Carter vs. Malkin

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I dont care what your Canadian fans thought....or how hard it was for you to disagree.....

as for the injury...I have no idea......I will look at what happened afterward and use that as part of what I feel.....he came out on the ice in a sling and very emotional, not the look of a quitter.....he missed a good chunk of time afterward in the RSL. Had he come back and not missed a game....or even a couple games...you would have some ammunition....but of course thats not what happened, and you dont.

Players have finished a game and then went on to miss 20..30..40 games in a season.

You don't know for sure that he sat out of those games for precautionary reasons with his NHL career in mind. I wouldn't fault him for that.

The simple fact is you don't know, nor do I.

You can't tell me with 100% assurity he decided it wasn't worth going back into that game.

Any sane person would think about their future NHL career before making that decision.

 

[Marchy79]

Well why doesn't that surprise anyone...

This bashing is getting really old already.

Just curious, did any of you Canadian kids get to watch WC? If you did, how did Oveckin look like to you?

Edit: By WC I mean World Championships

Frickin amazing

I watched him when they played the States... AyO was stellar that game, he's got world class talent.

 

[zeke]

some people are going to be very dissappointed with Carter this year.

 

[sunb]

The Penguins and Flyers are my favorite teams, along with the Canucks.

So comparing the top prospects (Crosby is pretty much sold imo) from each team is like forcing me to choose between two very sexy cars.

Malkin has the higher ceiling while Carter is the safer option. That is the bottom line.

Both bring a wide array of intangibles and will be stars, imo.

But Malkin is better.

If Clarke was offered a Malkin - Carter trade, he would take it.
If Patrick was offered a Malkin - Carter trade, he wouldn't.

Simple as that.

 

[Evilo]

I'm surprised by the hype Carter is getting around here.
Sure he's a every good prospect, an excellent one if you want, and any team would love to have him.
That said, his good showing in the AHL doesn't garantee anything.
He still has some issues, like all prospects.
Hey, Ryan Whitney scored a point a game in his first pro action, had a great season last year and was even more impressive in his second playoff participation.
Is he talked about as Phaneuf like?
I don't mean Whitney is as good a prospect as Carter, but IMO Malkin has proved a lot more in the RSL than Carter in the AHL.
Carter is IMO a borderline top 10 prospect. Malkin is a sure lock top 5. He's more of a sure bet, he has more upside, he can be better in both ends of the ice.

 

[Marchy79]

some people are going to be very dissappointed with Carter this year.

I agree... I like the kid's potential... But it sounds like many people are thinking he'll be the second coming.

He's tremendously talented, but I don't see him posting the season people are talking about him having.

Honestly, I'd be shocked if Carter plays the entire season on the first line, the kid is NOT Eric Staal, and even Eric struggled in his first season in the show.

 

[thomasincanada]

I agree... I like the kid's potential... But it sounds like many people are thinking he'll be the second coming.

To be honest I don't see many posts saying Carter has the potential or is as high of a prospect as Malkin. I see a bunch of people getting their panties in a bunch because Carter is dared to be mentioned in the same breath as Malkin.

What I'm mostly getting out of this post is a bunch of people who think that proving yourself a top forward in Canadian Junior Hockey means little while playing well in the RSL is apparently a rock-solid, bet-your-house on it guarantee for success. As we all know Canadians do so little in the NHL and Russians contribute so much.

Oh wait.. I've got that last part backwards.

Tom

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Beaten, undoubtedly, but quite frankly I'm not sure that USA team assembled could have creamed anybody. The World Championship was filled with so many B and C list NHL players - many of whom were mailing it in - that I won't be awe inspired by anyone's performance.

Let Malkin and Ovechkin score on Canada in the Olympics and I'll be significantly more impressed. I have no question of their ability, but I'll wait until they have proven it in the NHL before proclaiming their greatness ( unlike many others around here ).

Tom

That U.S. team did cream somebody: Sweden. They also came within a decent 3rd period of beating the Czechs who went on to win the tournament.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

some people are going to be very dissappointed with Carter this year.

Some people are going to be very suprised with Carter this year. Guess we'll have to continue to disagree until Carter scores his first NHL goal and leads rookies in power-play goals. You can mark my words on that. He's been able to produce at every stage he's played on and now he'll be playing with a supercharged power-play featuring Forsberg, Johnsson, and Pitkanen. That cast could make Somik look good.

 

[Brad*]

some people are going to be very dissappointed with Carter this year.

Care to elaborate?

 

[EroCaps]

Beaten, undoubtedly, but quite frankly I'm not sure that USA team assembled could have creamed anybody. The World Championship was filled with so many B and C list NHL players - many of whom were mailing it in - that I won't be awe inspired by anyone's performance.

Let Malkin and Ovechkin score on Canada in the Olympics and I'll be significantly more impressed. I have no question of their ability, but I'll wait until they have proven it in the NHL before proclaiming their greatness ( unlike many others around here ).

Tom

Ovechkin did lead a World Championship Russian team in scoring a few months ago.

 

[SENATOR]

Everyday you see yaping canadian players on the bench and on the ice. It is called " heart". Sometimes coaches get into the act. Some moron even called Scotty B. the idiot with the metal plank in his brain". Canadians are classless, when it comes to hockey. But when they were offering the uck off to the crowd in Moscow, it was priceless. Americans are not far away. Running their yups the same, trashing the hotel rooms, so minimum wage workers would clean after them.

North American players are CLASSLESS.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well gee... that seems like a fairly unbiased and perceptive assessment.

 

[pens66]

Everyday you see yaping canadian players on the bench and on the ice. It is called " heart". Sometimes coaches get into the act. Some moron even called Scotty B. the idiot with the metal plank in his brain". Canadians are classless, when it comes to hockey. But when they were offering the uck off to the crowd in Moscow, it was priceless. Americans are not far away. Running their yups the same, trashing the hotel rooms, so minimum wage workers would clean after them.

North American players are CLASSLESS.

Wow! Talk about a biased opinion!

Scotty B had plenty of russian players on the red wings by the way. Federov even stated once that Scotty helped him become a better player.

By the way, why are you living in Ottawa, the capital city of canada, if you believe that north americans are classless??

 

[Marchy79]

To be honest I don't see many posts saying Carter has the potential or is as high of a prospect as Malkin. I see a bunch of people getting their panties in a bunch because Carter is dared to be mentioned in the same breath as Malkin.

What I'm mostly getting out of this post is a bunch of people who think that proving yourself a top forward in Canadian Junior Hockey means little while playing well in the RSL is apparently a rock-solid, bet-your-house on it guarantee for success. As we all know Canadians do so little in the NHL and Russians contribute so much.

Oh wait.. I've got that last part backwards.

Tom

No, I'm making mention that you're judging Carter against a potential franchise center.

Second off, there is NO comparison from Canadian Juniors to RSL hockey (seeing as to the RSL quality even defeats the AHL in terms of talent, and competitiveness). Malkin was a top player in the World's second best Men's pro league (which was upgraded to be THE best Mens pro league in the world last year, with the lock out and all)... Carter was on the Calder Cup winning Philly phantoms. Where he surprised many.
HOWEVER... We are talking apples to oranges. Malkin's on a level where he was compared to the Great Jean Beliveau, whereas Carter is compared to a poor man's Ron Francis. Now, Malkin has also done well in International play against MEN, where Carter did well internationally against BOYS.

With all this being said, Carter could be a very good player in Philly (I in fact have very little doubt of that)... However from what I've read, many fans expect this from him this year. Which I don't see. I guess I am one of the few that expects Carter to go through growing pains to reach his potential, as most good players do... Malkin will have some too... But remember, Malkin in many circles is compared favourably to Ovechkin (AKA where the Franchise Center tag came from), In fact, there was speculation that Washington was going to select Evgeny Malkin First, before Ovechkin when the draft was rounding it's way to form.

But because Malkin's a Russian, you might as well knock off 1/4 of his potential, because according to yourself, Russians don't play well in the playoffs <-- that is the biggest load of crap I read consistently from hockey fans... Every team has it's underperforming players, too bad it's in most NHL hockey fans nature to blame the Euro... When there is witness to crappy play by NA / Canadian kids come playoff time as well. What that is is labelling... And in this century of play, it's not only wrong, but offensive.

 

[thomasincanada]

But because Malkin's a Russian, you might as well knock off 1/4 of his potential, because according to yourself, Russians don't play well in the playoffs <-- that is the biggest load of crap I read consistently from hockey fans... Every team has it's underperforming players, too bad it's in most NHL hockey fans nature to blame the Euro... When there is witness to crappy play by NA / Canadian kids come playoff time as well. What that is is labelling... And in this century of play, it's not only wrong, but offensive.

Well.. I never said that Russians don't play well in the playoffs - you just assumed I did. Freudian slip maybe.

I alluded to the fact that Canada produces *way* more star NHL players than Russia and that is not only *not* offensive but the god's honest truth backed up by statistics (and rings).

If you're going to compare a guy to the great Jean Beliveau, you better do it based on what he does in the NHL. The rest truly doesn't count for jack.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I take that to mean that it's not cool then to compare Carter to Sundin or Francis? Nor any prospect to any of the games current or former greats?

That just seems like an inevitability. It isn't a indication that they will be as good as those players, just what their style of play reminds some of.

 

[Gags1288]

No, I'm making mention that you're judging Carter against a potential franchise center.

Malkin's on a level where he was compared to the Great Jean Beliveau, whereas Carter is compared to a poor man's Ron Francis.

I think the second quote shows a few things. #1) That you have never seen Jeff Carter play and #2) That you don't even know his style of play. Ron Francis was an average skater who was a tremendous playmaker and had great on ice vision. Jeff Carter is a tremendous skater who has a world class snap/wrist shot and is more of a goal scorer then a playmaker. Now if you had ever seen Jeff play, i'm pretty sure you'd have realized that even if you only saw him play for a period or two. I haven't seen anything like a Francis comparison, but the names Sundin and less physical Thornton have come up when discussing his upside.

If you don't think Carter has the potential to be a franchise player, well then I guess I disagree there. I think he has the potential to be a top 10, maybe top 5 NHL centerman. There's no doubt that Malkin's upside is higher. But honestly, what do you people want from Carter? The two highest levels he's played, he was dominant. He was all WJC twice and is the all time Canadian goal scorer in WJC history (tied with Lindros and did it in 2 years as opposed to 3 for Eric). Then he goes to the AHL and not only is he successful, he's dominant. Without Jeff and Mike, the Phantoms would have had zero chance of winning it all. And don't forget that the AHL was significantly better this year then usual and Jeff faced some young world class goaltenders (Lehtonen, Toivonen, and imo to a lesser extent Fleury).

For people saying Jeff is going to be a disappointment, I believe the only people he'll disappoint are leaf fans like zeke. His game is NHL ready, his linemates will be all world and his performance will show why he is so highly regarded. Sure he may go through some rookie growing pains, but he's going to put up SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers then most on here believe, that's just my opinion though.

 

[Zine]

Beaten, undoubtedly, but quite frankly I'm not sure that USA team assembled could have creamed anybody. The World Championship was filled with so many B and C list NHL players - many of whom were mailing it in - that I won't be awe inspired by anyone's performance.

I know the '05 Canadian WJC team was simply awsome, but lets not get carried away. They would have been literally dismantled by any of the top World Championship teams and would have had a tough time physically against other "lesser" nations.

Bergeron and Phaneuf were Canada's best players - and, at the time, would have been 'C' level NHL players. Some of those guys on that team aren't even gonna make the NHL. Kovalchuk, Alfredsson, Hossa, Modano, Kovalev and just about every other NHLer would have lit Glass up like a lamp. They're still kids for crying out loud.

 

[thomasincanada]

I take that to mean that it's not cool then to compare Carter to Sundin or Francis? Nor any prospect to any of the games current or former greats?

That just seems like an inevitability. It isn't a indication that they will be as good as those players, just what their style of play reminds some of.

The way he used comparisons - almost as a guarantee of success or something - and then took a very flattering Malkin comparison and made up a completely absurd Carter one.. well.. I think they were completely unrealistic and self-serving.

I've never been a big fan of comparisons - especially not when one tries to use them as evidence of future success.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Everyday you see yaping canadian players on the bench and on the ice. It is called " heart". Sometimes coaches get into the act. Some moron even called Scotty B. the idiot with the metal plank in his brain". Canadians are classless, when it comes to hockey. But when they were offering the uck off to the crowd in Moscow, it was priceless. Americans are not far away. Running their yups the same, trashing the hotel rooms, so minimum wage workers would clean after them.

North American players are CLASSLESS.

I'm sorry wasn't it Anson Carter who was having bananas thrown at him while he was playing in Russia?

 

[Epsilon]

I'm sorry wasn't it Anson Carter who was having bananas thrown at him while he was playing in Russia?

It should be noted the same thing happened to Kevin Weekes in Montreal.

 

[i am dave]

If Clarke was offered a Malkin - Carter trade, he would take it.
If Patrick was offered a Malkin - Carter trade, he wouldn't.

Bob Clarke would make another trade for a Russian? Mmmmmm, don't think so.

 

[Zine]

It should be noted the same thing happened to Kevin Weekes in Montreal.

Yep.

Glass houses.

 

[King Fish]

Bobby Ryan was on a stacked team. Carter was by himself basically. Dylan Hunter outscored Bobby Ryan - do you think he's a better player than Ryan?

Tom

Exactly!