Helene St. James Cleary could be re-signed, but not play

[Henkka]

Funniest thing is, when people already argue about Cleary's possible role at Griffins.

"He's blocking a prospect to develop!"

Griffins is already against the veteran limit, so Cleary at Griffins would push only another veteran to Toledo or something. Poor Grant, Zombo, Zengerle or Hirschfeld. Same amount of prospects will play, with or without Cleary.

I'd like to see him mentoring guys like Bertuzzi and Nastasiuk to be effective grinders in NHL. Or maybe Cleary is the key factor, who would push Mantha mentally back on track. From his own example, how he almost ruined his own career as a former 1st round pick. Who knows.

In reality, if Cleary is out of the NHL roster, there's only positives in him. It's totally stupid to specutale anything else. This hate is just so overblown. :

 

[Heaton]

I'm not sure I understand the question?

The Wings have tried to dump a guy like Kindl for years, yet with a new coach he is looking to get a clean slate even though it has been shown he's not good enough to have a roster slot. Why wouldn't Cleary get the same treatment? If he's in the AHL and there's injuries, there's no doubt Cleary would get a look at some point.

 

[Frk It]

The Wings have tried to dump a guy like Kindl for years, yet with a new coach he is looking to get a clean slate even though it has been shown he's not good enough to have a roster slot. Why wouldn't Cleary get the same treatment? If he's in the AHL and there's injuries, there's no doubt Cleary would get a look at some point.

Why?

Cleary playing was due large in part to his relationship with Babcock. Do you think Cleary is one of the best 14 forwards we have? Do you think he will do better than our best prospects in GR?

If everyone is getting a clean slate, and on-ice play is the main determining factor in people playing, I'm really not worried about Cleary playing a lot of games for the Wings.

Maybe he get's a call-up in the spring so he can play his final game as a Wing or something, but I really don't see him playing much, there's just no room.

Also could see him training to be ready in case there is any injuries in camp, and then retiring instead of actually going to GR.

 

[Winger98]

There is absolutely no issue. Why can't people understand that. He got passed over last year while he was the 14th forward on the Wing's club. He wasn't a problem then and he isn't a problem now.

Him taking cap and roster space is a problem. We're better off rolling with 13 forwards and banking the cap space for later in the year.

Funniest thing is, when people already argue about Cleary's possible role at Griffins.

"He's blocking a prospect to develop!"

Griffins is already against the veteran limit, so Cleary at Griffins would push only another veteran to Toledo or something. Poor Grant, Zombo, Zengerle or Hirschfeld. Same amount of prospects will play, with or without Cleary.

I'd like to see him mentoring guys like Bertuzzi and Nastasiuk to be effective grinders in NHL. Or maybe Cleary is the key factor, who would push Mantha mentally back on track. From his own example, how he almost ruined his own career as a former 1st round pick. Who knows.

In reality, if Cleary is out of the NHL roster, there's only positives in him. It's totally stupid to specutale anything else. This hate is just so overblown. :

I don't think it's stupid to speculate about him getting called up and not wanting that even as an option, but I agree about it being overblown. I think he's taking a good chunk of displaced heat for Holland over it. I mean, I don't think any of us want Cleary on the Wings, but so we gripe about him being at all close to it, when the reality is Holland is the one who needs to not extend the contract offer.

Unless god has miraculously healed his knees, I wish Cleary would look in the mirror and admit he just doesn't have the legs to be an effective NHLer any more. I'd really like to see him as a coach/instructor.

 

[Heaton]

Why?

Cleary playing was due large in part to his relationship with Babcock. Do you think Cleary is one of the best 14 forwards we have? Do you think he will do better than our best prospects in GR?

If everyone is getting a clean slate, and on-ice play is the main determining factor in people playing, I'm really not worried about Cleary playing a lot of games for the Wings.

Maybe he get's a call-up in the spring so he can play his final game as a Wing or something, but I really don't see him playing much, there's just no room.

Also could see him training to be ready in case there is any injuries in camp, and then retiring instead of actually going to GR.

It won't be, and you know that.

 

[Frk It]

It won't be, and you know that.

Well, I thought that was what you meant by clean slate?

 

[Heaton]

Well, I thought that was what you meant by clean slate?

To me, clean slate just means Babcock's opinions aren't 'as valid' anymore. I'm being petty, but Holland loves to give players swan songs. Maybe this will be a Maltby situation, but Cleary is in a world of his own and has gotten treatment unlike any other player we've seen. So I can't think rationally about this situation.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Lidstrom and Rafalski stopped. And as way better players. That's just a generalization.

Rafalski didn't really stop though.

 

[Bench]

People loved Cleary until he stopped producing. It's not that complicated. Sports is a production based affair. This is particularly true of guys that are career role players.

The hate, though, is misdirected. Holland gave him contracts. Babcock gave him ice. Cleary is just working his ass off and trying to contribute as always.

 

[chances14]

Rafalski didn't really stop though.

that's true. rafalski did try a comeback with some echl team so he still had some sort of urge to keep playing hockey

 

[chances14]

No, I think this is the exception to the rule. Most long time NHL'ers don't accept ending their career in the AHL. And by the same token, most long time Wings haven't accepted ending their career in Grand Rapids.

Most guys would rather retire if it came to that.

agreed. but that's why i said "until they stop getting contract offers they like"

my point was majority of players don't just give up playing pro hockey willingly. they are forced into it either by injuries or they aren't offered a contract they like

 

[Vyacheslav]

Guy wants to keep working, who wouldn't? I don't want Cleary on the team really, but if he is signed it's not his problem, he is a hockey player and he wants to keep playing. Who can blame him for that? The organization can say no at any time.

 

[FissionFire]

Cleary has gone from one of my favorite players to the one player I can't wait to get rid of. I hope they don't sign him again.

 

[Henkka]

Cleary has gone from one of my favorite players to the one player I can't wait to get rid of. I hope they don't sign him again.

Same for me, but I'm not against his contract if he is out of NHL and considered only as a call-up if there's a massive injury logjam. Until that happens, he's not gonna see NHL ice. He could help our AHL guys very very much.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I didn't know that, but that is good news. Thanks.

I guess it doesn't hurt much at all then, but I really don't see why he wants to do that.

As opposed to painting his bathroom?

Wasn't Chelios playing in the AHL at age 47 or something?

It's a game. Guys play hockey for free. Why not play it for a few hundred thousand dollars instead?

 

[Vyacheslav]

I highly doubt there are many people here who would turn down an offer to make a lot of money to play a game because they feel it's not good of the team. It's easy to talk a good game when you're never going to be in the situation though.

Not only do guys play hockey for free, they pay for the privilege a lot of times.

 

[Bench]

I highly doubt there are many people here who would turn down an offer to make a lot of money to play a game because they feel it's not good of the team. It's easy to talk a good game when you're never going to be in the situation though.

Not only do guys play hockey for free, they pay for the privilege a lot of times.

Pretty much.

Cleary's only responsibility is to bust ass. It's the GM and coach who determine the rest.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Maybe I've missed something here, but if we're signing Cleary to go play in the AHL and "mentor the kids", why don't we just sign him to an AHL contract, and save the NHL cap space?

 

[Henkka]

Maybe I've missed something here, but if we're signing Cleary to go play in the AHL and "mentor the kids", why don't we just sign him to an AHL contract, and save the NHL cap space?

It doesn't make any difference (for the cap space) if he signs under 950k.

 

[odin1981]

Wasn't Chelios playing in the AHL at age 47 or something?

Yes he was. But he specifically said he wanted to play 1 year with his son(s). He also wasn't counted towards any teams contract limits or cap either it was a straight AHL only deal. And really what is the big deal if a sure fire HHOF wants to play one year with his kids taking up a veteran spot for a AHL team?

So his situation has absolutely nothing to do with Cleary who wants us to waste a contract and cap on him to be ****ing useless. Last year was all we needed to see of him but even then he shouldn't have made the roster either. He took up 2.5 million in cap space and essentially wasted one of our back up forward spots. And the games he got in to get his bonus where atrocious.

 

[odin1981]

It doesn't make any difference (for the cap space) if he signs under 950k.

Not exactly because he is over 35 we can only save like around 100k from demoting him to the minors.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not exactly because he is over 35 we can only save like around 100k from demoting him to the minors.

I don't believe you are correct in this determination.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Not exactly because he is over 35 we can only save like around 100k from demoting him to the minors.

i don't think that applies to 1yr deals.

 

[Henkka]

i don't think that applies to 1yr deals.

Yeah, it goes with that 100k only for multi-year deals for +35 aged contracts.

That was the biggest obstacle with that last Sammy contract why we couldn't send him down.

It wouldn't have created any real cap help to call anybody up.

 

[SirKillalot]

Detroit must be giving Grand Rapids some money from before?

Send $950k extra and let them sign him to an AHL-contract, if he wants to try and play that bad.

Otherwise, sign him as staff somewhere.