central scouting mid terms

[MS]

Interesting as usual.

WHL rankings look better than the prelims which were bloody strange. Switch the placings of McArdle and Durand and it's pretty much as would be expected. Rabbit is kinda high.

But then there is the usual weird stuff like Matt Pelech at 31 and Ryan Wilson at 131. And the usual CSB bias toward huge unskilled players. Bourdon over Johnson is an eyebrow raiser, as is the placing of Bergfors.

Brule is now out of #2 on two of three major rankings. Bit of egg on the face of the Vancouver Province, which printed a large feature on Brule a couple days ago highlighting why he was a sure bet to stay at #2.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Brule is now out of #2 on two of three major rankings. Bit of egg on the face of the Vancouver Province, which printed a large feature on Brule a couple days ago highlighting why he was a sure bet to stay at #2.

Does it really matter what these website's rankings are? I mean this new list by central scouting just goes to show you the type of drugs they induce before they make these lists. Dave Nonis was on radio a couple of days ago and he said that Brule is almost at Crosby's level and is a shoe-in to go 2nd (in his opinion). Matt Macinnis (who is a writer here) has talked to NHL scouts and they also claim that Brule is the clear #2.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Does it really matter what these website's rankings are? I mean this new list by central scouting just goes to show you the type of drugs they induce before they make these lists. Dave Nonis was on radio a couple of days ago and he said that Brule is almost at Crosby's level and is a shoe-in to go 2nd (in his opinion). Matt Macinnis (who is a writer here) has talked to NHL scouts and they also claim that Brule is the clear #2.

Vancouver should fire Nonis right away after that comment.

 

[leafaholix*]

Vancouver should fire Nonis right away after that comment.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Vancouver should fire Nonis right away after that comment.

Nonis didn't say Brule was as good as Crosby, he said Brule is the 2nd best player the draft has to offer. Easy, tiger.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Nonis didn't say Brule was as good as Crosby, he said Brule is the 2nd best player the draft has to offer. Easy, tiger.

LOL im actually a big Nonis fan

Brule is a good player no doubt but I feel bad for prospects who have been in the spotlight for more than just their draft year.

Spezza, Jay Bo...both fell after being in the sun too long. Same could happen to Brule.

Also it really depends on what teams need.

 

[rt]

Jay Bo didn't really fall. The top three teams just made sure that they got who they wanted.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Does it really matter what these website's rankings are? I mean this new list by central scouting just goes to show you the type of drugs they induce before they make these lists. Dave Nonis was on radio a couple of days ago and he said that Brule is almost at Crosby's level and is a shoe-in to go 2nd (in his opinion). Matt Macinnis (who is a writer here) has talked to NHL scouts and they also claim that Brule is the clear #2.

The rankings of those websites do matter, but they aren't necessarly going to prove accurate. The fact you can cite people who think differently doesn't mean CSS is on drugs.

Dave Nonis and Vancouver haven't been stellar drafters themselves. Big whoop if he thinks Brule is almost at a Crosby level.

Matt does have good connections, but hasn't talked to all scouts. He'll be the first to tell you that. All this means is that certain individuals have Brule as the clear #2. It doesn't mean everybody does.

Clearly, not all NHL scouts have Brule as a #2 right now. Because CSS scouts ARE NHL scouts.

 

[McCabeW]

Is anyone else unable to see European rankings?

 

[BuppY]

Bergfors at number 6?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

The rankings of those websites do matter, but they aren't necessarly going to prove accurate. The fact you can cite people who think differently doesn't mean CSS is on drugs.

Dave Nonis and Vancouver haven't been stellar drafters themselves. Big whoop if he thinks Brule is almost at a Crosby level.



Matt does have good connections, but hasn't talked to all scouts. He'll be the first to tell you that. All this means is that certain individuals have Brule as the clear #2. It doesn't mean everybody does.

Clearly, not all NHL scouts have Brule as a #2 right now. Because CSS scouts ARE NHL scouts.

But you dont agree with these new rankings, do you? Frankly, i'm appauled. Bourdon over Johnson is chicken **** if I ever saw it, Bourret and Setoguchi way down the list is just puzzling, and of course Brule at 6.

 

[JSmith81x]

Is anyone else unable to see European rankings?

The page link for the Euros isn't working for me, either, so I downloaded the PDF files instead.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Bergfors at number 6?

I dont know what people see in Bergfors.

 

[leafaholix*]

I dont know what people see in Bergfors.

Extremely skilled mofo.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Extremely skilled mofo.

I find he is more of a worker than naturally skilled player.

A 1st round pick but i think he is being overrated

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

But you dont agree with these new rankings, do you? Frankly, i'm appauled. Bourdon over Johnson is chicken **** if I ever saw it, Bourret and Setoguchi way down the list is just puzzling, and of course Brule at 6.

Based on the players I know, I don't really agree with them, no.

I can't say anything about Jack Johnson. All I can say is that if Bourdon truly is better than this guy, he isn't half as good as advertised. Maybe CSS screwed up, or maybe they will make him rise in the final rankings. I don't know. But "the next Brian Leetch with a meaner edge" wouldn't be ranked under Bourdon, that's for sure.

I usually don't look much at the mid term rankings. I prefer their final ones (although they suck the pooch on occasion).

Bourret is too low on this list, but too high on most lists we see around here, IMO. When all is said and done, CSS' evaluation of Bourret isn't any less accurate than those other services. It's just different.

 

[leafaholix*]

I find he is more of a worker than naturally skilled player.

A 1st round pick but i think he is being overrated

Having seen him only a couple times, I could even tell he was on of the most skilled and silkiest players on the ice.

 

[Chief]

There always seems to be this misconception among draft fans that there should be one master list which every team or scout agrees upon when ranking players. If that was the case, then there would be no reason to hold a draft, just have the league pick players off the list in draft order. We all know how inexact a science scouting is and apart from a few players which scouts might have a unanimous opinion about (like an Ovechkin), it is totally to be expected that different scouts see things differently. Just look at Blake Wheeler last year. Heck, just think about how different your impressions of NHL players are in comparison to your friend's impressions of those same players.

And just to add my $0.02. If I was making out a Top 10 today, Bergfors and Kopitar would be in it. I still have a hard time ranking Rask ahead of Vincent (although they'd both probably rank behind Price). And I don't think there's as great a difference between Johnson, Bourdon and Parent, as some people think. I love Jack Johnson as a player but the hype on him has gotten out of hand, especially the way some were making him out to be the jilted savior of the US WJC team.

 

[Oilers Chick]

There always seems to be this misconception among draft fans that there should be one master list which every team or scout agrees upon when ranking players. If that was the case, then there would be no reason to hold a draft, just have the league pick players off the list in draft order. We all know how inexact a science scouting is and apart from a few players which scouts might have a unanimous opinion about (like an Ovechkin), it is totally to be expected that different scouts see things differently. Just look at Blake Wheeler last year. Heck, just think about how different your impressions of NHL players are in comparison to your friend's impressions of those same players.

And just to add my $0.02. If I was making out a Top 10 today, Bergfors and Kopitar would be in it. I still have a hard time ranking Rask ahead of Vincent (although they'd both probably rank behind Price). And I don't think there's as great a difference between Johnson, Bourdon and Parent, as some people think. I love Jack Johnson as a player but the hype on him has gotten out of hand, especially the way some were making him out to be the jilted savior of the US WJC team.

Chief: I'd take your point one step further and say if look at the various scouting reports around, everyone's got their rankings and their lists. But you what? There's always those big and not so big surprises on draft day, no matter where they're ranked. Case and point, Blake Wheeler. I don't recall seeing Wheeler listed as a first rounder or certainly not a top 10 pick on ANY of the scouting lists.

 

[cheesymc]

Devin Setoguchi?

Where is this guy ranked? Is he part japanese? He has good numbers, but he isnt mentioned at all......

 

[Chief]

Chief: I don't recall seeing Wheeler listed as a first rounder or certainly not a top 10 pick on ANY of the scouting lists.

In that case, you should have subscribed to the YoungGunsHockey draft guide

That said, people don't realize how differently scouts and their organizations rank players. Some organizations will emphasize a skill, while others will emphasize a different attribute like work ethic. And it also depends on when scouts see players. One of my favorite stories was regarding the Kings' Q scout. He was aksed about Boutin (the goalie) and he said, I've been up here twice to see the team and he got pulled in both games! Obviously, scouts see more than just two games before all is said and done but they don't all see the same games.

 

[speeds]

One of my favorite stories was regarding the Kings' Q scout. He was aksed about Boutin (the goalie) and he said, I've been up here twice to see the team and he got pulled in both games! Obviously, scouts see more than just two games before all is said and done but they don't all see the same games.

To me this is one of the reasons teams have lists that vary so much. When you have 30 teams scouting players, some teams are going to see the guy on (on average) a good day, others on a bad day.

 

[Chief]

speeds: What you say is true. However, unless a player is playing in some out of the way league, NHL scouts will see players more times than just two. Don't know if you had access to the Rangers Inside/Out TV show, but one of the scouts mentioned he saw Billy Ryan play 33 times.

 

[fredez]

Very, very big fall for Guillaume Latendresse. He went from a top 10 pick to a 67th ranked prospect in NA!

I also didn't find Stanislav Lascek on the rankings, which I think is quite odd.

As for the European list, I'm suprised to see Sergei Kostsitsyn ranked so high (13th), I thought he would fall under the radar. He's ahead of the likes of Shirokov, Zubov and Korhonen.

There's many familiar family names on the lists like Toivonen, Ryder, Kostsitsyn, Statsny, Pyatt, Zubov, Staal, Sauer, Tuzzolino, Aubin, Gauthier...

 

[speeds]

speeds: What you say is true. However, unless a player is playing in some out of the way league, NHL scouts will see players more times than just two. Don't know if you had access to the Rangers Inside/Out TV show, but one of the scouts mentioned he saw Billy Ryan play 33 times.

hmm, that's quite a bit.

I'd have thought that a team might see the average player play something like 5-15 times per season, and with that kind of sample, it stands to reason that each of the 30 teams will see him on a different "average" game.

And that's even if all teams evaluate talent in an identical manner, which would be a bizarre assumption IMO