Prospect Info: Casey Staum - 124th overall

[LaP]

don't think any player has recovered in history from such bad stats in the USHL post draft. he and koberstein are mega busts.

It's a 5th round pick. I don't think a 5th round pick can actually bust. The chances for a player drafted in this round to make the NHL are very slim.

 

[montreal]

Montreal, just another out of left field pick that will stay out of left field. Again. It's Mac Bennett part 2 with even less success if that's possible.

had no problem with the Bennett pick, he was better then Pateryn at Michigan and while undersized he was handled very poorly by Lefebvre imo. Not saying he would have made it under a different coach, but he had the skating/speed/mobility you want in today's game. That said he reminds me a bit of David Fischer, big Sophomore season, struggled to take a step forward after that and production went down as he became an upperclassman. They are the opposite of Evans who has just gotten better every year. I know from time to time you are going to kids that will just peak at 18/19/20 ala Collberg, etc...

 

[Whitesnake]

It's a 5th round pick. I don't think a 5th round pick can actually bust. The chances for a player drafted in this round to make the NHL are very slim.

I agree. They are no busts. But still bad pick because of the thought process. Not on anybody,s radar, type of pick, as I said before, that was either found 'cause we are so great.....or a proof that we are so bad 'cause he was not on anybody's radar but us.

Again, people keep talking about how the draft is a crapshoot. And yet, those picks are crapshooting the crapshoot. How do people expect to see it work? Gallagher was the antithesis from that strategy. Bigger and the guy is a 1st or 2nd rounder. So at round 5...OF COURSE you pick him. He is CLEARLY the BPA at that spot. Just like DeBrincat who kept crushing every record out there...he should have been a 1st rounder. Yes, I know...it doesn't always work too...see Corey Locke. But I prefer to miss on a Locke than on an unknown who will remain unkwown. If it is a crapshoot, gives yourselves more chances by going with things you know. Not something you think, that might, maybe, probably, somehow, be a potential...maybe.

People love the Jake Evans pick right now. I loved it too. I don't think he'll amount to anything in the NHL...but it's still a great pick. And yet..,he was not unknown. He was #101 on the CSS rankings. So of course you pick him. If you miss, miss with something more obvious than out of left field Staum, Koberstein, Crisp. It's MUCH better to miss with Collberg. Why? 'Cause you go with talent....and too bad if that doesn't pan out. But another reason to....if you move quickly if you find something that makes you believe he'll never make it....going with talent STILL gives you value. We got Vanek because we went with skills in the draft.

 

[montreal]

I agree. They are no busts. But still bad pick because of the thought process. Not on anybody,s radar, type of pick, as I said before, that was either found 'cause we are so great.....or a proof that we are so bad 'cause he was not on anybody's radar but us.

Again, people keep talking about how the draft is a crapshoot. And yet, those picks are crapshooting the crapshoot. How do people expect to see it work? Gallagher was the antithesis from that strategy. Bigger and the guy is a 1st or 2nd rounder. So at round 5...OF COURSE you pick him. He is CLEARLY the BPA at that spot. Just like DeBrincat who kept crushing every record out there...he should have been a 1st rounder. Yes, I know...it doesn't always work too...see Corey Locke. But I prefer to miss on a Locke than on an unknown who will remain unkwown. If it is a crapshoot, gives yourselves more chances by going with things you know. Not something you think, that might, maybe, probably, somehow, be a potential...maybe.

People love the Jake Evans pick right now. I loved it too. I don't think he'll amount to anything in the NHL...but it's still a great pick. And yet..,he was not unknown. He was #101 on the CSS rankings. So of course you pick him. If you miss, miss with something more obvious than out of left field Staum, Koberstein, Crisp. It's MUCH better to miss with Collberg. Why? 'Cause you go with talent....and too bad if that doesn't pan out. But another reason to....if you move quickly if you find something that makes you believe he'll never make it....going with talent STILL gives you value. We got Vanek because we went with skills in the draft.

The draft is a crapshoot in the sense of the stats on picks picked after the top 10, top 20, top 50, top 100, etc... The odds for the later and later picks are terrible for a reason. That doesn't mean you won't find NHLers in those rounds, just that clearly it doesn't happen often or the odds would be much better.

I don't agree that you always go skill, I think it's ok to find 3rd and 4th liners that provide cheap depth but it's all about context, where they were picked etc... I know it's not a popular opinion, but I"m ok with picking Chipchura at 18th or McCarron at 25th if they become top 4th liners that help you win in the playoffs. Skill is great but to me there's got to be some kind of balance.

 

[Whitesnake]

The draft is a crapshoot in the sense of the stats on picks picked after the top 10, top 20, top 50, top 100, etc... The odds for the later and later picks are terrible for a reason. That doesn't mean you won't find NHLers in those rounds, just that clearly it doesn't happen often or the odds would be much better.

I don't agree that you always go skill, I think it's ok to find 3rd and 4th liners that provide cheap depth but it's all about context, where they were picked etc... I know it's not a popular opinion, but I"m ok with picking Chipchura at 18th or McCarron at 25th if they become top 4th liners that help you win in the playoffs. Skill is great but to me there's got to be some kind of balance.

Well we will agree to disagree. 'Cause at some point skills players in juniors can actually become role players to. There are plenty of examples to do that. And when you really need fillers to go further in the playoffs, you can acquire them easily at a cheap price during the summer, or trade deadline. A kid who is already pencilled a 4th liner when you pick him, that might actually be the best case scenario. While the skilled players that you actually might pencil as a top 6...well maybe he can transform his game into a bottom 6 to.

AS far as the crapshoot is concerned, I know. Stats are awful as there are less and less interesting prospects and tougher to find. So....why would you go totally out of left fied when it's even harder to predict? Stick to Gallagher types of players. Go with Steenburgen. Not saying it will translate...but what is the difference between an unkwnon who never shined and a known who did shine but it might be projected that it could be tougher in the higher league.

 

[montreal]

Well we will agree to disagree. 'Cause at some point skills players in juniors can actually become role players to. There are plenty of examples to do that. And when you really need fillers to go further in the playoffs, you can acquire them easily at a cheap price during the summer, or trade deadline. A kid who is already pencilled a 4th liner when you pick him, that might actually be the best case scenario. While the skilled players that you actually might pencil as a top 6...well maybe he can transform his game into a bottom 6 to.

AS far as the crapshoot is concerned, I know. Stats are awful as there are less and less interesting prospects and tougher to find. So....why would you go totally out of left fied when it's even harder to predict? Stick to Gallagher types of players. Go with Steenburgen. Not saying it will translate...but what is the difference between an unkwnon who never shined and a known who did shine but it might be projected that it could be tougher in the higher league.

sometimes you need safer vs high risk. You can't have a ton of misses cause you went all high skill and it didn't pan out. If McCarron turns into a solid 4th liner that helps the Habs win, I don't see the issue.

As for why go out of left field, that's easy to me, you go for guys that you feel are underscouted for whatever reason. If you do it too much it will bite you but from time to time it makes sense if you have a good scout. At the time people talked about not taking Kopitar because of where he was from, Vanek, Kostitsyn since they came from much smaller hockey countries. Or Kreider while playing in the USHS in the same league that Higgins, Mac Bennett, Paquet, etc.. played in. Granted I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. I think as I said, you need balance. Skill vs safer players, CHLers vs USHL/USHS kids, Swedish/Finnish vs smaller hockey countries. I'm talking about over several years of drafting though. When you system is lagging, maybe you go for more CHLers if they rank around where you pick, if you are lacking skill take some flyers on smaller, skilled players etc...

 

[Whitesnake]

sometimes you need safer vs high risk. You can't have a ton of misses cause you went all high skill and it didn't pan out. If McCarron turns into a solid 4th liner that helps the Habs win, I don't see the issue.

As for why go out of left field, that's easy to me, you go for guys that you feel are underscouted for whatever reason. If you do it too much it will bite you but from time to time it makes sense if you have a good scout. At the time people talked about not taking Kopitar because of where he was from, Vanek, Kostitsyn since they came from much smaller hockey countries. Or Kreider while playing in the USHS in the same league that Higgins, Mac Bennett, Paquet, etc.. played in. Granted I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. I think as I said, you need balance. Skill vs safer players, CHLers vs USHL/USHS kids, Swedish/Finnish vs smaller hockey countries. I'm talking about over several years of drafting though. When you system is lagging, maybe you go for more CHLers if they rank around where you pick, if you are lacking skill take some flyers on smaller, skilled players etc...

Eveyrobyd you named from Kopitar, to Kostitsyn to Kreider were still pencilled to go around where they went. It was not a big fall nor was it a big reach. Again, not saying you don't need balance. Just saying that you might actually find the balance amongst the skilled players you go for. Yeah, I know, another era, but Guy Carbonneau was an offensive stud in the Q...and developed into one of the best 2-way player of his time. And there are tons of examples like that. Not sure people knew that Patrice Bergevin would be so incredible defensively etc. Just saying that the day you go for pure skills....and that players ends up less than what you think, there is a possibility he becomes a fillers. Once you go for what you know are already filled in junior leagues, chances are they develop into skilled guys are practically none.

In the end thought...what is the end result? If we can't know for sure how to do it in the future, how about we ask ourselves what happened in the past. And with one of the guys some said was and still is one of the best in the business.....Those hidden gems Timmins picked never worked. If some did, you probalby have to go back in 2003 and 2004 with Halak, Streit and Grabovski. But after? None whatsoever. And strangely, those hidden gems, especially Grabovski and Streit, what do they have in common? They were pure smallish skilled players. Not Crisp and Pezzetta mole. Now, people will want to tell me how I might be wrong on Pezzetta based on his present season....well that remains to be seen.

As of now, the only hidden gem that might be looking good is Vejdemo. But again....another guy known solely for his offensive prowess.

 

[montreal]

Eveyrobyd you named from Kopitar, to Kostitsyn to Kreider were still pencilled to go around where they went. It was not a big fall nor was it a big reach. Again, not saying you don't need balance. Just saying that you might actually find the balance amongst the skilled players you go for. Yeah, I know, another era, but Guy Carbonneau was an offensive stud in the Q...and developed into one of the best 2-way player of his time. And there are tons of examples like that. Not sure people knew that Patrice Bergevin would be so incredible defensively etc. Just saying that the day you go for pure skills....and that players ends up less than what you think, there is a possibility he becomes a fillers. Once you go for what you know are already filled in junior leagues, chances are they develop into skilled guys are practically none.

In the end thought...what is the end result? If we can't know for sure how to do it in the future, how about we ask ourselves what happened in the past. And with one of the guys some said was and still is one of the best in the business.....Those hidden gems Timmins picked never worked. If some did, you probalby have to go back in 2003 and 2004 with Halak, Streit and Grabovski. But after? None whatsoever. And strangely, those hidden gems, especially Grabovski and Streit, what do they have in common? They were pure smallish skilled players. Not Crisp and Pezzetta mole. Now, people will want to tell me how I might be wrong on Pezzetta based on his present season....well that remains to be seen.

As of now, the only hidden gem that might be looking good is Vejdemo. But again....another guy known solely for his offensive prowess.

It's hard to know what skilled junior player will turn into one of the greatest defensive forwards in Carbo or even someone as good as PB. Perhaps Timmins went a little overboard for a while there with the late round USHL/USHS/NCAA picks that didn't turn into anything but he seems to have corrected it with more CHL picks like Hudon, Gallagher, Dietz, Addison, Bourque, Audette. The Pezzetta pick I still wonder if Churla wasn't behind that but maybe we'll never know same for Crisp, Koberstein. Jake Evans is certainly a nice find so far out of the OJHL, maybe Primeau will be out of the USHL or Hawkey. Nygren was a good pick that just didn't work out, has lead the SHL and NLA the past 2 years in scoring for defensemen, really think he could have or will be an NHLer some day though maybe that ship is starting to sail.

Clearly we have had bad luck in Sweden, Finland over the years. Lehkonen certainly has changed that. We'll see about Ikonen, Vejdemo, Henrikson.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Adam Michaels]

He's no longer listed on Canadiens' Reserve List on CapFriendly.

I guess we can lock this thread now and delete it. Even though he was rarely, if ever, talked about.

 

[Whitesnake]

Casey Staum....another version of Mac Bennett that like him didn'T pan out. Coming out of nowhere...and stayed there. Sucks. But not surprising.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Less than 2 years from his draft.....was always a horrible pick 5th rd or not.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I actually had some hope for Mac Bennett for a while there, I'll admit I'm a sucker for a good skater though. Staum on the other hand felt like an iffy pick from the get go.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Less than 2 years from his draft.....was always a horrible pick 5th rd or not.

And they still held his for another year I believe. But as stated in the tweet, he doesn't seem like he wants to take the next step. He never went to the NCAA, he stayed in the USHL. So I guess Habs realized he's not progressing. Never expected much anyways.

 

[montreal]

And they still held his for another year I believe. But as stated in the tweet, he doesn't seem like he wants to take the next step. He never went to the NCAA, he stayed in the USHL. So I guess Habs realized he's not progressing. Never expected much anyways.

They would have had his rights for several more years if he opted to go the NCAA route after next season.

So here's what happened, he was committed to UNO but the coach that scouted him retired (or was forced out) so a lot of times when that happens new players will transfer. I never heard what his plan was, as he got injured in December or there abouts and missed the rest of the season. So I don't know why he's not transferring or if he is, where he's going after next season. Seems odd to cut ties since they had nothing to lose by waiting it out.

 

[The Great Weal]

Absolutely horrendous pick, don't care if it's the 5th round

 

[bsl]

Well we will agree to disagree. 'Cause at some point skills players in juniors can actually become role players to. There are plenty of examples to do that. And when you really need fillers to go further in the playoffs, you can acquire them easily at a cheap price during the summer, or trade deadline. A kid who is already pencilled a 4th liner when you pick him, that might actually be the best case scenario. While the skilled players that you actually might pencil as a top 6...well maybe he can transform his game into a bottom 6 to.

AS far as the crapshoot is concerned, I know. Stats are awful as there are less and less interesting prospects and tougher to find. So....why would you go totally out of left fied when it's even harder to predict? Stick to Gallagher types of players. Go with Steenburgen. Not saying it will translate...but what is the difference between an unkwnon who never shined and a known who did shine but it might be projected that it could be tougher in the higher league.

This is exactly correct. All players in nhl should have good offensive ability in the past. The prime example is carbonneau. He was a monster scorer in junior and became of the best d forwards ever. While able to chip in important goals because he had the talent and history of scoring.

You simply always pick offensive talent. Always.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

They would have had his rights for several more years if he opted to go the NCAA route after next season.

So here's what happened, he was committed to UNO but the coach that scouted him retired (or was forced out) so a lot of times when that happens new players will transfer. I never heard what his plan was, as he got injured in December or there abouts and missed the rest of the season. So I don't know why he's not transferring or if he is, where he's going after next season. Seems odd to cut ties since they had nothing to lose by waiting it out.

Maybe he's not going to NCAA at all? Probably realized he's not that good & is retiring.

 

[montreal]

Maybe he's not going to NCAA at all? Probably realized he's not that good & is retiring.

I never heard what the injury was or how bad, just that it cost him the season. I know his rights in the USHL were traded, but don't know if he's going to play or not.

 

[Tyson]

Wish I was a fly on he wall in the Habs war room when they decided he was worthy of being a 5th round pick.

 

[montreal]

Wish I was a fly on he wall in the Habs war room when they decided he was worthy of being a 5th round pick.

other then his skating don't know. He played in the Minnesota USHS at a top program but his numbers weren't all that impressive.

 

[Runner77]

Wish I was a fly on he wall in the Habs war room when they decided he was worthy of being a 5th round pick.

No worries. The scouts that recommended Staum are probably still with us, working their magic for the upcoming draft.

 

[lamp9post]

I actually had some hope for Mac Bennett for a while there, I'll admit I'm a sucker for a good skater though. Staum on the other hand felt like an iffy pick from the get go.

Bennett at least played a couple AHL seasons for us. Sure, he didn't make it, but not really fair to compare him to a guy who won't get a contract.

 

[Whitesnake]

Bennett at least played a couple AHL seasons for us. Sure, he didn't make it, but not really fair to compare him to a guy who won't get a contract.

The comparison was that the ONLY reason they picked both players were the same. Skating. That's it. They both had fluid skating. But absolutely nothing else. They thought they could build hockey players from the skating. In the end though, we are talking about NHL draft picks. And the first goal has to provide NHL players but at the very least....fine AHL'ers. In the end, nobody will remember Bennett just like Staum.

 

[Wats]

Maybe a case of him probably not wanting to play hockey anymore?