Carter vs. Malkin

[espo*]

Everyday you see yaping canadian players on the bench and on the ice. It is called " heart". Sometimes coaches get into the act. Some moron even called Scotty B. the idiot with the metal plank in his brain". Canadians are classless, when it comes to hockey. But when they were offering the uck off to the crowd in Moscow, it was priceless. Americans are not far away. Running their yups the same, trashing the hotel rooms, so minimum wage workers would clean after them.

North American players are CLASSLESS.

I can't believe you've gotten away with this post but anyway.

if you do live in Ottawa and plan to go out to the bars to check a few games out on the big screen this year i'm going to give you a heads up that you'll thank me for..................drink no more then 5-6 beers there.Hockey will be on screen and you've already got one strike against you being Russian in a juiced up Canadian hockey bar atmosphere .I've seen guys lose every tooth in their mouth up here
for a hell of a lot less in that scenario then what you might be capable of spewing out of your trap there. Just some friendly advice partner

 

[loadie]

How in the name of God did a comparison between Carter and Malkin end up with some of these dumbass comments? Jesus Christ, the thread started out with some good arguments for both players, and ended up like this? Some posters never cease to amaze me.

 

[Epsilon]

If Ovechkin was looking to taunt the Canadian team, he should have just told the reporter that "Bret Screwed Bret".

 

[TORRUS]

If Ovechkin was looking to taunt the Canadian team, he should have just told the reporter that "Bret Screwed Bret".

What does that mean?

 

[thomasincanada]

What does that mean?

It is what Vincent Kennedy McMahon said about Bret Hart after the infamous Montreal Screw Job. It's a wresting thing, in other words. Your life is probably more fulfilled *not* knowing what it means

 

[Wisent]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/Junior/2005/01/04/807137-sun.html



So he didn't know what he was saying? Right...

If you believe that, then you are the one who needs to re-shuffle the deck.



I never let EM off the hook. I didn't think what he did was too cool, but when a Cap fan claims EM taunting was worse than AO, it is blatant homerism.

At least EM didn't talk smack to Team Canada and then leave with an "injury"

EM at least gutted it out, which is more than I can say for AO.

If you are going to talk smack, you better back it up...not let your teammates clean up your mess.

Every country has its own sport phrases that are repeated and that sound different when they are uttered in their own language. Perhaps it doesn't have a negative connotation when it is translated into russian sports slang. That could be possible.

 

[the_gman83]

So....... how about that Jeff Carter guy?

 

[Mothra]

Players have finished a game and then went on to miss 20..30..40 games in a season.

and players have left games after an injury and missed weeks of time....and players have left games with injuries that at first seemed serious only to return the next game......what is your point? Who is to say not returning was his call......maybe coach/trainer told him to take off his skates.....

You can't tell me with 100% assurity he decided it wasn't worth going back into that game.

Any sane person would think about their future NHL career before making that decision.

Of course I cant.....You however have said he could have played. I never said there was no way he could have played....I just looked at the facts, he didnt play and he missed a month or so afterward. What has he done in the past that would lead one to believe he is a quitter? From all accounts he is a pretty tough kid who loves to play......what you are suggesting is he was scared to go back out there. The guy has been playing against men for a few years now.....at the highest level tournys.....I just dont see any evidence that he mailed it in.....I want you to read the below....these are all your quotes from this thread......you really seem to have a real hatred and I believe its clouding any thoughts. You are totally calling him out for getting injured.....at first you doubt the injury....then you doubt the severity.....actually, doubt is the wrong word.....you outright say he could have played.

If you question this, why not question every player that gets injured? I guess Gretzky quit on his team when Suter slammed him.....the list goes on


Especially when you leave the game with a "shoulder" injury

At least EM didn't talk smack to Team Canada and then leave with an "injury"

EM at least gutted it out, which is more than I can say for AO.

If you are going to talk smack, you better back it up...not let your teammates clean up your mess

Plenty of players have tuffed out worse injuries in a big game.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO

He talks smack, then leaves with an injury

if the players I mentioned could play through their injuries, AO could of played through his if he wanted to

I believe he mailed it in because Team Canada had them seriously outmatched

anyway....you are all over the place with your issue on this.....

First, you are really upset that some say what EM did was worse than what AO did. The original poster said this "Malkin also seems to possess a more mature professional attitude when compared to Kovalchuk and Ovechkin". I asked him to explain what he meant.....not seeing a reply all I can assume is its because what happened at the WJC. So, why cant I be upset for the exact same reason you are? This guy seems to say that what AO did was worse.......and I cant have issues with that?

Second, AO talked trash about team canada.....which I dont see. He spoke like he was confident he would win......you even broke it down to him saying "they arent good"....which isnt even close to what he said

Third, He either faked his injury or it wasnt near as bad

I just dont get what you are trying to do or say....its pretty clear you dont like AO at all

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

and players have left games after an injury and missed weeks of time....and players have left games with injuries that at first seemed serious only to return the next game......what is your point? Who is to say not returning was his call......maybe coach/trainer told him to take off his skates.....



Of course I cant.....You however have said he could have played. I never said there was no way he could have played....I just looked at the facts, he didnt play and he missed a month or so afterward. What has he done in the past that would lead one to believe he is a quitter? From all accounts he is a pretty tough kid who loves to play......what you are suggesting is he was scared to go back out there. The guy has been playing against men for a few years now.....at the highest level tournys.....I just dont see any evidence that he mailed it in.....I want you to read the below....these are all your quotes from this thread......you really seem to have a real hatred and I believe its clouding any thoughts. You are totally calling him out for getting injured.....at first you doubt the injury....then you doubt the severity.....actually, doubt is the wrong word.....you outright say he could have played.

If you question this, why not question every player that gets injured? I guess Gretzky quit on his team when Suter slammed him.....the list goes on


Especially when you leave the game with a "shoulder" injury

At least EM didn't talk smack to Team Canada and then leave with an "injury"

EM at least gutted it out, which is more than I can say for AO.

If you are going to talk smack, you better back it up...not let your teammates clean up your mess

Plenty of players have tuffed out worse injuries in a big game.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO

He talks smack, then leaves with an injury

if the players I mentioned could play through their injuries, AO could of played through his if he wanted to

I believe he mailed it in because Team Canada had them seriously outmatched

anyway....you are all over the place with your issue on this.....

First, you are really upset that some say what EM did was worse than what AO did. The original poster said this "Malkin also seems to possess a more mature professional attitude when compared to Kovalchuk and Ovechkin". I asked him to explain what he meant.....not seeing a reply all I can assume is its because what happened at the WJC. So, why cant I be upset for the exact same reason you are? This guy seems to say that what AO did was worse.......and I cant have issues with that?

Second, AO talked trash about team canada.....which I dont see. He spoke like he was confident he would win......you even broke it down to him saying "they arent good"....which isnt even close to what he said

Third, He either faked his injury or it wasnt near as bad

I just dont get what you are trying to do or say....its pretty clear you dont like AO at all

First off, you can be upset with whatever you please. But you don't have to attack EM to make your point.

I have no hate for AO. I like him and have been a huge Russian hockey fan since I was a child. My favorite all time player is actually Russian as well, Kharlamov.

So trying to make it out like I dislike AO or Russian hockey as the reasons for my comments, is totally untrue.

My point was never all over the place, it was the same from the beg., but other posters decided to make excuses why EM's actions where worse than AO...which is of course BS, but whatever right?

I already said what EM did was uncool, and I hope he would never repeat those actions.

You are a Cap fan and so you want to think AO is perfect. Thats cool. A little delusion, but to each their own.

You and other posters keep saying that "I see nothing wrong with what he said"

You are missing the whole point... The Canadian players took it as a slight, which it was, and used it as motivation.

There are dozens of articles written by the Canadian media about Ovechkin calling out Team Canada. It isn't like I'm making this up.

He knew what he was saying, and when I read the quotes the first time I couldn't believe how careless he was.

Then he gets injured in the game, and I listed other players who where injured worse than AO and still played.

Just because I like AO and love Russian hockey, doesn't mean I believe all of them are perfect...and I believe AO looked at the score and called it a night.

You believe he was hurt so badly he couldn't of continued on, so be it.

Doesn't make me a hater to think the guy thought about his future NHL career over a WJC gold metal game.

 

[Mothra]

First off, you can be upset with whatever you please. But you don't have to attack EM to make your point.

I am attacking EM? please explain....and, if I am attacking him what do you call what you are doing to AO....an all out assault? You have called him out on his attitude, his toughness, his willingness to be a good teammate...on and on.....yet what EM was simply "uncool"....yea, thats not being biased

I have no hate for AO. I like him and have been a huge Russian hockey fan since I was a child. My favorite all time player is actually Russian as well, Kharlamov.

So trying to make it out like I dislike AO or Russian hockey as the reasons for my comments, is totally untrue.

I will refer to post #83 where you say

"Coming from a big Russian fan, can't say I'm shocked at your post."

You are a Cap fan and so you want to think AO is perfect. Thats cool. A little delusion, but to each their own.
[\QUOTE]

why must you make things up.....show me where I made reference to him being perfect...or even eluding to that

Then he gets injured in the game, and I listed other players who where injured worse than AO and still played.

I still dont see what that has to do with anything.....the list of players that have been hurt and didnt come back id infinitely longer than any list you can provide. Again I ask.....are those guys quitters?

 

[wilka91*]

it's really funny how everyone thinks that a player's career is based on a single game at the WJC

why don't you look at how AO or Malkin played at the senior world championship???

why don't you compare their stats from Russia with Jagr's or Lecavalier's?

Anyway I think all "vs" threads regarding prospects should be forbidden. There is no real discussion in any of them. It's always MY player is better than YOURS!

 

[Levitate]

why don't you compare their stats from Russia with Jagr's or Lecavalier's?

well, first jagr destroyed either of them in the stats department. hell he had more points than malkin in 20 less games

but at any rate...it's difficult to compare anyways. lecavalier had never played european hockey before, was behind an enourmous language barrier (there was an article posted here that mentioned how he basically had no idea what was being said because no one translated for him) was in a completely new country...and honestly probably wasn't exactly playing at his best or trying as hard either. he was just there to be playing some hockey during the lockout, he didn't have much invested in it. idealy you'd like players to try their hardest wherever they're at, but that's not always the case.

it's kind of like expecting ovechkin or malkin to be the best player in the NHL in their rookie season when they're not used to the league at all, are still learning how to live in the US and deal with the language, all of that. they're still gonna do good but they have to adjust and it's gonna take a little while.

and honestly, malkin and ovechkin are probably at least as good of players as lecavalier anyways and could easily be better...i think he's kind of overrated anyways. he's got lots of skill but somehow it doesn't translate into as many points as you'd expect...

 

[Old Hickory]

Get back on topic or this thread will be closed. This is the only warning

 

[Zine]

Then he gets injured in the game, and I listed other players who where injured worse than AO and still played.

The problem is you have shown no evidence to back up this assertion. It is nothing but pure bias on your part to assume that Ovechkin quit on his team without, yourself, knowing all the facts.

Even if it was a light injury, in many cases severe injuries are easier to play through than light ones - it all depends on what part of the body is hurt.

Based on what I remember of that game and the fact that he later missed 20 games, I'd guess (speculation on my part) that he probably had a grade II or III shoulder seperation. Even Superman isn't gonna be able to return to the game with that type of injury.

 

[espo*]

How in the name of God did a comparison between Carter and Malkin end up with some of these dumbass comments? Jesus Christ, the thread started out with some good arguments for both players, and ended up like this? Some posters never cease to amaze me.

Seriously,i'm just trying to help the guy.I know how attitudes play out in the wrong places.Especially those ones.He'll be living here after all.

 

[octopi]

No many of these players where injured in the game and told by doctors not to go back into the game..but they still did. In fact, a majority of them had much worse injuries than AO.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO. Which is fine, but it lends credence to the theory that you shouldn't run your mouth before a game.

He talks smack, then leaves with an injury. Just doesn't look good.

That is why players should be humble and let their game do the talking, not their mouths.

Is this the "smack" you speak of?

"Do you remember Halifax, when all people said Team Canada would win the championship but we win and we prove all people Russia is better? We think Canada is just a team, not a god . . . nothing else."


Because I translated this to be a response to the fact everyone pretty much said Russia had no chance.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I'm surprised by the hype Carter is getting around here.
Sure he's a every good prospect, an excellent one if you want, and any team would love to have him.
That said, his good showing in the AHL doesn't garantee anything.
He still has some issues, like all prospects.
Hey, Ryan Whitney scored a point a game in his first pro action, had a great season last year and was even more impressive in his second playoff participation.
Is he talked about as Phaneuf like?
I don't mean Whitney is as good a prospect as Carter, but IMO Malkin has proved a lot more in the RSL than Carter in the AHL.
Carter is IMO a borderline top 10 prospect. Malkin is a sure lock top 5. He's more of a sure bet, he has more upside, he can be better in both ends of the ice.

a borderline top 10 prospect? I do hope your kidding.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am attacking EM? please explain....and, if I am attacking him what do you call what you are doing to AO....an all out assault? You have called him out on his attitude, his toughness, his willingness to be a good teammate...on and on.....yet what EM was simply "uncool"....yea, thats not being biased

Again, you can't prove anymore than I can that your opinion is right.

I will refer to post #83 where you say

"Coming from a big Russian fan, can't say I'm shocked at your post."

If I am not speaking in glowing terms about a Russian player, I can't say I was shocked at his insulting post.

Just because I am a huge fan of Russian hockey, doesn't mean I have to agree with or like all the things Russian players do.

I still dont see what that has to do with anything.....the list of players that have been hurt and didnt come back id infinitely longer than any list you can provide. Again I ask.....are those guys quitters?

I honestly can't understand this post, not trying to cut you down. just think you left out a word or two.

The problem is you have shown no evidence to back up this assertion. It is nothing but pure bias on your part to assume that Ovechkin quit on his team without, yourself, knowing all the facts.

Even if it was a light injury, in many cases severe injuries are easier to play through than light ones - it all depends on what part of the body is hurt.

Based on what I remember of that game and the fact that he later missed 20 games, I'd guess (speculation on my part) that he probably had a grade II or III shoulder seperation. Even Superman isn't gonna be able to return to the game with that type of injury.

Then I guess Emmitt Smith is superman. Because he had a grade II separation and came back in to play.

There is evidence for me to wonder. His team was being soundly beaten, and he had an NHL career to think about...so why jeopardize it by coming back into the game?

No one has all of the facts..but to say you are 100% certain he didn't come back purely because his injury was so bad, is also speculation.

Is this the "smack" you speak of?

"Do you remember Halifax, when all people said Team Canada would win the championship but we win and we prove all people Russia is better? We think Canada is just a team, not a god . . . nothing else."

Because I translated this to be a response to the fact everyone pretty much said Russia had no chance.

Why do people keep insisting they don't see this as smack, when that isn't the issue.

The issue is how Team Canada perceived it. They saw it as a slight and it motivated them. There is no argument against that, because it happened.

Again, what you or other ppl. think isn't really relevant to how the quote was taken.

 

[Mothra]

Again, you can't prove anymore than I can that your opinion is right.

Not sure what you mean...what does opinion have to do with what I asked?..all I asked was how am I attacking EM? You have been all over AO in this thread....have I said anything remotely similar to to your attacks on AO?

I honestly can't understand this post, not trying to cut you down. just think you left out a word or two.

what I am saying is....you totally blast AO for getting injured and not returning....listing a few hockey players that you assume were hurt worse and did come back.......what about the thousands of players that have been hurt and did not return that game....are they quitters? bad teammates? I dont understand your logic on this......is sounds like this, AO got hurt and didnt return like a few other players have done.....that makes him a bad teammate and he let his team down....if thats the case doesnt it stand to reason that all players that get hurt are bad teammates and let their mates down?

 

[Herby]

a borderline top 10 prospect? I do hope your kidding.

I think Evilo has a point. I don't think he is a Top 10 lock.

I think he is clearly behind guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Phaneuf, Lehtonen, Zherdev and Staal.

And probably about even with guys like Parise, Suter, Brown, Johnson and Ryan.

 

[Old Hickory]

Thread closed for a few posters inability to stay on topic