Cat to the table: Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

Better player?


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The Winter Soldier

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great talent indeed. whats even better is the irony in that laine only has 23 goals at es when he's played many more games than matthews, who has more es goals (26) in fewer games. hmmmmmmm...........

The difference in TOI as to games is still not that great. Laine averages only 16+ mins a game. Matthews 18+ mins a game. I looked at corsica numbers and there was only roughly a 100 min difference of the 2. Regardless, PP efficiency wins games in the regular season and the playoffs. To downplay this would be foolish.
 
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rent free

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Besides the difference wasent huge or anything...

What amuses me is how similar these players production is that we all fight over decimals to prove a point. Its a luxury i doubt we will have any time soon again so enjoy while it lasts.

Thats said matthews gf% this season has been utterly disgusting something like close to 70%??. I think he also is at +23 or something like that in plus/minis. Just insane how effective he is 5v5
yah he's been great and his importance is really shown. we're not that great of a team without him.
 

rent free

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The difference in TOI as to games is still not that great. Laine averages only 16+ mins a game. Matthews 18+ mins a game. I looked at corsica numbers and there was only roughly a 100 min difference of the 2. Regardless, PP efficiency wins games in the regular season and the playoffs. To downplay this would be foolish.
fair. good arguement
 
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Narow

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You are correct that Matthews is currently +23 and to put it in perspective in his rookie season he was only a +2. Now once he returns to the lineup his +/- will change when he scores more 5v5 goals and hope he's not on for any goals against. However right now it's a 21 point difference.
I think he can still end up with 35+ goals despite missing so much depending on how he looks when returning. My reasoning is that it is because thats what laine did (altho he missed less games) and matthews can pull it off i believe.

The way i see it is that if one can do it both can. This is something both has shown us so far.

I said this before, that what you leafs fan see laine do now is something that matthews is also able to do so i hope you guys enjoy the show. Catch his game tonight lets see if the streak continues.
 
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LeafsNation75

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yah he's been great and his importance is really shown. we're not that great of a team without him.
It's hard to believe that when Matthews suffered his first injury this season the Leafs won 4 games in a row until he returned to the lineup, compared to his second injury when they won 2 games until he returned and so far during this current injury they have only won 2 games.
 

Narow

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yah he's been great and his importance is really shown. we're not that great of a team without him.
Obviously any team loosing their dominant scorer will take a hit without him.

Especially in guys like laine or matthews who stand for aroubd 15% of their teams goals over a season...remove 15% even for a small period of time and it can kill a team
 

Lovedemfanboys

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Except that in the Aho/Marner thread my argument included more than just points. So no, there is no double standard.

So no one ever mentions Matthews' gpg? It's just Finns who use ppg and gpg? Calling out Finns for it when every single fan base, even Leafs fans, uses injuries as excuse is a double standard.
 

kelsier

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Let's just call it even to make both parties happy here right now. Injuries and position really do not factor into who is the best player. But let's play it if it did. So let's look at both years where both players were healthy and hurt.

Laine
142 GP. 77 goals, 128 pts
GPG .542
PPG .901

Matthews
135GP. 68, 119 pts
GPG .504
PPG .881

Right now it is close. Slight edge statistically for Laine.

I believe Laine will be the BP from the 2016 draft given what he is already accomplishing as a teenager. One can only surmise he will be much better as a 20 year old.

Really you cannot go wrong with either player. But the fact I think Laine will score 500 goals before he is 30 years old. Sometime in his 29 year old season if he stays healthy. It would take a player of immense production to be better than him. I don't see this.

So to be fair, because Matthews is hurt. It is close. But going fwd, I expect Laine will get more voters on his side as the better player given what he has already accomplished as a teenager and that he was not nearly as developed as Matthews was when both entered the NHL.

Yeah it has been close looking purely by points as you showed. It's still funny to think back all the debates and how Laine was not supposed to be anywhere near at the same level. Today it looks the opposite if anything. Laine has had more growing pains and it makes sense since he was pretty badly injured in the juniors and is considerably younger. So our judgement for him most probably having the highest ceiling out of 2016 draftees wasn't at all off. It's been more of a surprise that he's already been able to thrive in the league despite of being a bigger project. Just the idea of getting close to 50 goals while playing 16+ min average in today's era is an insane accomplishment for a player of any age. Anyway, at the end of the day both of these guys' careers have been pleasant surprises, no arguing there.
 
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rent free

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Obviously any team loosing their dominant scorer will take a hit without him.

Especially in guys like laine or matthews who stand for aroubd 15% of their teams goals over a season...remove 15% even for a small period of time and it can kill a team
winnipeg missed scheiffle and didnt miss a beat. i feel like it'd be the same with laine. if he was hurt winnipeg wouldn't faulter at all.
 

LeafsNation75

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I think he can still end up with 35+ goals despite missing so much depending on how he looks when returning. My reasoning is that it is because thats what laine did (altho he missed less games) and matthews can pull it off i believe.

The way i see it is that if one can do it both can. This is something both has shown us so far.

I said this before, that what you leafs fan see laine do now is something that matthews is also able to do so i hope you guys enjoy the show. Catch his game tonight lets see if the streak continues.
Matthews getting 35 goals or more would be great and he can strike at any time for a multiple goal game. Just look at what he did in his first games back from his previous injuries.





 

Narow

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winnipeg missed scheiffle and didnt miss a beat. i feel like it'd be the same with laine. if he was hurt winnipeg wouldn't faulter at all.
Well they had laine going crazy so....

Thing is jets have good depth laine/scheifele and to a lesser extent wheeler and ehlerd are players who can decide single games by thenselves. As long as not all of them are injured jets can still win games but it really hurts missing a player like scheifele...
 

rent free

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Well they had laine going crazy so....

Thing is jets have good depth laine/scheifele and to a lesser extent wheeler and ehlerd are players who can decide single games by thenselves. As long as not all of them are injured jets can still win games but it really hurts missing a player like scheifele...
laine only had 6 goals when scheifele was out 6 weeks. i was referring to that injury in case you thought i was talking about the 2nd one. wheeler went in the #1 C position and played amazing there
 

Narow

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laine only had 6 goals when scheifele was out 6 weeks. i was referring to that injury in case you thought i was talking about the 2nd one. wheeler went in the #1 C position and played amazing there
Ah then i see.

Wasent laine wheelers winger then tho??
 

Narow

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yah but wasn't laine on the 3rd line or something like that?
Hmm im not sure. I believe as soon as wheeler was moved to c he got laine on the wing. I may be wrong tho. Anyways point is losing any of ehlers laine wheeler scheifele definatly hurts but they have enough talent leftover to still give a fight and win.

On the d side you have buff who can be so good but at times you just wondee what he is doing.

Also hellebuck has been fire for the jets this season so thats also a big part to why they qin despite injuries at a higher rate than last season from what i understand.
 

rent free

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Hmm im not sure. I believe as soon as wheeler was moved to c he got laine on the wing. I may be wrong tho. Anyways point is losing any of ehlers laine wheeler scheifele definatly hurts but they have enough talent leftover to still give a fight and win.

On the d side you have buff who can be so good but at times you just wondee what he is doing.

Also hellebuck has been fire for the jets this season so thats also a big part to why they qin despite injuries at a higher rate than last season from what i understand.
ik at some point in the season laine was on the 3rd line but ik it didn't last that long. you're probably right tbh.
 

Narow

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ik at some point in the season laine was on the 3rd line but ik it didn't last that long. you're probably right tbh.
He very well might have been. I havent followed this season nearly as close as the previous one so cant say. I know he played a game with copp prior to stadtnys arrival. But very possible he played a third earlier too. Surely someone here can confirm that.
 

rent free

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He very well might have been. I havent followed this season nearly as close as the previous one so cant say. I know he played a game with copp prior to stadtnys arrival. But very possible he played a third earlier too. Surely someone here can confirm that.
i'm pretty sure he played with ehlers on the 3rd line at some point or another
 

Critical13

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Feb 25, 2017
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multiple players "carried" the Leafs last season. it was a team effort to make the playoffs. five players with over 60pts and decent goaltending. That is like saying right now Laine is carrying the Jets to the playoffs this season. meanwhile there are other players whom have over 60pts and better goaltending than the previous year.

You are basically saying what I was saying, not sure what your end goal with these posts are.
 

Cotton

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So no one ever mentions Matthews' gpg? It's just Finns who use ppg and gpg? Calling out Finns for it when every single fan base, even Leafs fans, uses injuries as excuse is a double standard.

Didn’t you quote me and accuse me of only using points as an argument in the Marner/Aho thread? That’s what I was responding too, that my argument also including possession stats, ice-time and takeaway differential. It wasn’t just points.
 

Lovedemfanboys

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Didn’t you quote me and accuse me of only using points as an argument in the Marner/Aho thread? That’s what I was responding too, that my argument also including possession stats, ice-time and takeaway differential. It wasn’t just points.

No, I have no problem with your post in the Marner vs Aho thread. I tried to show to that Leafsnation guy that using injuries as an "excuse" isn't only Finnish thing.
 
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