Speculation: Coaching Discussion

LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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A small portion after 2010 at most. Stan was forced to rebuild the team dues to Tallon.

Lets also not forget Tallon wanted Havlat over Hossa. If that happens there are zero cups imo.
but wasn't he the gm on the first SC ??
 

Robsker

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Nov 8, 2014
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The Bickell trade has been mentioned. Root Cause of that trade was overpaying Bickell at the time.....before his illness was even an issue. Stan was on a Cup high giving millions away there.

Bicks looked like a guy who would flourish. He was fairly young, talented and --- at the time when it was assumed that he was healthy --- the payment was only modestly inflated (actually not bad at all). it turned out that Bicks was sick, he did not play to his potential because he was sick and the deal looked bad in view of that. That is, the Bicks deal was "bad" only in that the guy got bad sick --- no one could predict that.
 
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b1e9a8r5s

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Feb 16, 2015
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but wasn't he the gm on the first SC ??
Stan took over in July 2009. He was the GM.

Dale was demoted in 2009 after the qualifying offer screw up. . He was an adviser until he was named Florida GM in May 2010 and Hawks won cup in June 2010.

Obviously Dale had a big role in that team though.
 

ColdSteel2

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Aug 27, 2010
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I understand where you guys wanting Stan gone are coming from. He paid the core too much to keep the team competitive in the event their play dropped off, which happened to all of them except Kane seemingly simultaneously. It really sucks, what a kick to the crotch. But Stan or no Stan, that’s not going away. If they do fire them both after the season, it won’t bother me. I just don’t expect that to solve our VERY complicated problems and would like to give Stan another year at least to see whatever plan he has take shape some more. Right now we need someone who intimately understands the situation. You lose Scotty with him too. I get wanting to go in a different direction but not just to see heads roll, there has to be more of a purpose to it.
 

No Fun Shogun

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May 1, 2011
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Stan had a big role in the 2010 team as well. He had major gigs in the organization for a decade prior to his promotion, so it's not like he had nothing to do for 2010. That being said, Tallon definitely deserves the lion's share of credit for 2010, but it's not like Bowman was just some random joe that lucked into a great position.
 

Blue Liner

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Dec 12, 2009
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Stan had a big role in the 2010 team as well. He had major gigs in the organization for a decade prior to his promotion, so it's not like he had nothing to do for 2010. That being said, Tallon definitely deserves the lion's share of credit for 2010, but it's not like Bowman was just some random joe that lucked into a great position.

2010 had a lot of fingerprints on it. Mike Smith was the GM that selected a lot of players on that roster, Pulford had a draft in there if I'm not mistaken, and Tallon was an Assistant GM in the middle of all of that as well. It's not a slight on Tallon, but lion's share is probably not accurate, yet that notion kinda still manages to live on and probably always will.
 

Fortyfives

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To put Bickell on Stan is crazy talk. He signed a key player in delivering the 2013 cup who immediately fell off a cliff. There constant posts over the course of the next several years on here questioning what the hell was wrong with the guy. There were moments on the ice where he couldn't even stay on his skates. No one knew what was going on. Turned out the guy had MS. I question your level of empathy if you don't understand what kind of impact that has on someones life.

If you could have predicted his fate you should be curing cancer let alone being a GM of a hockey team.
 

Putt Pirate

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Dec 15, 2015
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Many people on here (including me on my old moniker) said that was at least a $1MM per year overpay. People were glad he was signed but Stan definitely overpaid him. Regardless of his illness.
 

ColdSteel2

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Aug 27, 2010
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To put Bickell on Stan is crazy talk. He signed a key player in delivering the 2013 cup who immediately fell off a cliff. There constant posts over the course of the next several years on here questioning what the hell was wrong with the guy. There were moments on the ice where he couldn't even stay on his skates. No one knew what was going on. Turned out the guy had MS. I question your level of empathy if you don't understand what kind of impact that has on someones life.

If you could have predicted his fate you should be curing cancer let alone being a GM of a hockey team.

Agreed, especially on the empathy part. Hawks had a lot of bad juju around them followed by a ton of good juju and now some bad juju again. Better to be in the loop than out I say. The only way to fight through the bad times is to keep fighting. It’s been bad though, BB falls off the cliff, Seabs falls off the cliff, Hossa can’t play anymore, Toews and Keith declining unexpectedly young. We’re paying a very heavy price. One can only hope something very good is in the brew, hopefully a top 5 pick.
Stay positive, it’s not any one person’s fault everything fell apart. This is not the time to look for a scapegoat. We just need to take a step back, be honest about what we have going good and what the problems are and solve them pragmatically. Stan is doing that. This stuff takes time to recover from. I’m just really hoping part of what is coming is a bottom finish and a top pick. We need someone(s) new and exciting to join this team and rejuvenate it.
I envision Toews and Kane doing what Thornton and Marleau could not, complementing and at times carrying a new young Blackhawks team to a Cup. There is a lot to be positive about during this tough season. Debrincat is going to be a perennial 30 goal man and he is only 19. Schmaltz is a legit top 6 player with room to grow. Forsling is going to be a top 4 D-man who puts up impressive point totals and he is very young too. Forsberg shows promise in goal. The system is flush with talent, particularly on D. Good things are happpening and better things are coming. Patience is the key. You can’t rush success, it’s a snowball that builds in momentum and size and it’s happening for us. We’re still very lucky that we have the team we have.
 

b1e9a8r5s

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Bickell was a risky contract before the MS was an issue. Go back and look at the signing thread. I've linked it several times.

I agree with that, but I don't think you can separate it from the MS issue either. I'll put it this way. Bickell is probably overpaid 1-1.5 if he doesn't make any significant jump on what he had done to that point. I agree, that's probably how it would have played out, without the MS. But that wouldn't have cost you Tuevo to get rid of him, if he doesn't get MS and that's the real issue.
 

LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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I agree with that, but I don't think you can separate it from the MS issue either. I'll put it this way. Bickell is probably overpaid 1-1.5 if he doesn't make any significant jump on what he had done to that point. I agree, that's probably how it would have played out, without the MS. But that wouldn't have cost you Tuevo to get rid of him, if he doesn't get MS and that's the real issue.
the main thing that keeps coming to my mind was the day before draft day trade that would have sent BB to Arz and at the last second, SB went in and asked for more than a 3rd i believe that Arz was offering.
 

Pez68

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Mar 18, 2010
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Agreed, especially on the empathy part. Hawks had a lot of bad juju around them followed by a ton of good juju and now some bad juju again. Better to be in the loop than out I say. The only way to fight through the bad times is to keep fighting. It’s been bad though, BB falls off the cliff, Seabs falls off the cliff, Hossa can’t play anymore, Toews and Keith declining unexpectedly young. We’re paying a very heavy price. One can only hope something very good is in the brew, hopefully a top 5 pick.
Stay positive, it’s not any one person’s fault everything fell apart. This is not the time to look for a scapegoat. We just need to take a step back, be honest about what we have going good and what the problems are and solve them pragmatically. Stan is doing that. This stuff takes time to recover from. I’m just really hoping part of what is coming is a bottom finish and a top pick. We need someone(s) new and exciting to join this team and rejuvenate it.
I envision Toews and Kane doing what Thornton and Marleau could not, complementing and at times carrying a new young Blackhawks team to a Cup. There is a lot to be positive about during this tough season. Debrincat is going to be a perennial 30 goal man and he is only 19. Schmaltz is a legit top 6 player with room to grow. Forsling is going to be a top 4 D-man who puts up impressive point totals and he is very young too. Forsberg shows promise in goal. The system is flush with talent, particularly on D. Good things are happpening and better things are coming. Patience is the key. You can’t rush success, it’s a snowball that builds in momentum and size and it’s happening for us. We’re still very lucky that we have the team we have.

Just to clarify...Keith is 5 years older than Toews, and his decline has really just started. Unexpectedly young does not apply to Keith. I think the jury is still out, as well. He's playing with an AHL caliber partner... We need to see him with a real D partner before he can be written off.

Toews has been declining for a couple years...

A guy starting to decline at 34 and 1/2 is to be expected. A guy starting to decline at 27 is almost unheard of.

Not to even get into the fact that Toews is making TWICE what Keith is.
 

Marotte Marauder

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Aug 10, 2008
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Bicks looked like a guy who would flourish. He was fairly young, talented and --- at the time when it was assumed that he was healthy --- the payment was only modestly inflated (actually not bad at all). it turned out that Bicks was sick, he did not play to his potential because he was sick and the deal looked bad in view of that. That is, the Bicks deal was "bad" only in that the guy got bad sick --- no one could predict that.

Bickell was unfortunate to get sick but the rap on him was inconsistent and lazy play throughout his entire career.

The only times that he performed were contract years.

Sad he got sick, but it was a bad signing as many posted at the time. No revisionist history here.
 
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Hawkaholic

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Dec 19, 2006
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It wasn't a great signing, but it was made much worse once Bickell became unhealthy. There is no way we would have had to package TT with him had he been healthy still.
 

LDF

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Sep 28, 2016
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PP2 makes more sense than PP1....
really, i thought Rutta and here i would have a problem. i know that sharp would be the other d-man on this line, but maybe hayden, hino or hell another d-man to compliment rutta.
 

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