Claude Lemieux = HHOF?

Status
Not open for further replies.

reckoning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
7,012
1,251
Hasbro said:
If Richter does, he's going to have to get alot of leeway due to injuries and the Rangers collapsing around him and alot of credit for the Cup and the World Cup.

Had Richter played in St. Louis or Washington then he would be borderline, but playing in New York makes him a lock. It`s not fair, but worse players than Richter have benefitted from playing in high-profile cities.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Keep in mind that the Hall voting is much different than baseball. In baseball, it's a large number of sportswriters. In hockey, it's an 18-man panel with various people - former coaches, GMs, players and current media members - who worked in various locations. The New York location won't be a factor. But Vernon had a much better career than Richter, and has been turned down once, so I don't see Richter getting in.
 

Tao Jersey Jones

Registered User
Sep 28, 2003
16,771
7,655
Plainfield, NJ
discostu said:
I think there's more to Lemieux under this category. He brought diving as a tactic to the game. I'm sure he wasn't the first to do it, but, he's the first one to really make it a regular part of his routine. It's not something that many people associate as a positive trait, but, it goes hand-in-hand with his reputation as a clutch performer. He'd do anything out there to help his team win.

Today, diving is one of the biggest issues the sport is facing. It's on the rise, as players try to draw more penalties. Without Lemieux, I'm not certain it would be as much as an issue as it is today.

Did he revolutionize the game? Absolutely. Was it in a way that the NHL wants to recognize with a HOF induction? Probably not.

Think diving will keep Forsberg out of the HHOF? :dunno:
 

brianscot

Registered User
Jan 1, 2003
1,415
17
Halifax, NS
Visit site
I believe that Frank Brimsek is the only American born goalie in the hockey hall of fame.

If someone is to follow him, I think Tom Barrasso should be inducted before Mike Richter.

Barrasso was unique in stepping right out of high school and into the NHL, he won two cups in Pittsburgh and actually finished with more career victories and shut outs than Richter.
 

reckoning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
7,012
1,251
Tao Jones said:
Think diving will keep Forsberg out of the HHOF? :dunno:

No. Not being able to stay healthy will keep Forsberg out. Or at least it should. His situation is no different than that of Eric Lindros.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
reckoning said:
No. Not being able to stay healthy will keep Forsberg out. Or at least it should. His situation is no different than that of Eric Lindros.


Actually, Forsberg has accomplished enough, when healthy, to be in the Hall. Lindros has not.
 

reckoning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
7,012
1,251
Ogopogo said:
Actually, Forsberg has accomplished enough, when healthy, to be in the Hall. Lindros has not.

OK, where exactly do you draw the line for being good enough for the Hall? Usually you`re saying so-and-so shouldn`t be there because they were only very good but not great. Exactly how does "Glass Body" Forsberg qualify as great?
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
reckoning said:
OK, where exactly do you draw the line for being good enough for the Hall? Usually you`re saying so-and-so shouldn`t be there because they were only very good but not great. Exactly how does "Glass Body" Forsberg qualify as great?


Well, if I was at my own computer, I would spell it out. But, since I am not, I will generalize. He has finished well up in the scoring race on several occasions and basically, has been dominant for a good 5-7 years of his career. His kind of dominance for as many seasons he had done it it HOF worthy.

I have a formula worked out but, it is not accessible to me right now.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
reckoning said:
OK, where exactly do you draw the line for being good enough for the Hall? Usually you`re saying so-and-so shouldn`t be there because they were only very good but not great. Exactly how does "Glass Body" Forsberg qualify as great?
Forsberg played a key role in Colorado's 1996 Stanley Cup victory. He was impressive in Colorado's run in 2001 until a spleen injury knocked him out. He has enjoyed several terrific playoffs. The playoff memory most of us have for Lindros is the choke job in 1997 against Detroit, when he went from a Conn Smythe favourite to MIA in a hurry.

Lindros also hasn't done a thing since his 26th birthday. He's missed time due to injuries, and when he's been healthy, he's been a shadow of his former self. Forsberg has been a consistently dominant player since he entered the league. With the exception of his rookie year, he has generally been regarded as one of the top 10 players in the game.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,130
6,428
(A small point below needs to be made about a guy who needs an MVP season or another Cup to make it into the HHOF)

Forsberg is by no means GLASS.

He's gotten internal injuries because he's a ROCK who absorbs hits rather than rolling with the blow.

Rocks crack and break, often from internal fissures first. It's a much better analogy.

Forsberg with the puck is the closest thing to a boulder I've ever seen on skates. His fortitude is exceptional.
 

stu the grim reaper

Registered User
Jul 3, 2002
1,281
8
id like to be able to say yes
especially as a wings fan
but gwgs or not
claude lemieux was not someone who could take over a game
and i think thats an important attribute of an HOFer
 

Hasbro

Family Friend
Sponsor
Apr 1, 2004
52,407
16,372
South Rectangle
God Bless Canada said:
Keep in mind that the Hall voting is much different than baseball. In baseball, it's a large number of sportswriters. In hockey, it's an 18-man panel with various people - former coaches, GMs, players and current media members - who worked in various locations. The New York location won't be a factor. But Vernon had a much better career than Richter, and has been turned down once, so I don't see Richter getting in.
I do think Being in NY helps Richter, however the only place I think carries anyone is Toronto.
 

NJD Jester

Registered User
Nov 14, 2003
960
0
DC
www.njdevilsbook.com
stu the grim reaper said:
id like to be able to say yes
especially as a wings fan
but gwgs or not
claude lemieux was not someone who could take over a game
and i think thats an important attribute of an HOFer

How many games did Mike Gartner "take over?"
 

Psycho Papa Joe

Porkchop Hoser
Feb 27, 2002
23,347
17
Cesspool, Ontario
Visit site
stu the grim reaper said:
id like to be able to say yes
especially as a wings fan
but gwgs or not
claude lemieux was not someone who could take over a game
and i think thats an important attribute of an HOFer
I guess you didn't watch the 1986 and 1995 playoffs. In 86 he was runner up for the Conn and he won it in 1995, because he took over games. Without his efforts, both those teams would not have got past the 2nd round.
 

David Puddy

Registered User
Nov 15, 2003
5,824
2
New Jersey, USA
Visit site
reckoning said:
Had Richter played in St. Louis or Washington then he would be borderline, but playing in New York makes him a lock. It`s not fair, but worse players than Richter have benefitted from playing in high-profile cities.
A look at at Daryl Shilling's Goaltender Monitor shows Mike Richter to be way down the list.

Also, Richter has never been named to an end-of-season All-Star Team.
 

Higgy4

Registered User
Jan 18, 2004
7,548
0
Toledo, Ohio
NJD Jester said:
How many games did Mike Gartner "take over?"

Mike Gartner almost had as many career goals as Lemieux had points.

Lets not be silly. I understand the clutch performer that Claude was in the playoffs. But the Hall should be a reflection of your entire career.

I know this has been beaten to DEATH. But 700 goals in the NHL GETS YOU IN THE HALL!

Period.
 

pnep

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
2,907
1,182
Novosibirsk,Russia
David Puddy said:
A look at at Daryl Shilling's Goaltender Monitor shows Mike Richter to be way down the list.

Also, Richter has never been named to an end-of-season All-Star Team.

Again...
Its my reasearch!!! :)

In a previous study, Hall of Fame Monitor, I outlined a statistical method for determining the likelihood that a player would/should receive induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame. My monitor inspired a read of the site, Roman Nepomnyaschev, to build his own system for application to goaltenders, and sent it to me. I present the results here, but the work here is completely and totally Roman’s baby.
 

pnep

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
2,907
1,182
Novosibirsk,Russia
new version (added Projected Award Winners and make formula corrections):

"HHOF Monitor" (Goalie only)

# -- HHOF MONITOR -- HHOF? -- GOALIE NAME
====================================
001 -- 3107,76 -- - -- Hasek Dominik
002 -- 3012,27 -- - -- Roy Patrick
003 -- 2979,24 -- Y -- Hall Glenn
004 -- 2847,61 -- Y -- Plante Jacques
005 -- 2577,79 -- Y -- Sawchuk Terry
006 -- 2401,10 -- Y -- Dryden Ken
007 -- 2072,78 -- Y -- Benedict Clint
008 -- 2001,07 -- Y -- Brimsek Frank
009 -- 1944,31 -- Y -- Durnan Bill
010 -- 1791,17 -- - -- Brodeur Martin
011 -- 1756,15 -- Y -- Vezina Georges
012 -- 1674,55 -- Y -- Broda Turk
013 -- 1672,84 -- Y -- Esposito Tony
014 -- 1633,43 -- Y -- Thompson Tiny
015 -- 1513,53 -- Y -- Bower Johnny
016 -- 1481,09 -- - -- Belfour Ed
017 -- 1460,51 -- Y -- Parent Bernie
018 -- 1366,91 -- Y -- Hainsworth George
019 -- 1306,50 -- Y -- Lumley Harry
020 -- 1265,38 -- Y -- Fuhr Grant
021 -- 1224,43 -- Y -- Giacomin Ed
022 -- 1223,82 -- Y -- Smith Billy
023 -- 1201,21 -- Y -- Worsley Lorne Gump
024 -- 1186,76 -- - -- Barrasso Tom
025 -- 1089,09 -- Y -- Connell Alex
026 -- 1005,14 -- Y -- Gardiner Chuck
027 -- 0951,00 -- - -- Vernon Mike
028 -- 0931,22 -- - -- Liut Mike
029 -- 0923,69 -- - -- Vachon Rogie
030 -- 0905,03 -- Y -- Worters Roy
031 -- 0877,71 -- - -- Rayner Chuck
032 -- 0811,80 -- - -- Rollins Al
033 -- 0788,96 -- - -- Hodge Charlie
034 -- 0778,78 -- - -- Peeters Pete
035 -- 0778,00 -- - -- Kerr Dave
036 -- 0740,99 -- - -- Hextall Ron
037 -- 0734,23 -- - -- Crozier Roger
038 -- 0692,58 -- - -- Resch Glenn
039 -- 0646,73 -- - -- Larocque Michel R.
040 -- 0619,56 -- - -- Vanbiesbrouck John
041 -- 0600,63 -- - -- Smith Norm
042 -- 0572,87 -- - -- Osgood Chris
043 -- 0567,87 -- - -- Mowers John
044 -- 0530,55 -- - -- Moog Andy
045 -- 0516,80 -- - -- Theodore Jose
046 -- 0500,65 -- - -- Chabot Lorne
047 -- 0492,26 -- - -- Roach John
048 -- 0487,08 -- - -- Karakas Mike
049 -- 0475,88 -- - -- Mcneil Gerry
050 -- 0464,85 -- - -- Melanson Rollie
051 -- 0432,43 -- Y -- Cheevers Gerry
.
057 -- 0357,08 -- - -- Kolzig Olaf
.
059 -- 0318,20 -- - -- Turco Marty
.
064 -- 0300,98 -- - -- Joseph Curtis
.
069 -- 0273,00 -- - -- Giguere Jean Sebastien
.
076 -- 0224,20 -- - -- Richter Mike
.
078 -- 0220,20 -- - -- Nabokov Evgeni
.
080 -- 0194,93 -- - -- Khabibulin Nikolai
.
086 -- 0176,01 -- Y -- Holmes Harry Hap
087 -- 0175,04 -- - -- Potvin Felix
.
091 -- 0163,00 -- - -- Raycroft Andrew
.
100 -- 0139,60 -- - -- Kiprusoff Miikka
101 -- 0136,42 -- - -- Irbe Arturs
.
103 -- 0126,00 -- - -- Luongo Roberto
.
107 -- 0117,36 -- - -- Burke Sean
.
113 -- 0102,14 -- - -- Salo Tommy
 
Last edited:

Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
8,440
4,269
My gut reaction would be no, Claude Lemieux is not a hall of famer but I don't believe it's as simple as that. I think it's a valid point that too much emphasis may be placed on regular season numbers.

Why is Billy Smith in the hall of fame? I don't think it has alot to do with all star nominations or regular season awards. He's there because of his individual and team accomplishments in the playoffs.

And ultimately I believe the playoffs are the most important 'season'. I'm wondering if Lemieux's play would have been more appreciated back in the six team league or if he would be looked at differently without the Draper hit?

Anyway, it appears that most here saw the same player I did in the playoffs, where he was a dominating force, several times.
 

Mothra

The Groovy Guru
Jul 16, 2002
7,717
2
Parts Unknown
Visit site
Dr Love said:
6. Is he the very best hockey player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

Glenn Anderson, Mark Howe and Brad Park immediately come to mind. There are certainly others who were better players.

FYI....Brad Park is in the HOF.....
 

interminded

Registered User
Aug 10, 2005
1,074
0
Netherlands
Claude Lemieux is a moron.
And not just any moron.

He's a moron, because a player with his skills played way too dirty.
I never got that. I know he had a intense and strong style of playing, but he never seemed to know where to draw the line.
And I'm not only reffering (as a Wings fan) to the Kris Draper incident, but there a lots of examples.

And just for that, he shouldn't be in the HHOF.
IMO, a Hall of Famer should not only be a elite-player on his postion but he should be an example on and off the ice.
And with Lemieux's unsportsmanlike and ungentlemanlike conduct he is no way near that !
 

Mothra

The Groovy Guru
Jul 16, 2002
7,717
2
Parts Unknown
Visit site
discostu said:
I think there's more to Lemieux under this category. He brought diving as a tactic to the game. I'm sure he wasn't the first to do it, but, he's the first one to really make it a regular part of his routine. It's not something that many people associate as a positive trait, but, it goes hand-in-hand with his reputation as a clutch performer. He'd do anything out there to help his team win.

Today, diving is one of the biggest issues the sport is facing. It's on the rise, as players try to draw more penalties. Without Lemieux, I'm not certain it would be as much as an issue as it is today.

Did he revolutionize the game? Absolutely. Was it in a way that the NHL wants to recognize with a HOF induction? Probably not.

sorry....but I have to go out on a limb here and guess you never watched Phil Esposito play
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->