Champions League Game Day 2.

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

You accidentally cherry-picked two games—sure, they were both Champions' League Fixtures—but they weren't back-to-back and you only picked them because those were the games you knew Burki let in short-side goals. You didn't include all the other games Dortmund played in the Bundesliga, where he didn't let in short-side goals. It's a normal enough thing to do mentally, but statistically it leads to really bad conclusions instead of random sampling. And as someone who's watched all of Dortmund's games this year, I think Burki's been pretty good.

Also, Ronaldo's goal was likely going in on any keeper.

I didn't accidentally do anything. I know they're not back to back games but regardless of how he good he's in the Bundesliga, his team is at risk of not making out of the group to an inferior team and his play has played an essential role in that.

There's really no excuse for short side goals no matter how much power they have. Play the angles and know your opponent textbook keeping.

 

[S E P H]

Dortmund were better than I thought they were going to be. Nevertheless... I thought I whine about Wenger's tactics, man, what the hell were BVB thinking in playing that high of a line against RM's through-ball ability? They got ****ing shredded defencively and could have maybe held a draw if they played deeper. And Bosz didn't even change it in the second half where Real Madrid decided to take over the game due to those flaws in tactics.

Pot calling kettle

Not really, we're not the fanbase which was stating how "amazing" and "breathtaking" our offence was going to be. Come on Peen, the Red fans were stating how dominant they were going to be after they beat Arsenal and got that easy of a group.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dortmund were better than I thought they were going to be. Nevertheless... I thought I whine about Wenger's tactics, man, what the hell were BVB thinking in playing that high of a line against RM's through-ball ability? They got ****ing shredded defencively and could have maybe held a draw if they played deeper. And Bosz didn't even change it in the second half where Real Madrid decided to take over the game due to those flaws in tactics.

They were worse than I thought, and I was expecting a loss. Madrid was well prepared to handle Dortmund's pressing and simply outpressed them for most of the game. It helped that their starting lineup was approximately 1000x more pressing resistant than Dortmund's and Kroos and Modric were always ready to escape a tight situation with a perfect long ball. Hopefully Bosz learns his lessons about the need for Weigl and Dahoud in a game where the other team is outpressing you. I don't expect his style to change. He's pretty committed to it, and honestly it works against the vast majority of teams. Real's style is just perfectly suited to beat it on so many levels, and they have an otherworldly roster.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Buerki's one of the team's best players. Not even worth discussing, really. Goalies let in bad goals, I'd much rather they address the defensive concerns from the defenders who are putting Buerki 1v1 against top level attackers too many times per game.

 

[Havre]

I win that bet, he was really good.

Well. Second best midfield player behind Winks I would say. "Really good" only if you benchmark him against how he usually plays.

Against APOEL and West Ham he has looked like a decent squad player - which is of course a tremendous improvement.

 

[Havre]

They were worse than I thought, and I was expecting a loss. Madrid was well prepared to handle Dortmund's pressing and simply outpressed them for most of the game. It helped that their starting lineup was approximately 1000x more pressing resistant than Dortmund's and Kroos and Modric were always ready to escape a tight situation with a perfect long ball. Hopefully Bosz learns his lessons about the need for Weigl and Dahoud in a game where the other team is outpressing you. I don't expect his style to change. He's pretty committed to it, and honestly it works against the vast majority of teams. Real's style is just perfectly suited to beat it on so many levels, and they have an otherworldly roster.

But how are you then going to beat the best?

Generally I like "idealistic" managers, but I don´t get Bosz. He has a team that could be absolutely deadly on the CA - why not be a bit more pragmatic against teams like RM? At least for parts of the game.

Clearly Dortmund need a bit of luck to win the CL, but they are good enough to have a decent shot at it in my opinion. Can´t give away that many "easy" goals though - which is almost guaranteed to happen against the better teams the way they play.

 

[Deficient Mode]

But how are you then going to beat the best?

Generally I like "idealistic" managers, but I don´t get Bosz. He has a team that could be absolutely deadly on the CA - why not be a bit more pragmatic against teams like RM? At least for parts of the game.

Clearly Dortmund need a bit of luck to win the CL, but they are good enough to have a decent shot at it in my opinion. Can´t give away that many "easy" goals though - which is almost guaranteed to happen against the better teams the way they play.

I agree. Bosz is a very good manager, but he has flaws like every other manager. Last year in the EL the chaos worked for them; I remember they staged a comeback in the dying minutes away at Schalke. It could have worked against Tottenham with just a little better officiating. The best "underdog" teams (if the likes of Atletico and Juventus count) in the CL will not let in a bunch of goals against, however. That could really limit his team in this competition. Tuchel in comparison was far more varied with his formations and tactics from match to match. I can forgive it if Bosz keeps them clicking in domestic play.

 

[jniklast]

The first two goals yesterday had nothing to do with a high-line or too risk tactics, that was just bad defending in these situations. I doubt that Dortmund would've got any more from this game if they had sat back (which they aren't used to do anyway). Keeping Madrid from having much possession in their half was good imo.

In the end Real simply is better individually at nearly every position and that showed. If Dortmund wanted to take anything from such a game they would've had to convert their chances, of which they had two excellent ones right before the Madrid goals.

 

[Havre]

The first two goals yesterday had nothing to do with a high-line or too risk tactics, that was just bad defending in these situations. I doubt that Dortmund would've got any more from this game if they had sat back (which they aren't used to do anyway). Keeping Madrid from having much possession in their half was good imo.

In the end Real simply is better individually at nearly every position and that showed. If Dortmund wanted to take anything from such a game they would've had to convert their chances, of which they had two excellent ones right before the Madrid goals.

That is confirmation bias.

Dortmund are too often putting themselves in a position where the opposition will create big chances. That doesn't mean the opposition will always score on them, or that the opposition won't score in other ways, but it comes down to probability over time.

I think the game against Spurs is the perfect example. They were clearly the better team, but if Spurs had been better on the CA it could easily have ended with conceding 5 or 6. Spurs were actually quite terrible on the CA in that game. How can you ever justify playing 2 against 2 (Son and Kane) on 0-0 away from home? As a neutral I love it, but you just can't win against the best playing like that (and I mean much better teams than Spurs).

It doesn't mean they can't occasionally beat even RM in Germany playing the way they do. I just don't see how they can be successful over two legs against teams like RM, PSG, Barcelona, AM, BM, Juventus etc. playing like that.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-werner-forced-pitch-due-noisy-besiktas-fans/

Leipzig forward Timo Werner is said to have requested to be substituted during the club's first ever away Champions League fixture because of noisy Beskitas fans.

The 21-year-old Germany international could not handle the cacophony inside Beskitas' Vodafone Arena and was replaced after 32 minutes.

 

[jniklast]

That is confirmation bias.

Dortmund are too often putting themselves in a position where the opposition will create big chances. That doesn't mean the opposition will always score on them, or that the opposition won't score in other ways, but it comes down to probability over time.

I think the game against Spurs is the perfect example. They were clearly the better team, but if Spurs had been better on the CA it could easily have ended with conceding 5 or 6. Spurs were actually quite terrible on the CA in that game. How can you ever justify playing 2 against 2 (Son and Kane) on 0-0 away from home? As a neutral I love it, but you just can't win against the best playing like that (and I mean much better teams than Spurs).

It doesn't mean they can't occasionally beat even RM in Germany playing the way they do. I just don't see how they can be successful over two legs against teams like RM, PSG, Barcelona, AM, BM, Juventus etc. playing like that.

Until it was 3-1 for Spurs, Dortmund had more chances. And most of the counter attacks came after being down 3-1, when they did have to open up further. Even with bad goaltending and defending I'd argue that Dortmund don't lose that game if the assistant could tell a player is onside by a yard.

Of course the system is risky, but I'd actually say it's confirmation bias from your side to take two games and say it won't work against good opposition.

 

[Havre]

I'm not claiming it doesn't work based on any quantitative data - so confirmation biased it isn't.

At the moment I'm just asking questions. I would actually love it if I was wrong - nothing would be better than Dortmund being successful playing like this. I highly highly doubt it though.

 

[Adonis Creed]

Difference between Arsenal and Pool fanbase

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

 

[Jussi]

Terrible news for the french NT. After Dembele and Pogba out for months, third shoe-in starter out. And this one could miss the WC.

Not certain until he meets with Sakari Orava.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Difference between Arsenal and Pool fanbase

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

Oh boy...

 

[Halladay]

Difference between Arsenal and Pool fanbase

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

Sometimes it is fun to be wrong. Looks like you are having a good time at it.

 

[phisherman]

Difference between Arsenal and Pool fanbase

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

It's sad how it takes a few delusional people to make a fan base look bad.

 

[hersky77]

Difference between Arsenal and Pool fanbase

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

The best team on the planet. Am I doing it right.

 

[Savant]

It's sad how it takes a few delusional people to make a fan base look bad.

Unfortunately.

Most of the Arsenal folks on here are pretty level headed too.

 

[Savant]

- We know our coach is brutal - Klopp his no better than B.Rodgers and Pool love his antics
- We know our 3-4-3 is garbage and our CM plus Defense is Europa League level for most of them except Kolasinac . Pool GK-Defense and mid are garbage...
- We know Ox is **** - Pool fans thinking he could be a b2b CM...
- We know Sanchez is a ***** and Ozil is useless vs top squad --- Pool fans think They have best offense in the world...you have speed bot cannot construct-finished vs good defense
- Thinking Firminho is a elite Striker.... Giroud can score more as a Super-Sub than him..

Klopp is a flopp

If you are going to make sweeping generalizations like this you should provide quotes from more than one poster that support any of this.

 

[YNWA14]

People have different opinions on things who'd have thought? Unfortunately it's the internet where if you don't agree with someone they either flame, troll or straw man you at every opportunity. I'd say that type of action is worse than being 'delusional'. That said it's just how people are these days...the beauty of the internet. Trolling in particular even though against the rules is practically encouraged by those with power to stop it.

 

[Jussi]

United won comfortably in Moscow and thanks to Lukaku scoring, I won some money.

 

[RossiyaSport]

Berezutski gave away a goal and then there was a goal on a penalty that was bogus imo. Dzagoev should have scored an opportunity he had early on. Would have probably still lost but could have been much closer.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Immense win today. Holy guacamole.

 

[Peen]

What a fantastic performance from Chelsea. Victor Moses' best game in a long time.

Made my day winning that game with the final kick.