CBA not favourable to Montreal.

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by not quite yoda, Jul 17, 2005.

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  1. not quite yoda

    not quite yoda Registered User

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    MTL should be able to spend up to the cap this season and will be one of the teams least hurt by loss of revenue due to the lockout thanks to their old and loyal fanbase.

    But the cap limit (where big money teams will spend up to) will rise as league revenues rise. I do not see MTL's rising very much in the future as they have already max'ed out. Local companies that want to be associated with the team already are. The whole city (make that hockey world) already knows full well about the team. I don't think the fanbase or ticket sales can grow much being that we already lead the League in attendance.

    They are already one of the top revenue teams. They can't improve there. Yet what has been killing them fiscaly are their expenses (the real estate tax). Add to that now that the top revenue teams will have to donate money to the weaker revenue teams... rumoured to be in the 6 to 8 million$ a year range... and that seriousy handicaps MTL.

    Although the cap will allow them to keep up in spending inthe short term with the DET and NYR of this world... and that the new CBA will in theory help the CDN teams survive and compete... I don't think it realy serves MTL well once league revenues begin to grow. MTL's revenues can't grow much (unless the NHL eventualy gets a major TV contract in the states and all teams benefit). And their spending money is about to go down.

    The fact that their payroll will have to shrink from about 45M to 37M can cancel out the revenue sharing loss. But if the CAP gets to 45M or 50M in 5 years, they shouldn't be able to spend up to the cap at that point. Unless I am missing something.

    Goes to show you that you (Bettman) can't please everyone.
     
  2. blitzkriegs

    blitzkriegs Registered User

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    Yeah. The part that there is zero chance league revenues reach the point that the salary cap is @ 50 million in 5 years.
     
  3. not quite yoda

    not quite yoda Registered User

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    Care to back that claim up with some sort of rational argument?

    "zero chance" suggests it is impossible. It is not impossible. The CBA provides that as League revenues rise, the % of revenues given to players rises above 54% as well.

    What if Crosby does get drafted by the NYR and sets the laegue on fire? And obstruction is called and we go back to a more offensive free-wheeling 80s style league? And NBC decides to sign a major TV contract with the NHL? That could greatly raise league revenues. It is not impossible.
     
  4. FanSince2014

    FanSince2014 What'd He Say?

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    Then that TV revenue would be split among the 30 NHL teams which includes Montreal.
    Their revenue would improve, nullifying the claim that it could not.
     
  5. wildcat48

    wildcat48 Registered User

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    If revenues climb as sugguested and Montreal revenues stay as is sugguested then they will be pushed down the totem pole to the point where they will recieve help by either the so called revenue sharing or by some other means.


    To my understanding the top ten teams in revenue will help the bottom 15 teams in revenue but we still don't know if it is a combination of playoff and regular season or one or the other.
     
  6. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    And then if Montreal is still crying poor, move em.

    If, in a cap system, a team still cannot support their team, Move em. I dont care if they are an original 6. There is no excuses anymore. Were fans seriously expecting a 28 or 32 mil cap, that would STAY at that level for ever?
     
  7. not quite yoda

    not quite yoda Registered User

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    That's cold. And ignorant.

    You're suggesting that the team with the highest attendance, where hockey is a part of the city's fabric, a team that has more history than any otherteam in the world, be moved? Where> Las Vegas? Milwaukee? Portland? Do you think those cities will have 20 000 fans come to every game regardless of wether they are winning or losing?



    Furthermore, Montreal (if going according to revenue) is not poor. You should know that it has one of the highest revenues in the League. The probnlem is the team pays more in Real estate taxes than all 24 American teams combined. That hurts them. And having to pay another 6 to 8 M$ a year to these Real-estate-tax-free American teams is what will make it extremely difficult for this company turn a profit.

    Anyways a team re-located to (say) Portland will not automaticaly generate top 10 revenues in the NHL, which MTL already does. Makes no sense.
     
  8. Buffaloed

    Buffaloed webmaster

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    Real Estate taxes are a local condition, just as are things like the cost of living , and personal safety and security . Montreal, and other major Canadian cities enjoy a significant advantage over most US cities in those areas. One could argue that the CBA is most unfavorable to the Rangers because a dollar doesn't go very far in NYC, and it's perceived as unsafe. Montreal should be able to sign the same player for less money than the Rangers, and that player should be able to end up with more money in his pocket at the end of the day. Every market has to deal with local conditions. It's up to the team to accentuate the positive and downplay the negative. It's up to the market to try to improve those conditions to be competitive.
     
  9. not quite yoda

    not quite yoda Registered User

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    You are forgetting Provincial (as well as Federal) Taxes. Citizens of the province of Quebec are the most taxed people in North America. That will push players away from Montreal.

    Martin Lapointe was offered 5M a year from both MTL and BTN. He chose BTN because of the high taxes in Quebec. He asked for Montreal to offer more $ to offset the taxes. When MTL refused, that is when he signed with the Bruins.
     
  10. Scoogs

    Scoogs Registered User

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    It's BOS ;)
     
  11. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    Its cold alright.

    The cold hard truth.

    Are you honestly telling me a National Sports Franchise CANNOT support to spend 35-40 million a season?

    Sell the team then to somebody who can. If you dont want to move em, then drop the cheap owner who, according to you, may already be waiting for the excuses to start flowing.
     
  12. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    you are overlooking 1 major problem. And 1 fact that discredits your entire stance that Montreal cannot compete.

    YOU OFFERED MARTIN LAPOINTE 5M a season!

    When he was offered 5M, Local Press in Detroit said Management all but Laughed at him and told him to sign elseware. Your teams management cannot afford a 35-40 mil a year cap, but Saw fit to offer MArtin "3rd Liner, Watch me take a stupid penalty, look and watch, here i go, Get that Whistle Out Ref, Take that!" Lapointe a 5M a year contact?
     
  13. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    montreal could challenge with anobody in the league and they will never move from Montreal .. they just have to raise ticket price(one of the cheapest) or ask for more money from local tv,radio deal ..
     
  14. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    so in another words, the entire premise of this thread is wrong. Montreal is no strapped for cash, they havent exausted thier options, and can compete.

    hey, good on them.

    my post was not a be-all end-all, nor did i believe montreal [like . Ottawa] is going to suffer from this CBA. And I'm surely not advocating the moving of Montreal. My point is simple, if a franchise cannot Sustain itself with this CBA, then it doesnt deserve to be in the NHL in its current form.
     
  15. Habsaku

    Habsaku Registered User

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    Yup the premise is completly wrong and makes no sense at all if you think about it. Ticket prices never stay the same and TV deals never stay the same either. Besides, that could also apply to 1996-1997, we had one of the best TV deals coupled with top 2 attendance. Yet we have a much higher payroll now. How did we do that??? I would lockk this thread, not only is it useless speculation, but it goes nowhere other then potentially start a flame war.
     
  16. ranold26

    ranold26 Tuukka likes the post...

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    50m x 30 clubs = 1.5b salaries

    1.5b x 1/.54 = 2.77b in revenue [.54 minimum, could go up to .59]

    2.77b / 30 clubs = 92m average revenue per club.

    Achievable, but highly unlikely. I support your claim.
     
  17. nhlbruin

    nhlbruin Registered User

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    The salary cap is now and will stay the same for every team. The only way it goes up or down is if the entire league on average makes more or less money, and if it does go up or down, it will for all teams at the same time. Montreal has some of the most passionate fans in the league, and like you said, they'll continue to come out to the Bell Centre without hesitation. I find it very hard to believe that the NHL as a whole could make enough money in a season to increase the cap for the following year without Montreal making some serious cash...they will find a way...paying less $ in salaries, small ticket increase, increased merchandising, more team and arena sponsorships, etc... If the cap goes up, there's no way their funds wouldn't have gone up as well, which would offset the additional spending (if they were to go to cap max, which i suspect they will do). Trust me....Montreal is NOT one of the teams we need to be worrying about!
     
  18. GSC2k2*

    GSC2k2* Guest

    Your calculation is flawed. You are working on the basis of an AVERAGE salary of $50 million. That is different from the CPA of $50 million, which appears to be about $8 to $8.5 million over the cap. Assuming $8 million, the average salary would be $42 million. Plugging that into your calcs:

    42m x 30 = 1.26 B

    1.26 B x 1/.54 = $2.33 billion league revenue

    I still believe it to be unachievable, but I wanted to ensure the discussion is based on actual figures. NHL revenues were getting close to being maxed out in many markets, IMO. TV is the only available opportunity to make seriously more dollars.
     
  19. AH

    AH Registered User

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    The NHL is going to have a $500 million rise in revenue? whatever .............
     
  20. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    Montreal hurt by CBA?

    What's so painful about drops in player costs allowing for revenues to increase?

    I guess Montreal is one of those expansion teams we should be moving. Looks like the Kansas City Habs will be hitting the ice in 06-07

    LETS GO HABS LETS GO HABS!
     
  21. Traitor8

    Traitor8 Registered User

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    3 yrs ago, our payroll was at 48 M $ (top 10 in the league)
    then it went tot 45 M $ and then to 43 M $ ...

    that's a lot of spending...don't see why they wouldn't do that again...
     
  22. Masao

    Masao Registered User

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    It's not because I bought a 500 bucks home teather system last week and a laptop the week before that I'm going to continue spending now. In fact, I'm completely broke right now and I'm about to put a bullet in my head.

    I suppose it's the same thing for the Habs... at least, on a bigger scale.
     
  23. free0717

    free0717 Registered User

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    Why cant the Canadians petition the Government of Quebec and the City of Montreal to give them a break on the Real Estate Taxes as this is necessary to competitive both financially and on the Ice. Local Governments in the US give tax breaks all the time to business' who employ citizens and need a break to stay competitive in this market. What does the Government want the Habs to do? Move and take all the jobs and money the Habs generate and go to some American City? Im not sure how things work in Canada but I cant see the City of Montreal and the province of Quebec ever consider letting the Habs move.
     
  24. dolfanar

    dolfanar Registered User

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    Simple, any Government dumb enough to make that deal with the Habs, a super successful business, while the province is strapped for cash for social spending would get annihilated in any election.
     
  25. ScottyBowman

    ScottyBowman Registered User

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    Revenue is already taking a big hit with all the ticket prices dropping. I can't see $50 mil payrolls for at least 10 years.
     
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