Carter vs. Malkin

[Mothra]

Am I to assume AO was hurt worse than all of these players?

No....but what it looks like is you assumed he wasnt really injured at all

 

[Epsilon]

I think that will happen once they start playing in the NHL and we have more to talk about them then just what they did in one game.

Tom

There is plenty to talk about with regards to both players, in particular for Ovechkin his play in two real international tournaments (against NHL players, not kids). But since the WJCs are the be-all, end-all for some people, we still hear about this nonsense ad nauseum, just like how people still go on about Kovalchuk pumping his fist against Canada five years ago.

 

[Mothra]

He backed up his talk..unlike AO.

When you win 5 SC at that point in your career, you can talk all the smack you like.

When AO has those credentials, he can say whatever he wants.

But you said....

"Smart players don't give their opponents any extra motivation. That is a universal thing, no matter what language you speak."

I didnt see an exception in there......so what you really mean is....smart players dont give their opponents any extra motivation...unless they end up winning, then its ok

AO at that point had not had the opportunity to compete for the Cup...he was however at the top of the class at his level...he had won a championship at that level....and as a junior player, had bigtime credentials

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

most of these were well after the injury and they had been thoroughly examined by doctors......and they are quite the exception

how long of list could I come up with of guys who got injured and could not come back? I think even you will admit that the list will be a gabillion times longer.....and are you suggesting that all those players "let there teams down"? Or hat they were faking?

this also does not address the fact the way you originally made it sound was...he was faking it

leave with an "injury"

you never ansered the question....are you suggesting he was not injured and that he was faking?

No many of these players where injured in the game and told by doctors not to go back into the game..but they still did. In fact, a majority of them had much worse injuries than AO.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO. Which is fine, but it lends credence to the theory that you shouldn't run your mouth before a game.

He talks smack, then leaves with an injury. Just doesn't look good.

That is why players should be humble and let their game do the talking, not their mouths.

 

[thomasincanada]

There is plenty to talk about with regards to both players, in particular for Ovechkin his play in two real international tournaments (against NHL players, not kids). But since the WJCs are the be-all, end-all for some people, we still hear about this nonsense ad nauseum, just like how people still go on about Kovalchuk pumping his fist against Canada five years ago.

Are you referring to the Canadian Junior Team as "kids"?

Tom

 

[TORRUS]

Jiggy, you're a joke!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

But you said....

"Smart players don't give their opponents any extra motivation. That is a universal thing, no matter what language you speak."

I didnt see an exception in there......so what you really mean is....smart players dont give their opponents any extra motivation...unless they end up winning, then its ok

AO at that point had not had the opportunity to compete for the Cup...he was however at the top of the class at his level...he had won a championship at that level....and as a junior player, had bigtime credentials

First off Messier is an exception to the rule. When he ran his mouth and Kevin Stevens did it for the Pens agt. Boston, it just isn't very smart. It opens up a whole can of worms.

However, Messier won 5 cups, which is alot different than one WJC championship. I'm sorry.

For every Joe Namath, there are 10 players who should of just kept their mouths shut. 9 times out of 10, it doesn't do anything but hurt your team.

If AO runs his mouth before a big playoff game for the Caps, let's see how happy you will be about that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy, you're a joke!

Coming from a big Russian fan, can't say I'm shocked at your post.

 

[Epsilon]

Are you referring to the Canadian Junior Team as "kids"?

Tom

Last I checked they were all under 20 years old, so yeah. Certainly they arn't the same caliber of competition as the teams we saw in the 2004 World Cup and 2005 World Championships.

 

[Mothra]

No many of these players where injured in the game and told by doctors not to go back into the game..but they still did. In fact, a majority of them had much worse injuries than AO.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

why didnt he play for the next month or so....missing 20 or so games?

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO. Which is fine, but it lends credence to the theory that you shouldn't run your mouth before a game.

the only thing it lends credence to is that you dont think he was really injured....do you have some inside info or are you totally just guessing?

 

[sandels]

I've seen only a handful of games from both (Malkin in WJC and WC, Carter in WJC and a couple of Phantoms games) but have been extremely impressed by both of them.

Carter - Sundin comparison may not be that bad IMO. He has a world class shot and obviously natural scoring talent. In WJC he seemed to score at will. Great reach, excellent hockey sense.

To me it seemed Malkin and Ovechkin were pretty much the best players on Russia's WC team on those games that I saw, they played with more passion and drive than most of the vets and seemed to be constantly dangerous. Especially Ovechkin was just flying among the NHL players. I was surprised at Malkins skill level, he is a GREAT puckhandler and passer and he showed flashes of brilliance. Who would I compare him to? I don't know, maybe Yashin when he's fired up.

If I had to choose one, I'd probably go with Malkin. He is still a bit raw and I think Carter might be more consistent now (and maybe in future too) but his upside seems just phenomenal.

 

[thomasincanada]

Last I checked they were all under 20 years old, so yeah. Certainly they arn't the same caliber of competition as the teams we saw in the 2004 World Cup and 2005 World Championships.

I don't think of NHL ready guys like Crosby, Phaneuf, Carter, Ovechkin and Malkin (and a bunch of others) as kids, but to each their own.

FWIW - I bet the Canadian Junior Team could have beaten some of the teams in the World Hockey Championship.

 

[Epsilon]

I don't think of NHL ready guys like Crosby, Phaneuf, Carter, Ovechkin and Malkin (and a bunch of others) as kids, but to each is own.

FWIW - I bet the Canadian Junior Team could have beaten some of the teams in the World Hockey Championship.

Teams like Belarus and Austria perhaps, but that's about it. They would have gotten creamed by any of the teams with NHL-heavy rosters (i.e. the big 7).

 

[usiel]

No many of these players where injured in the game and told by doctors not to go back into the game..but they still did. In fact, a majority of them had much worse injuries than AO.

I believe he was injured, but could of played if he had to.

He just saw that his team was outmatched and called it a night IMHO. Which is fine, but it lends credence to the theory that you shouldn't run your mouth before a game.

He talks smack, then leaves with an injury. Just doesn't look good.

That is why players should be humble and let their game do the talking, not their mouths.

you are just too funny. Hey I bet you know who killed JFK and what really happened at Roswell, lmao. And hell you have a Trent Lott-like ability to diagnose a medical problem too!

Let me bow to your brilliance...

 

[Mothra]

If AO runs his mouth before a big playoff game for the Caps, let's see how happy you will be about that.

Well....if he says something along the same lines (people say the other team is better...we will try to prove that we are better, we have beaten them before)....I have no problem at all with it.

I would rather not see him taunt players.....just like you probably dont want to see EM score the 2nd empty netter of a game then skate right in front of the other teams bench taunting them

 

[ephecks]

They're both young, talented and cocky. Cockiness is good for the game...gives the reporters something to write about....besides... i'm sure a few years on two losing franchises will be more than enough humble pie.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

why didnt he play for the next month or so....missing 20 or so games?



the only thing it lends credence to is that you dont think he was really injured....do you have some inside info or are you totally just guessing?

Again, if the players I mentioned could play through their injuries, AO could of played through his if he wanted to.

Stevie Y had to have his whole knee reconstructed and played in 20+ playoff games.

If the game was closer, I'm willing to bet he would of been on the ice.

I believe he mailed it in because Team Canada had them seriously outmatched.

I'm not alone in that belief, as the same sentiment was spread throughout Canada.

Well....if he says something along the same lines (people say the other team is better...we will try to prove that we are better, we have beaten them before)....I have no problem at all with it.

I would rather not see him taunt players.....just like you probably dont want to see EM score the 2nd empty netter of a game then skate right in front of the other teams bench taunting them

I said already what EM did was uncool. The whole argument was based around Malkin's actions being worse than AO...and that is still BS.

 

[tom_servo]

Jiggy, your entire premise seems to be that Ovechkin was talking smack, and I just don't see it.

The taunting thing could be classified as such, but Malkin was also guilty of that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

you are just too funny. Hey I bet you know who killed JFK and what really happened at Roswell, lmao. And hell you have a Trent Lott-like ability to diagnose a medical problem too!

Let me bow to your brilliance...

A Caps fan...another shocker...

 

[sandels]

I believe he mailed it in because Team Canada had them seriously outmatched.

I'm not alone in that belief, as the same sentiment was spread throughout Canada.

Well why doesn't that surprise anyone...

This bashing is getting really old already.

Just curious, did any of you Canadian kids get to watch WC? If you did, how did Oveckin look like to you?

Edit: By WC I mean World Championships

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy, your entire premise seems to be that Ovechkin was talking smack, and I just don't see it.

The taunting thing could be classified as such, but Malkin was also guilty of that.

No my whole premise is that EM actions where no worse OR better than AO's actions in the US game.

The simple fact that can't be disuputed is that no matter how you took AO's comments..or anyone else for that matter..the Canadian media had a field day with them.

The Canadian players read these quotes and these articles...you think their coach didn't use this in the locker room?

 

[Mothra]

Again, if the players I mentioned could play through their injuries, AO could of played through his if he wanted to.

Stevie Y had to have his whole knee reconstructed and played in 20+ playoff games.

If the game was closer, I'm willing to bet he would of been on the ice.

I believe he mailed it in because Team Canada had them seriously outmatched.

ok....so again....any player that get injured in a big game "mails it in"? Thats a long list of players...starting with Gretzky

I'm not alone in that belief, as the same sentiment was spread throughout Canada.

a lot of people believe a lot of things......doesnt make them right. Curious, when you were giving Ovechkin his examination.....was there a long line of Canadian citizens waiting to do the same?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

ok....so again....any player that get injured in a big game "mails it in"? Thats a long list of players...starting with Gretzky




a lot of people believe a lot of things......doesnt make them right. Curious, when you were giving Ovechkin his examination.....was there a long line of Canadian citizens waiting to do the same?

So you can tell me 100% for sure he was so badly injured he couldn't get back on the ice? I guess you examined him as well?

You can say without a doubt he didn't look at the score and decide it wasn't worth hurting his shoulder more?

When a player talks smacks....gets injured in the game...and his team is getting destroyed and he doesn't come back...just makes one wonder.

I have dozens of Canadian friends that know I am a huge Russian hockey fan, and I found it dificult to argue with them that AO didn't mail it in.

 

[Mothra]

So you can tell me 100% for sure he wa sso badly injured he couldn't get back on the ice? I guess you examined him as well?

When a player talks smacks....gets injured in the game...and his team is getting destroyed and he doesn't come back...just makes one wonder.

I have dozens of Canadian friends that know I am a huge Russian hockey fan, and I found it dificult to argue with them that AO didn't mail it in.

I dont care what your Canadian fans thought....or how hard it was for you to disagree.....

as for the injury...I have no idea......I will look at what happened afterward and use that as part of what I feel.....he came out on the ice in a sling and very emotional, not the look of a quitter.....he missed a good chunk of time afterward in the RSL. Had he come back and not missed a game....or even a couple games...you would have some ammunition....but of course thats not what happened, and you dont.

 

[thomasincanada]

Teams like Belarus and Austria perhaps, but that's about it. They would have gotten creamed by any of the teams with NHL-heavy rosters (i.e. the big 7).

Beaten, undoubtedly, but quite frankly I'm not sure that USA team assembled could have creamed anybody. The World Championship was filled with so many B and C list NHL players - many of whom were mailing it in - that I won't be awe inspired by anyone's performance.

Let Malkin and Ovechkin score on Canada in the Olympics and I'll be significantly more impressed. I have no question of their ability, but I'll wait until they have proven it in the NHL before proclaiming their greatness ( unlike many others around here ).

Tom