you go beyond the clunkiness, you do see a quite effective 2nd pairing defenseman there. He simply isn't pretty while doing his job.

Might be true, if not for the fact that Stone is fine and he's more "clunky" than Ceci. There's no hidden reason to it. I see him make a pass to no one on the breakout, and I call it out. There's no conspiracy.

Interesting, I think you could be onto something here. I dismissed it during first reading, but if you notice that the same folks dumping on him are mostly the same that seem to like the small, flashy European players it makes sense.

I have no problem with Ceci, he's going to a staple on the blueline here for a long time. He won't be a #1 but so what, he'll be a valuable piece to have.

So now we're gonna bring up Europe VS good canadian boys? Give me a break. Talk about his play, not his nationality.

another angle is that this fan base has been privileged to witness EK65 who is the smoothest player this league has seen in a long long time

I also think Wideman is not as good as Ceci, yet he's much smoother skater. Neither is Claesson. I don't even think Phaneuf is better, but that's debatable. So no, I'm not comparing Ceci to Karlsson. He's 3rd on the team, just not good enough currently to be a good 3rd D.

Right now, I think he can anchor a 3rd pair, or play a solid support role on a 2nd pair. Problem is Phaneuf is at that same place right now. Both guys need somebody a bit better than what we got to really thrive on that 2nd pair. I reallly hope that Chabot can solve the issue, he may also be a better match for Ceci's skill set than Phaneuf.

With time, or the right partner, I think he could be a support player on a first pair, it's just not happening here with Karlsson ahead of him.

I agree with this very much. If he has someone like Karlsson for Methot, he'd look a lot better. We don't have someone like that now, and he's not ready to be that guy now, so it doesn't look as good.

 

[burf]

Interesting, I think you could be onto something here. I dismissed it during first reading, but if you notice that the same folks dumping on him are mostly the same that seem to like the small, flashy European players it makes sense.

I have no problem with Ceci, he's going to a staple on the blueline here for a long time. He won't be a #1 but so what, he'll be a valuable piece to have.

I disagree with that assessment completely. When you watch Ceci, he looks like he's doing stuff. He's skating hard, he's battling, he looks smooth out there. It's just that while he's running around LOOKING like he's doing stuff, he's actually losing puck battles, throwing the puck away, turning the puck over, or just not getting to pucks fast enough. I don't understand how he has so many defenders on this board when he's on the ice for 80% of the Sens "losing shifts", where they get stuck in the zone for an extended period.

Like other posters in here have said, he usually looks like he's doing what he's supposed to, but he's always just doing it a second or two behind when he should.

 

[JungleBeat]

I think I know why Ceci became a target. It's his skating & body style. He is a very clunky "frankenstein" type of skater. He hunches his shoulders a lot, and he has that big blocky body that has zero grace to it. The visual when you watch him is opposite the silky-smooth Karlsson.

So, people have it in their minds that a guy with no body flow is somehow stupid, or low hockey IQ, or just plain bad. But when you go beyond the clunkiness, you do see a quite effective 2nd pairing defenseman there. He simply isn't pretty while doing his job.

 

[FlyingJ]

I think I know why Ceci became a target. It's his skating & body style. He is a very clunky "frankenstein" type of skater. He hunches his shoulders a lot, and he has that big blocky body that has zero grace to it. The visual when you watch him is opposite the silky-smooth Karlsson.

Um, what? Ceci's a really good skater. Heck, it's probably his strongest attribute. And when he's skating up ice with the puck, it's easy to see why he passes the eye-test for so many. The issue being that he usually needs someone else to get him the puck in stride.

So, people have it in their minds that a guy with no body flow is somehow stupid, or low hockey IQ, or just plain bad. But when you go beyond the clunkiness, you do see a quite effective 2nd pairing defenseman there. He simply isn't pretty while doing his job.

No. The reason some suggest he has low hockey IQ is because he often loses coverage despite being a good skater, struggles at puck retrieval, and when he and Phaneuf are on the ice they get outchanced badly, even if you factor in zone starts. They've been among the worst defensive pairings in the playoffs in terms of underlying numbers, and IIRC were actually contending with Dan Girardi and Marc Staal in that area (a pairing that many Rangers fans would tell you they want one of, if not both, to be bought out or moved).

Heck, 6th Sens pointed something really troubling out

In the 132:58 of five-on-five ice time through the playoffs, whenever the Phaneuf-Ceci has been on the ice, the opposition has scored 70.0-percent of the goals and taken 56.3-percent of the shots.

I'm sorry, but in what world, even considering zone starts, is that indicative of a quality "shutdown" pairing?

And then there's the regular season:

Ceci/Phaneuf Stats Together
Stat Value Rank (out of 92)
CF60 50.37 77
CA60 62.78 82
CF% 44.52 85
GF% 41.38 70
xGF% 45.29 79
SCF% 45.73 68
CF% Relative -4.62 79
DSZ% 34.88 20
PDO 98.71 67
Penalty Differenc -10 80

But since Cody is a good skater (seriously, I could not disagree more with your description of his style), a local boy, and a first round pick, some will turn a blind eye to this. He actually reminds me somewhat of Christoph Schubert: a classic case of all the tools, but no toolbox.

 

[Knave]

The only reason he reminds you of Schubert is because they wore the same number.

 

[IamJust0ne]

Quiet (great) game from Ceci tonight

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Quiet (great) game from Ceci tonight

Agreed. He made some nice defensive plays.

 

[Senscore]

Excellent play in overtime.

 

[aragorn]

IMO, the only one who needs to be better for that to happen is Anderson. And if he isn't better, Ceci could turn into Erik Karlsson Jr overnight and it wouldnt matter.

Ceci definitely makes his fair of mistakes, but holy cow have Sens fans got it out for him. He also tends to make a number if great plays every game, but he certainly never gets credit for them. He has a lot of growing to do, but he is still so young. I could easily see him being a reliable second pairing guy.

Good post. He continues to improve & is doing his part, he is one of 20 guys out there & they all need to help each other.

Nobody currently. As much as I criticize him he's still 3rd or maybe 4th best D on the sens right now.

Exactly nobody else in this organization can replace him right now & I would say he is the 3rd best defenceman on this team. Phaneuf is slow as molasses & Methot has the luxury of playing with Karlsson.

Quiet (great) game from Ceci tonight

 

[playasRus]

Ceci was great at moving the puck tonight. Never got hemmed in our zone, never panicked. Played the body well. A+ for tonight.