Cat to the table: Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

[Eternal Leaf]

Didn't the players just vote Matthews as the third best player to start a franchise with?

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I'm not doubting what Matthews stats are this year compared to his rookie season and I know his injuries played a role in that. My main point is why was it ok to say what Laine was projected to do after his concussion and saying he would have won the Calder, however it's wrong for Leafs fans to say what Matthews stats might have been? Are those not the same things?

It’s not I myself said Matthews deserved to win the Calder... He played more games, had more points and had more goals, he deserved it. It’s fair to make an argument for PPG and GPG, but the issue with that is whenever Jets fans did it they got ridiculed, and now that what happened to Laine is now happening to Matthews in a worse degree it’s now okay to assume Matthews is having a better season. Nope, I don’t think that should slide..

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Didn't the players just vote Matthews as the third best player to start a franchise with?

Lol great argument

This is very subjective, Performance says otherwise.

 

[Tralfamadore]

For the Avs I take Laine.

 

[Coach]

How many times does Matthews have to beat Laine, before the Laine mega-fans understand? Matthews went 1st overall. Laine 2nd. Matthews scored 40 as a rookie. Laine scored 36. Matthews won the Calder. Laine didn't win anything. Matthews wins all these polls. Laine does not.

Laine is an amazing young player. Congrats on that. But Matthews wins. Okay? Deal with it.

Laine (76 goals in 141 Games) > Matthews (68 goals in 135 Games).
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[goblin3]

Just like it's not the same thing when Laine played 73 games in his rookie season and saying if he played all 82 he would have won the Calder over Matthews who played 82 games.

I mean he could've, but what matters the most is the real results and Matthews won there and deserved the Calder.

It's fine to speculate where Matthews would be without injuries, but again, real results > speculation.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It’s not I myself said Matthews deserved to win the Calder... He played more games, had more points and had more goals, he deserved it. It’s fair to make an argument for PPG and GPG, but the issue with that is whenever Jets fans did it they got ridiculed, and now that what happened to Laine is now happening to Matthews in a worse degree it’s now okay to assume Matthews is having a better season. Nope, I don’t think that should slide..

I personally don't like it when anyone says this is what a players stats would be if he played all 82 games because in the end it's fictional. What I don't like is the comments that Laine would have won the Calder if he played all 82 games, because we honestly don't know how the vote would have looked. Even with Laine finishing 4 goals behind and 6 total points behind Matthews, it wasn't even close when it came to 1st place votes and that said a lot.

 

[Space Coyote]

Laine is a better player as a winger.

Matthews is a better player as a center.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I personally don't like it when anyone says this is what a players stats would be if he played all 82 games because in the end it's fictional. What I don't like is the comments that Laine would have won the Calder if he played all 82 games, because we honestly don't know how the vote would have looked. Even with Laine finishing 4 goals behind and 6 total points behind Matthews, it wasn't even close when it came to 1st place votes and that said a lot.

Again I am Jets fan, I would have had to vote Matthews because he finished the season with more points and goals... It’s no surprise why Matthews got so many 1st place Calder votes, cause he deserved them. Would he get less if Laine finished the season? Who knows, maybe or maybe not, but he deserved it. But today the roles have reversed and you can clearly see the many Leaf fans want to be hypocritical and use excuses they sought out agaisnt last season... It’s really unfair that Laine has our performed Matthews this season(and technically career wise so far) and he’s getting blown out by an army Leaf fans in this poll.

 

[Mbraunm]

Matthews is definitely the better overall player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Again I am Jets fan, I would have had to vote Matthews because he finished the season with more points and goals... It’s no surprise why Matthews got so many 1st place Calder votes, cause he deserved them. Would he get less if Laine finished the season? Who knows, maybe or maybe not, but he deserved it. But today the roles have reversed and you can clearly see the many Leaf fans want to be hypocritical and use excuses they sought out agaisnt last season... It’s really unfair that Laine has our performed Matthews this season(and technically career wise so far) and he’s getting blown out by an army Leaf fans in this poll.

If any Leafs fans are brining up Matthews stats had he not been injured I say it's because some Jets fans first did it when Laine was injured. I can't speak for them and I can only speak for myself because it's my opinion why it's happening and like I previously said, I think bringing up hypothetical stats does no good.

 

[biotk]

Laine (76 goals in 141 Games) > Matthews (68 goals in 135 Games).
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

At anytime this season, which started 159 days ago, if you compared Matthews' career goals and career goals per game to Laine's Matthews would have come out ahead - until 10 days ago for career goals and 8 days ago for career goals per game.

So your truth relies on an injury to one player and a hot streak for the other.

 

[Coach]

So how come last season when Laine missed those 8 games because of a concussion it was ok for Jets fans to say he would have scored 40 goals or more and won the Calder instead of Matthews. Isn't that the same thing when Leafs fans say what Matthews stats might be if he never got injured? If so doesn't that mean it's a double standard?

Ok we can give Matthews season 1, Laine season 2.
We can let cumulative totals for the 2 years to decide who is better.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

If any Leafs fans are brining up Matthews stats had he not been injured I say it's because some Jets fans first did it when Laine was injured. I can't speak for them and I can only speak for myself because it's my opinion why it's happening and like I previously said, I think bringing up hypothetical stats does no good.

I agree 100%, it’s all subjective. But every time the guy with more Points/ and or goals should be the favourite as the better player(unless we are talking one less point in like 20 less games or something like that).

I honestly think these guys are as good of a talent you can find under the name McDavid, I know they will go back and fourth through the years on who’s having better seasons but it does really piss me off when the other side can’t admit when a guy is currently better. I can admit Matthews had a better year as a rookie and is a very good player, but I just can’t do that this year.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Ok we can give Matthews season 1, Laine season 2.
We can let cumulative totals for the 2 years to decide who is better.

Allot of the poll voters don’t read stats and watch performance, they watch TSN and Leafs lunch and think from there on

But anyways if they where to do that it wouldn’t be the result they want...


Some might wanna cover they’re eyes cause here’s the stat sheet.

Career Totals:

Laine:

141 Games Played
76 Goals
51 Assists
127 Points
-
0.90 PPG
0.54 GPG
-
3.13 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.87 Goals Per 60 Minutes

Matthews:

135 Games Played
68 Goals
51 Assists
119 Points
-
0.88 PPG
0.50 GPG
-
2.96 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.69 Goals Per 60 Minutes

 

[Coach]

At anytime this season, which started 159 days ago, if you compared Matthews' career goals and career goals per game to Laine's Matthews would have come out ahead - until 10 days ago for career goals and 8 days ago for career goals per game.

So your truth relies on an injury to one player and a hot streak for the other.

Cumulative totals include both players streaks and valleys. It is all the data we have.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I agree 100%, it’s all subjective. But every time the guy with more Points/ and or goals should be the favourite as the better player(unless we are talking one less point in like 20 less games or something like that).

I honestly think these guys are as good of a talent you can find under the name McDavid, I know they will go back and fourth through the years on who’s having better seasons but it does really piss me off when the other side can’t admit when a guy is currently better. I can admit Matthews had a better year as a rookie and is a very good player, but I just can’t do that this year.

Like I have said before besides them being 1st and 2nd overall in the 2016 draft, we need to stop comparing them and their careers to each other. Matthews plays in the Eastern Conference, Laine plays in the Western Conference. So that means in the regular season only they play each other 2x a year.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Didn't the players just vote Matthews as the third best player to start a franchise with?

actual voting was done months ago apparently

 

[nobody]

Polls comparing Elite Centers to Elite Wingers rarely turn out in the Wingers favour. I don't know why we need to do this. I think at this point, Leafs fans are happy for the Jets and Laine and I'm sure Jets fans are happy for the Leafs and Matty. We're trying to create some sort of a competition where no real competition exists. Both teams are winners from that draft and are looking at many years of success upcoming.

 

[Mbraunm]

With all data, including underlying metrics, I cannot see how Laine is a better player than Matthews.

 

[biotk]

Again I am Jets fan, I would have had to vote Matthews because he finished the season with more points and goals... It’s no surprise why Matthews got so many 1st place Calder votes, cause he deserved them. Would he get less if Laine finished the season? Who knows, maybe or maybe not, but he deserved it. But today the roles have reversed and you can clearly see the many Leaf fans want to be hypocritical and use excuses they sought out agaisnt last season... It’s really unfair that Laine has our performed Matthews this season(and technically career wise so far) and he’s getting blown out by an army Leaf fans in this poll.

I think this is kind of discussing two very different things. When it comes to the Calder, or the Hart, or the Rocket, numbers - such as goals matter more than goals per game. Last year I felt that the Calder would go to the player who put up the most points - for most of the season I thought that would be Laine. Now personally, I think that points are over-rated (as are ppg), so I think that is a stupid way to award the Calder, but regardless, I figured that was the way the majority of voters would go.

If the question is, who is going to get more goals this year - that will be Laine. All summer Laine was my bet for the Rocket, and then I was surprised by the slow start, but I am glad to see where he is now.

If the question is, who is better, which is the question being asked here, my answer is Matthews because 1) I despise polls that are created comparing two players when one of the players is on a hot streak or cold streak and 2) I value a lot of things over points. For instance, this season in terms of QoC, Crosby is in the 96th percentile, Malkin is in the 78th percentile and Kessel in the 61st (the latter two also get the most OZ starts). So I don't care if Malkin or Kessel ends up with more points than Crosby. Every coach in the league knows which of those 3 is better - and currently it is the one who has the least points of the 3.

 

[nobody]

Allot of the poll voters don’t read stats and watch performance, they watch TSN and Leafs lunch and think from there on

But anyways if they where to do that it wouldn’t be the result they want...


Some might wanna cover they’re eyes cause here’s the stat sheet.

Career Totals:

Laine:

141 Games Played
76 Goals
51 Assists
127 Points
-
0.90 PPG
0.54 GPG
-
3.13 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.87 Goals Per 60 Minutes

Matthews:

135 Games Played
68 Goals
51 Assists
119 Points
-
0.88 PPG
0.59 GPG
-
2.96 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.69 Goals Per 60 Minutes

Can you separate their PP and ES numbers for even more in depth analysis? Laine certainly has been lights out on the PP over his career to this point. And if you do advanced stats, add in quality of competition faced as well! Thank you

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Can you separate their PP and ES numbers for even more in depth analysis? Laine certainly has been lights out on the PP over his career to this point. And if you do advanced stats, add in quality of competition faced as well! Thank you

Who’s been a better player through they’re career Ovechkin or Malkin? Can you evaluate they’re career PP and ES points and Goals for me? No that’s called an excuse.

 

[goblin3]

Allot of the poll voters don’t read stats and watch performance, they watch TSN and Leafs lunch and think from there on

But anyways if they where to do that it wouldn’t be the result they want...


Some might wanna cover they’re eyes cause here’s the stat sheet.

Career Totals:

Laine:

141 Games Played
76 Goals
51 Assists
127 Points
-
0.90 PPG
0.54 GPG
-
3.13 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.87 Goals Per 60 Minutes

Matthews:

135 Games Played
68 Goals
51 Assists
119 Points
-
0.88 PPG
0.59 GPG
-
2.96 Points Per 60 Minutes
1.69 Goals Per 60 Minutes

You have a typo there. Matthews GPG should be 0.50, not 0.59

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

You have a typo there. Matthews GPG should be 0.50, not 0.59

Lol yes, my mistake.