Coach John Hynes Discussion

[Bleedred]

for the record, i personally (and i'm sure a few others) are certainly not for giving him ALL the credit, but it's a bit extreme to attribute none of it flat out

i definitely agree he's not a "game breaking" coach, but i'd like to at least just get back to the playoffs. i don't know how one can evaluate whether such a coach is of that pedigree or not though.

but one factor, for sure, is if it's a likable coach for the players, as in one whom they'd be willing to play for. and it's been said that he's a prime example, so that's something, no matter small

Obviously, with the team winning right now, I don’t think many are gonna crucify him. I think we’re playing the same way as last year and the year before, only creating more chances and giving up even more chances. Cory improving has led to us staying in and winning more games. Cory probably made Hynes look a lot worse than he really is last year, but he also stood on his head the year before and made him look a lot better than he really is in 2015-2016.

Bump this thing if we go into tailspin, and I think some people will be doing a real 180.

As for me, I’ve been firmly a non-supporter of his all through this season and last.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I thought Zacha looked good last night so he should get more minutes tomorrow (hopefully, if not then I will put that on the coach).

What did I miss?

I thought he had one noticeably good shift, then I didnt notice him the rest of the game. Not saying he was bad, but not good either, just average.

 

[Nocashstyle]

No, I didn’t imply the Devils had a stacked roster.

Okay, fair enough. So if we come out and suck next year or collapse down the stretch and just back into the playoffs, will you say Hynes deserves any of the blame? Because I don’t think winning is sustainable with this system. Reminds me of Patrick Roy and Carlyle.

Absolutely. A good coach is able to get his team to play to their strengths and hold players accountable. If they start stinking it up, Hynes would certainly deserve blame in the same way he current deserves credit right now. If something isn't working, NHL Calibre coaches should be able to make adjustments at the right time.

As a fanbase, we are not all going to agree with every lineup and game decision, but if you look at the big picture right now, Hynes is doing a lot with a little.

 

[NjDevsRR]

What did I miss?

I thought he had one noticeably good shift, then I didnt notice him the rest of the game. Not saying he was bad, but not good either, just average.

In his limited time he controlled the puck well along the boards in the offensive zone and took the puck to the net.

 

[mtnet]

Not going to enter into the cage match Re: Hynes but this thread seemed a good excuse for

 

[Saugus]

I don't think there is much to complain about with Hynes. The standings speak for themselves, with a roster that was not expected to contend.

There's that old saying, teams show you what they really are by American Thanksgiving. This isn't a fluke. Hynes has gotten them to play above their ability on paper. Whatever tactical decisions we disagree with, I think he deserves credit for that.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't think there is much to complain about with Hynes. The standings speak for themselves, with a roster that was not expected to contend.

There's that old saying, teams show you what they really are by American Thanksgiving. This isn't a fluke. Hynes has gotten them to play above their ability on paper. Whatever tactical decisions we disagree with, I think he deserves credit for that.

There’s usually at least one team in the league that makes the playoffs every year, while playing sort of like this, and they usually don’t make it back the next year. Colorado in 13-14 is one example, Calgary in 14-15, Florida in 15-16. Ottawa in 14-15 is another example, Leafs in the recent lockout year. Hynes system looks a lot like Roy’s. I don’t even know who it was last year. Looked like Columbus early on, but they seemed to not be riding insane shooting percentages so much, as it looked early on.

 

[OmNomNom]

i'll definitely bump this thread if we tailspin, but if we don't and this isn't a one off season fluke, i'm leaving this here for some eats

 

[Bleedred]

i'll definitely bump this thread if we tailspin, but if we don't and this isn't a one off season fluke, i'm leaving this here for some eats

Fair enough, but I’ll only eat him if we make the playoffs this year, then repeat it next year.

I’m not gonna eat crow on one playoff appearance. Patrick Roy has a playoff berth, and is one of the worst NHL head coaches in recent years, not including guys who were gone after 30 games like Johnny Mac.

And if he can change this system a bit, to make us do the same things on offense, while tightening up our game the other way, I’ll give him a ton of credit.

 

[OmNomNom]

Fair enough, but I’ll only eat him if we make the playoffs this year, then repeat it next year.

I’m not gonna eat crow on one playoff appearance. Patrick Roy has a playoff berth, and is one of the worst NHL head coaches in recent years, not including guys who were gone after 30 games like Johnny Mac.

And if he can change this system a bit, to make us do the same things on offense, while tightening up our game the other way, I’ll give him a ton of credit.

that's gonna be an old crow

i'll totally eat a chunk though, if he doesn't change the system. like, he at least needs to do that to adjust on the fly, and if that means changing his coaching staff, so be it

 

[My3Sons]

And once again, how about playing not to lose? His dinosaur system that sucks and pretty much advocates sitting on one goal leads and defending rather than continuing to attack? I’ve been complaining about him since before it became cool this year. This has been my issue with him the entire time now.

And the Jack Adams means NOTHING to me. I call it the Jackass Adams these days.

Patrick Roy and Bob Hartley won this award in back to back years. Both teams regressed the next year and they wound up looking not very good.

When Lemaire was coach and the trap was becoming the NJ style of play I can recall Lemaire being criticized as coaching not to lose. I think that is more common than we think. I don’t envy Hynes. He’s got to juggle vets that want to win right now and kids that need coddling - in PZ’s case maybe more of a counselor than a coach. He’s got to try to play Shero’s preferred system which wants both speed and finesse somehow combined with grit and pushback - essentially a unicorn team that probably doesn’t exist outside of dynasty teams of the past.

The personnel he has to work with are very discordant. His vets by and large play an old school game - with an approach you rightly identified - while outside of Hall his most skilled or “Shero system friendly players” are in their first couple of seasons or rookies. That’s a badly constructed roster - not saying it’s anyone’s fault since Shero is doing a great job but he has had to almost completely remake the team.

That said he comes across to me as a run of the mill coach who is doing what a typical coach does with a young team. When the young guys can get their feet moving he looks smart. Against big and equally fast teams he doesn’t look smart. Plus he can only go to the whip so many times before the players tune him out. Rico is an example. He was publicly called out and he responded but I doubt Rico’s intensity lasts all season. He is who he is and you will get sporadic bursts from him. How many more times can Hynes call out Rico or sit PZ before he loses them?

To me until the team has a legit 4 deep in defense and a consistent and complete top six - look at the WPG group for an example of a young complete top six up front - NJ can only expect to go so far. I’d be happy if his emphasis is on developing he young players - even if it means giving PZ ice time he hasn’t yet earned if that will make him a better player.

I’m not an advocate of desperately trying to compete in the short term if it costs long term success - I’m not advocating tanking either but just staying the course. I’m building around the youngest part of the roster and making decisions accordingly. If the vets aren’t on board with that they aren’t part of the solution. If Hall wants a seven year extension presumably he sees the wisdom in a proper and thorough revamp of the team.

Maybe Hynes is part of that or maybe he is gone in two more years when another wave of young players with skill hits the roster - McLeod Boquist etc. For now I’m not sure any coach could really do much better if he tries to placate the vets and develop the kids.

 

[billingtons ghost]

It is tough to gauge how premature this conversation is. The characteristics that make a 'good' coach evolve as the team evolves. He might be a terrible playoff coach.

Right now, his handling of the young players (and getting the most of them) seems to be very good - and the results of their 'development' is mixed - Zacha is the exception.

The team seemingly quit at the end of last year - this is probably his biggest black mark.

To Shero and Lou's credit, the team doesn't have morale/personality issues - there aren't many prima donnas - so that isn't an issue today.

The icetime and the in-game decisions have been fairly consistent.

I hate line swapping and I think it hurt us in the past - but I think the lines have been consistent and good this year.

Outside of that?

 

[Tundra]

Tough to slag on a potential Jack Adams candidate. And he's doing it with premature kids.

 

[Edmonton East]

...I can't understand using the possession argument against Hynes. This team isn't built to be a heavy possession team. They aren't built to cycle endlessly. They are built to generate chances off counters and the rush.

Good lord. Yes, there is a correlation between strong possession hockey and future success. Common sense would tell you that without even looking at numbers. Is it the only way to build a successful team? No.

 

[Missionhockey]

He's got a team with 3 rookies playing extraordinarily prominent roles at the top of the division and people are complaining about the coach.

Oh and he also had his top center out for most of the season so far and had two top wingers out at various times (MoJo and Palmieri).

I understand people need things to complain about he's done about as well as you can possibly hope for this year.

 

[Nubmer6]

I don't think playing not to lose is the full story. Lots of teams do that. The problem is, this one isn't built to be able to do that. We've got to attack to be effective, at least until we get some better D.

Also, my problem isn't with Hynes, at least not this year. I certainly think he made some horrible personnel decisions in the last couple years, but I applaud his decisions to bench Lovejoy, demote Henrique, bench Wood for the opener, etc. Yeah, we're gonna disagree with some decisions, but not only has he been better this year, he seems to be pulling the right strings with the demotions and benchings. It's worked in just about all cases except Zacha so far.

I've said this before the season started... my gripe is with Nasreddine. I just don't like the style he coaches. I honestly think that, while we definitely need an upgrade on D, we could get more out of what we have with a better D coach.

 

[JrFischer54]

I’m not a big Hynes fan. Sure he gets credit for the team being in first but also he gets the credit for the defense being horrible and some of the questionable roster moves. Boyle should sit for a game or two every couple games but that won’t happen. Zacha getting scratched is insane heck just totally destroy the kids trade value if you don’t even like him.

 

[mtnet]

Last year we were playing not to win, so playing not to lose was at least a step in the right direction

 

[OmNomNom]

I’m not a big Hynes fan. Sure he gets credit for the team being in first but also he gets the credit for the defense being horrible and some of the questionable roster moves. Boyle should sit for a game or two every couple games but that won’t happen. Zacha getting scratched is insane heck just totally destroy the kids trade value if you don’t even like him.

but personnel is up to ray and injuries just happen

i do agree nasreddine should be really closely looked at, but we don't have a lot of quality defensively

i miss merrill

 

[Devils090]

I’m not a big Hynes fan. Sure he gets credit for the team being in first but also he gets the credit for the defense being horrible and some of the questionable roster moves. Boyle should sit for a game or two every couple games but that won’t happen. Zacha getting scratched is insane heck just totally destroy the kids trade value if you don’t even like him.

Hynes can't write down Karlsson and Hedman for his pairs, we have who we have and knew coming in the defense was the weak point of the team. If anything Hynes surprised most of us by having LJ a scratch most of the time until Mirco went down. Boyle is good on face offs, and is the only player on the team with size minus Hayes who is awful, it makes no sense to sit him. Zacha didn't have much trade value to begin with and it's only getting lower since he hasn't produced. He hasn't be gifted the best line mates but at some point you'd expect him to actually make an impact regardless, and he hasn't come close.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Hynes earned 67 points from the NHL.com panel, nine more than Gerard Gallant (Vegas Golden Knights). Jon Cooper (Tampa Bay Lightning) is third with 52 points. Mike Yeo (St. Louis Blues) received 38.

Voting totals (points awarded on a 5-4-3-2-1- basis): John Hynes, Devils, 67 points (six first-place votes); Gerard Gallant, Golden Knights, 58 (5); Jon Cooper, Lightning, 52 (6); Mike Yeo, Blues, 38 (1); John Stevens, Los Angeles Kings, 30; Paul Maurice, Winnipeg Jets, 10; Travis Green, Vancouver Canucks, 7; Mike Babcock, Toronto Maple Leafs, 4; Guy Boucher, Ottawa Senators, 3; Mike Sullivan, Pittsburgh Penguins, 1

Hynes leading Adams Award race

 

[Bleedred]

It’s pretty obvious that Hynes will get the Jack Adams if we make the playoffs. That’s just how it goes.

Unless Vancouver or Vegas make the playoffs, they might give it to Gallant or Green, since those teams were consensus lottery contenders. I don’t think either of those teams will get in though.

 

[Darkauron]

Interesting soon we will hear this then: Hynes resigned for 3 years

 

[Bleedred]

Interesting soon we will hear this then: Hynes resigned for 3 years

I’d wait until we clinch for that....

 

[MartyOwns]

he's fine. once we're ready to seriously compete in a few years, it will be time for a change, and we'll bring in someone who isn't a giant scrotem on shoulders. hell, it might line up with vigneault getting canned from the rangers (not that i'd necessarily want him).