City of Hamilton backs $100K arena study with eye to NHL

[Hamilton Tigers]

...on the verge of the 30th anniversary of the opening of Copps Coliseum, the city has quietly commissioned a $100,000 report on the state of the aging arena with an eye to making it NHL-friendly.

"I think it's best characterized as us completing our homework to ensure if ever there was an opportunity, then we would be ready," says city manager Chris Murray.

How the city is going about the study is oddly creative, to say the least.

After an unsolicited approach by lawyer and consultant Jasper Kujavsky, the city contracted him in late summer to stickhandle the arena assessment as well as explore economic development opportunities such as a new convention centre in the area.

In return for a city paycheque of up to $50,000, Kujavsky drummed up private-sector funding of about $100,000, which he used to hire Toronto-based Brisbin Brook Beynon Architects (BBB), internationally recognized experts in sports-related venues whose clients include the NHL and NBA.

BBB will assess all structural and mechanical systems in the arena — now called FirstOntario Centre — to see if they can be elevated to 21st-century NHL standards.

BBB will also assess the district in terms of other sport/entertainment/hospitality opportunities.

Read more http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5947926-dreschel-city-backs-100k-arena-study-with-eye-to-nhl/

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

Good to hear. Step one.

 

[Riptide]

And as the bonus... only 50k (or up to) is coming from the city. 100k was raised by private interests. So it's not really even costing them all that much - at least now anyway. JB was going to spend around 160m in 06/07 and the lead guy guessed it would be closer to 300m today to make Copps NHL ready.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

I expect them to tell us that it would be easier just to build a new arena.

 

[Jetsfan79]

I expect them to tell us that it would be easier just to build a new arena.

In terms of cost efficiency I'd say that's certainly possible. But if they can make the economics works, it will be allot "easier" to get a major renovation approved for an existing site/building rather than getting a new arena. Allot more red tape involved with a new arena - environmental reviews, public hearings, quarrels on which location to use etc. That can get messy and take years to get approved (just see Seattle). A MSG style major renovation should be the way to go IMO if they can make it work with the finances.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

In terms of cost efficiency I'd say that's certainly possible. But if they can make the economics works, it will be allot "easier" to get a major renovation approved for an existing site/building rather than getting a new arena. Allot more red tape involved with a new arena - environmental reviews, public hearings, quarrels on which location to use etc. That can get messy and take years to get approved (just see Seattle). A MSG style major renovation should be the way to go IMO if they can make it work with the finances.

That should be the way to go as the arena is in the perfect spot of town, but I wouldn't be opposed to an arena by the harbour.

 

[powerstuck]

I don't know why, but I can't distance myself from the feeling that some cities might have received a private call from NHL telling them to start paving the ground.

To me it just goes with all the public fuss about how expansion is on less than thin ice, might not be ready for 2017-18, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Killion]

I don't know why, but I can't distance myself from the feeling that some cities might have received a private call from NHL telling them to start paving the ground.

.... I love a good conspiracy theory powerstruck but no, not buying that one. no chance. Bettman may have made off the record promises to Seattle, "hinted" that if you build it we'll definitely come. Possible Vegas, driven by ultimate NHL insiders AEG who in conjunction with MGM are developing & building the arena were given such. But I cant see it elsewhere. Absolutely cant see it in Hamilton or Southern Ontario. Now, funny things can happen once the shovels hit the ground. Its my belief Quebec at some point were given assurances, Plan B for a Relo & on-standby with those curious reno's of the Colisee' but beyond that, nope.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

.... I love a good conspiracy theory powerstruck but no, not buying that one. no chance. Bettman may have made off the record promises to Seattle, "hinted" that if you build it we'll definitely come. Possible Vegas, driven by ultimate NHL insiders AEG who in conjunction with MGM are developing & building the arena were given such. But I cant see it elsewhere. Absolutely cant see it in Hamilton or Southern Ontario. Now, funny things can happen once the shovels hit the ground. Its my belief Quebec at some point were given assurances, Plan B for a Relo & on-standby with those curious reno's of the Colisee' but beyond that, nope.

Yeah, I think too that a key indicator was the NHL's stated amazement that nobody besides Quebec and Vegas submitted an expansion bid - they were specific in pointing out a total lack of bids from Toronto-area groups, too.

If there's a conspiracy theory to be had, the one I'd go with would say that the NHL was using the expansion process partially to see how much of the talk and hype around a potential Hamilton team actually had any real legs.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Yeah, I think too that a key indicator was the NHL's stated amazement that nobody besides Quebec and Vegas submitted an expansion bid - they were specific in pointing out a total lack of bids from Toronto-area groups, too.

If there's a conspiracy theory to be had, the one I'd go with would say that the NHL was using the expansion process partially to see how much of the talk and hype around a potential Hamilton team actually had any real legs.

a) yes, "stated" amazement.

b) Again, I appreciate the fact that I keep venturing into Balkan territory when I say these things, but the NHL is well aware of the buyer-in-wait in Hamilton and has met with him. Bettman was not "amazed" that he chose not to submit an expansion bid. The plan for both the buyer and the NHL is and has been for years now, to relocate a struggling eastern team, not to expand.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

I don't know why, but I can't distance myself from the feeling that some cities might have received a private call from NHL telling them to start paving the ground.

My optimistic, wishful thinking attitude made me think the same thing.

NHL business is done behind closed doors. Their "public process" (if there is such a thing) means very little.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

... the arena is in the perfect spot of town, but I wouldn't be opposed to an arena by the harbour.

Agreed.

According to local TV, (CHCH) $100,000 was raised from private funds to study whether or not it should be renovated, or just build a new one, and a further $100,000 of private funding would be raised to produce plans if renovation is the way to go.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I don't know why, but I can't distance myself from the feeling that some cities might have received a private call from NHL telling them to start paving the ground.

To me it just goes with all the public fuss about how expansion is on less than thin ice, might not be ready for 2017-18, yadda yadda yadda.

I can buy that too...but not with Hamilton.

Hamilton is a headache with little to no upside as far as the NHL is concerned with their primary goal of expansion - growing the game. Not saying I agree or endorse that opinion, but I'm sure Hamilton is around 30th on the NHL's wish list right now, below Tulsa but 20 spots ahead of Saskatchewan.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I can buy that too...but not with Hamilton.

Hamilton is a headache with little to no upside as far as the NHL is concerned with their primary goal of expansion - growing the game. Not saying I agree or endorse that opinion, but I'm sure Hamilton is around 30th on the NHL's wish list right now, below Tulsa but 20 spots ahead of Saskatchewan.

"growing the game" (whatever that actually means) is not the primary goal of this expansion. the goal now is to make money ... ahem, a $500M expansion fee? that's not intended in any way to "grow the game". no sir, that's a money grab.

"growing the game" by venturing into non-traditional markets like phoenix and florida has proven disastrous and has cost the league hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue sharing to subsidize those massive losses. couple that with lost revenues by rejecting Hamilton in the 90's, the decision to expand into florida has proven to be a multi-BILLION dollar blunder - arguably, the single worst decision in NHL league management ever.

phoenix and florida continually operate at losses and have added nothing to national broadcast revenues. even after 20 years, people in Florida still don't watch games on TV: bottom of the league. neither franchise significantly "grew the game" and both will be relocated soon.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

"growing the game" (whatever that actually means) is not the primary goal of this expansion. the goal now is to make money ... ahem, a $500M expansion fee? that's not intended in any way to "grow the game". no sir, that's a money grab.

"growing the game" by venturing into non-traditional markets like phoenix and florida has proven disastrous and has cost the league hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue sharing to subsidize those massive losses. couple that with lost revenues by rejecting Hamilton in the 90's, the decision to expand into florida has proven to be a multi-BILLION dollar blunder - arguably, the single worst decision in NHL league management ever.

phoenix and florida continually operate at losses and have added nothing to national broadcast revenues. even after 20 years, people in Florida still don't watch games on TV: bottom of the league. neither franchise significantly "grew the game" and both will be relocated soon.

You are talking about "growing the league."

"Growing the game" is a completely separate concept.

 

[powerstuck]

So, do I understand that all this NHL going cold about expansion is because SEATTLE didn't raise their little pinky finger when NHL opened the process ?

I could hardly believe that from a league that wants to be taken as seriously as the NHL.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

Half a billion is way too much for an NHL expansion franchise given the best markets are already taken.

 

[Yukon Joe]

a) yes, "stated" amazement.

b) Again, I appreciate the fact that I keep venturing into Balkan territory when I say these things, but the NHL is well aware of the buyer-in-wait in Hamilton and has met with him. Bettman was not "amazed" that he chose not to submit an expansion bid. The plan for both the buyer and the NHL is and has been for years now, to relocate a struggling eastern team, not to expand.

And just who is this mystery buyer?

It surely can't be Balsillie, not with his history with the league, and RIMs subsequent implosion.

 

[GuelphStormer]

You are talking about "growing the league."

"Growing the game" is a completely separate concept.

can you please explain what you mean by both terms and how they are related? im not trying to be a goof, i just never know what people mean when they use these terms.

 

[GuelphStormer]

And just who is this mystery buyer?

It surely can't be Balsillie, not with his history with the league, and RIMs subsequent implosion.

no, it's not Balsillie. it's another billionaire who wishes to remain private. and yes, i understand i might as well be talking about the tooth fairy or santa clause without actually naming him.

 

[Slot]

That should be the way to go as the arena is in the perfect spot of town, but I wouldn't be opposed to an arena by the harbour.

You mean the north harbour or down by the lake/QEW?

Because if you're talking north end, NFW no way. The infrastructure, road sewage and electric won't take that kind of loading, same problem they had with the pan am stadium. Not to mention no parking in the area.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

can you please explain what you mean by both terms and how they are related? im not trying to be a goof, i just never know what people mean when they use these terms.

It's the difference between "making beaucoup bucks" and "exposing people to the game who may not otherwise be exposed" ... the first *tends* to be rather cynical and short-sighted, the latter more long-term visionary. However the first does not prevent the second, nor vice versa.

clearer?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

can you please explain what you mean by both terms and how they are related? im not trying to be a goof, i just never know what people mean when they use these terms.

Sure. "Growing the league" is what you were discussing above. That is, expanding league revenues, increasing gate receipts, drawing better TV numbers, and creating more pop culture footprint through events such as the Winter Classic and the Stadium/Outdoor Series. "Growing the league" is directly referential to the NHL and its franchises and their collective business and financial practices.

"Growing the game" is a more generalized concept that refers to expanding the game of hockey in the zeitgeist. "Growing the game" refers more to programs like Kraft Hockeyville, exhibition games in smaller towns that do not have NHL franchises, and expansion of NHL, AHL, and other leagues into nontraditional markets. The object of "growing the game" is to create demand for hockey where none or little has existed before, leading to grassroots interest and participation. The end result of this contributes to "growing the league" in a sort of "trickle-up" fashion.

Arizona is an example of "growing the game" while not necessarily "growing the league." The Coyotes franchise is a trainwreck and has been for much of the time it has been in-state for a huge litany of reasons. However, in terms of the game of hockey, Arizona is showing marked signs of growth, from the youth hockey victories in the Quebec tournament to the elevation of ASU's hockey program to NCAA D1 status. Let's not forget Auston Matthews.

So when the NHL says that Hamilton is not high on their list of expansion or relocation sites because Hamilton does not "grow the game" as well as, say, Vegas, they are referring to the fact that hockey as a game is at a saturation point in Hamilton. In contrast, Hamilton would likely be extremely good at "growing the league" because it would likely sell out all of its games and be an engine for merchandise sales and other HRR.

The current round of expansion, if it follows through to completion, does both - it "grows the game" by putting a team in Vegas, and it "grows the league" by putting an immediately successful franchise in Quebec (market concerns notwithstanding) - not to mention adding $1 billion USD to the league coffers. Potential expansions/relocations to Hamilton and Seattle veer heavily towards the "growing the league" side of the equation.

 

[htpwn]

I can buy that too...but not with Hamilton.

Hamilton is a headache with little to no upside as far as the NHL is concerned with their primary goal of expansion - growing the game. Not saying I agree or endorse that opinion, but I'm sure Hamilton is around 30th on the NHL's wish list right now, below Tulsa but 20 spots ahead of Saskatchewan.

Can we drop the "growing the game" thing already? If the NHL gave a damn about it, we'd be signed on for the next five Olympics, as opposed to a farcical World Cup with half the hockey world left out.

Hamilton does not appear to be on the NHL's radar. That much we agree. But it has far more to do with a general NHL preference for US markets (no how many times a Phoenix or Florida or soon to be Vegas bites them in the rear end) and the Leafs stranglehold (veto) on the market than anything else.

The conspiratorial part of me says the expansion was a setup to specifically exclude Hamilton (and S.O.) going forward. The timeline was just too short for anyone aside from Las Vegas, Quebec City, and maybe Seattle to put in a bid, and the NHL ought to have known that. Yet now we got slime like Jeremy Jacobs talking about his 'amazement' about nobody in Southern Ontario not putting in a bid.

More to the point, it's good to see Hamilton still keeping the dream alive. That's all they can do. Just keep moving the goal posts down the road and maybe one day the NHL's leadership will change and shifts their current asininely stupid priorities.

 

[Mightygoose]

This is a not a bad strategy by the city. Sow the seeds now for the future.

Short term, they're not in play as there are at least 3 markets that are a higher priority in my view (Sea, LV, QC). Let expansion play out, eventually those 3 markets with either have team or (unlikely) be out the running for the foreseeable future.

If they decide to build new or renovate FOC (aim for say the mid 2020s), Those 3 competitors will be out of the way, likely still teams with uncertain future. Many building will be reaching 30 years, lease renewals etc... I think there will be more options down the road and now.