Confirmed Trade: [CBJ/VAN] Vanek for Jussi Jokinen, Tyler Motte

vcanuck

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Feb 7, 2011
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Just shows how clueless people are on reputation and player impacts. Thomas Vanek is a damn good player and Jim Benning is an idiot for not getting at least a 3rd or 4th.
found the anti Benning dude...

Benning is an idiot because he couldn't get a 3rd or 4th that wasnt available for Vanek... hmmm :laugh:
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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To be fair Motte was worth like a 4th ish you just don't get to pick your own guy and you get someone you know is at least NHL 4th line quality with upside. Give him an off-season to learn the system before you get angry about not having a pick that may or may not even be Motte quality.
 
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Derp Kassian

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Jul 14, 2012
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found the anti Benning dude...

Benning is an idiot because he couldn't get a 3rd or 4th that wasnt available for Vanek... hmmm :laugh:
Jim is that you? yes he was an idiot for not getting any type of pick for essentially a 50-60 point player


To be fair Motte was worth like a 4th ish you just don't get to pick your own guy and you get someone you know is at least NHL 4th line quality with upside. Give him an off-season to learn the system before you get angry about not having a pick that may or may not even be Motte quality.
He has the worst advanced stats profile of anyone profiled EVER, hes not going to improve. Hes barely AHL quality he might be in the ECHL eventually.
 

mikeyp24

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Jim is that you? yes he was an idiot for not getting any type of pick for essentially a 50-60 point player



He has the worst advanced stats profile of anyone profiled EVER, hes not going to improve. Hes barely AHL quality he might be in the ECHL eventually.
He played great on Chicago and did well with us his first few games... give him a couple seasons before he's an ECHL player. There's a guy on the jackets board that based on advanced stats thinks Murray makes us a worse team even though our wins with Murray in the line up are exponentially better then when he's out. He has literally said Ryan Murray will be in the ECHL within 5 years...


Give it time.
 
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vcanuck

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Jim is that you? yes he was an idiot for not getting any type of pick for essentially a 50-60 point player



He has the worst advanced stats profile of anyone profiled EVER, hes not going to improve. Hes barely AHL quality he might be in the ECHL eventually.

ok mr insider, tell me who your source is if he could in fact get those picks for Vanek. ill wait.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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Every single year, Thomas Vanek does pretty well with his team, gets traded for next to nothing at the deadline, and does decent with his new team. Why does he always get traded for next to nothing? He's obviously a very good player.
 

MrRuin

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Every single year, Thomas Vanek does pretty well with his team, gets traded for next to nothing at the deadline, and does decent with his new team. Why does he always get traded for next to nothing? He's obviously a very good player.
That's not entirely true. Florida last year was not working out so well, however much of that is on Vanek is anyone's guess. In Montreal he did pretty well, but the fanbase is very vocal and voiced its displeasure with his later round playoff performances. In Minnesota they needed cap space, his play was OK but the value was not. With Montreal and Minnesota you have to keep in mind he had very different contracts than today for both teams with a high cap hit (6.5m$+) so expactations in his play were different. In my opinion he is not a different player today than he was in those years. His value for money rating definetly increased though!

Oh and then there were his off ice issues while he was in NY which has probably also built a negative reputation...
 
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ATypicalCanadian

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ok mr insider, tell me who your source is if he could in fact get those picks for Vanek. ill wait.

If guys like Morrow, Bollig and Wingels can get picks at the deadline I personally have a hard time believing Benning couldn't have gotten a pick for Vanek.
 

bossram

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To be fair Motte was worth like a 4th ish you just don't get to pick your own guy and you get someone you know is at least NHL 4th line quality with upside. Give him an off-season to learn the system before you get angry about not having a pick that may or may not even be Motte quality.

He's not 4th line quality. By nearly all objective measures, he's one of the worst players in the league.

I'm quite confident that Vanek scored more goals tonight than Motte will score in his entire career with Vancouver.

Vanek is pacing ~60 points, has 13 points in 14 games for Columbus, and was traded for someone who is non-prospect. And anyone reasonable would have known by now that he is a non-prospect.

A 4th round pick has a (very slight) chance of being a real impact player. Motte has 0% chance. I would rather have a pick 10/10 times.
 

vcanuck

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If guys like Morrow, Bollig and Wingels can get picks at the deadline I personally have a hard time believing Benning couldn't have gotten a pick for Vanek.


listen, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but your talking about imaginary picks there were not offered for Vanek.

JB straight up said NO picks were offered and Motte was the only thing we could get for him. Craig Button preety much said the same thing.
 
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Canuck Luck

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listen, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but your talking about imaginary picks there were not offered for Vanek.

JB straight up said NO picks were offered and Motte was the only thing we could get for him. Craig Button preety much said the same thing.
We should 100% believe him because you know that would be the first time Jim Benning has ever lied as our GM... oh wait
 

vcanuck

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We should 100% believe him because you know that would be the first time Jim Benning has ever lied as our GM... oh wait

and we should believe 100% what these hfboard GMs say because they are never wrong on players value.. o wait

multiple credible hockey people have confirmed what JB has said, buuut don't let facts get in the way of a good JB whine fest.
 
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Uberpecker

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That's not entirely true. Florida last year was not working out so well, however much of that is on Vanek is anyone's guess. In Montreal he did pretty well, but the fanbase is very vocal and voiced its displeasure with his later round playoff performances. In Minnesota they needed cap space, his play was OK but the value was not. With Montreal and Minnesota you have to keep in mind he had very different contracts than today for both teams with a high cap hit (6.5m$+) so expactations in his play were different. In my opinion he is not a different player today than he was in those years. His value for money rating definetly increased though!

Oh and then there were his off ice issues while he was in NY which has probably also built a negative reputation...
Off ice issues in New York?
 

me2

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He's not 4th line quality. By nearly all objective measures, he's one of the worst players in the league.

I'm quite confident that Vanek scored more goals tonight than Motte will score in his entire career with Vancouver.

Vanek is pacing ~60 points, has 13 points in 14 games for Columbus, and was traded for someone who is non-prospect. And anyone reasonable would have known by now that he is a non-prospect.

A 4th round pick has a (very slight) chance of being a real impact player. Motte has 0% chance. I would rather have a pick 10/10 times.
Motte has a better chance than 0%. Then again so do waiver pickups, and they are free.
 

Cor

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"No draft picks" were likely available because a majority of the other GMs know who they are dealing with in Vancouver.

I was about to say the same thing. Why offer up a draft pick when you could probably convince Jim Benning to take a player like Motte. Like this was to me, the least beneficial move.

1. Trade Vanek for draft pick(s)
2. No pick offered? Re-Sign Vanek to a 1 year extension, and try again next year [IIRC Vanek said he was willing to stay]

And yeah, Benning would still get some grief with option 2, but it's better than trading a quality NHL player for two nothing assets.

Even if Vanek told the Nucks that he wasn't coming back, no way no how, and zero teams were offering even a 4th or 5th round pick, you can still deal Vanek for a 21 or 22 year old player that you think has some potential.

But Tyler Motte has never looked good in any of the NHL games I've seen him in prior to Vancouver, and his underlying numbers have always been awful. So from an eye-test point of view, and an analtyical point of view, I'm sort of mind boggled about who saw what to deem this trade one worth doing.

And perhaps that is just it. Maybe the Canucks made this deal, simply to make a deal.
 
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Canuck Luck

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and we should believe 100% what these hfboard GMs say because they are never wrong on players value.. o wait

multiple credible hockey people have confirmed what JB has said, buuut don't let facts get in the way of a good JB whine fest.
If you look at lindens interview, he referenced back to 2nd and 3rd round picks. Based on the history of this managements work, it’s probably true they were not offered a pick. The reason being they were asking for a 2nd or 3rd.

You can’t seriously think if they didn’t push hard enough, they couldn’t have even gotten a 7th round pick. Eric Fehr who Toronto didnt even want on their AHL team can return a 7th round pick. Eric fehr is signed til the end of this season for the exact same 2M Vanek is signed for. I am 100% certain a team would have given up at least a 7th round pick for Vanek. I’m sorry but if anyone were to say Eric fehr holds more trade value over Vanek, I call bullshit. In addition to fehr returning a pick while Vanek did not, we had to take on a cap dump in jokinen. A 1.1M cap dump. Toronto didn’t have to take back any salary.

That’s a comparison of a player much worse than Vanek who has the exact same salary. Now let’s compare it to what I think was the worst players traded for a pick. Brandon Bollig and Troy Grosenick, 2 career ahl players, returned a 6th round pick. Do you really believe 2 ahl players who I can say with certainty will never ever even see the nhl press box for the rest of their careers, let alone nhl ice, hold more value than vanek? Neither is young and one is a backup ahl goalie and the other an ahl enforcer. Yet somehow San Jose was able to return a 6th round pick

It’s either that theory or other gm’s know they can bend Benning over and eventually he’ll cave

If the majority is calling bullshit and the opposite of what Benning said was happening (teams were not trading picks) with picks flying left right and center for much lesser players, I’m sorry to tell you but it’s most likely bullshit
 
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M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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Only a matter of time before the anti-Benning crowd roll through here. Brace yourselves.
How your still supporting this bozo is the real issue. Loses 90%+ of his trades and has blown 2/3 top 6 picks..... yeah embrace for the anti Benning crowd... should be everyone who likes the Canucks

Just :facepalm:
 

Viqsi

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Vanek is a good two way player, one is badly overrated, and one is badly underrated.

I would take vanek over nash 10/10
Enh. For me, depends on the sort of player I need. The Jackets needed significantly improved secondary scoring, so Vanek was the right choice. A team that needs a little less secondary scoring and a lot more defense would be well served by Nash - his offense is overrated a tad, but his defense is incredibly underrated.

* * *​
There's a guy on the jackets board that based on selective misapplication of advanced stats thinks Murray makes us a worse team even though our wins with Murray in the line up are exponentially better then when he's out. He has literally said Ryan Murray will be in the ECHL within 5 years...
Fixed it for you. The advanced stats also show Murray's presence improving the team's results as a whole but he keeps insisting that since there's no individual stat that shows Murray as good that it's all a mirage and coincidental and meaningless. Never mind the fact that it's constant and consistent...

* * *​
Thinking Columbus signs Vanek to a small contract. 2 years 3 Million.
Sure hope so. Him and Ian Cole.
 

Section88

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Jul 11, 2017
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He played great on Chicago and did well with us his first few games... give him a couple seasons before he's an ECHL player. There's a guy on the jackets board that based on advanced stats thinks Murray makes us a worse team even though our wins with Murray in the line up are exponentially better then when he's out. He has literally said Ryan Murray will be in the ECHL within 5 years...


Give it time.
Agree, hated giving up motte. Although at this point it was the right thing to do. He looked great with the hawks first couple weeks of 16/17 i believe. May have been 15/16, either way he got injured came back and hasnt looked like an NHL player since
 
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DRW204

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Every single year, Thomas Vanek does pretty well with his team, gets traded for next to nothing at the deadline, and does decent with his new team. Why does he always get traded for next to nothing? He's obviously a very good player.
style of play and speed wise he comes across as a coaster/low drive and PO production is underwhelming
 

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