OT: Carolina RailHawks to Rebrand, Push for MLS Bid

[tarheelhockey]

I will say I'm skeptical an MLS Raleigh team can draw 22k per game just because it's "major league".

I'm a bit skeptical about this as well. These would be the biggest sports crowds in the Triangle other than football Saturdays.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they drew crowds in that range for big games, but 17 times a year? I'm not so sure.

 

[Savant]

It would be cool I guess, and preferred to staying around NASL until it inevitably fails again. I still wish they would have bailed for the regional rivalries of USL rather than try to prop up an 8 team NASL.

I will say I'm skeptical an MLS Raleigh team can draw 22k per game just because it's "major league".

I think Raleigh would be more likely to draw bigger crowds than charlotte.

 

[Unsustainable]

I think Raleigh would be more likely to draw bigger crowds than charlotte.

Why?

 

[Oogie Boogie]

 

[Navin R Slavin]

iiiiiiiiinteresting

 

[tarheelhockey]

That's impressive.

 

[CandyCanes]

Awesome news for youth soccer here in Carolina. This shows you the Canes could be doing a lot more for youth hockey around here. Seems like outside of the Jr. Canes they don't do a whole lot getting involved in youth hockey.

 

[MinJaBen]

Awesome news for youth soccer here in Carolina. This shows you the Canes could be doing a lot more for youth hockey around here. Seems like outside of the Jr. Canes they don't do a whole lot getting involved in youth hockey.

Well, this situation is completely different. Castle and TFCA have been around for a long time and established themselves already as two of the three premier clubs in the triangle region. All NCFC had to do was buy/affiliate with them to get that done. In the Canes case, they probably had very little to work with when they got here and have to build it themselves from scratch. Completely different undertaking.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Awesome news for youth soccer here in Carolina. This shows you the Canes could be doing a lot more for youth hockey around here. Seems like outside of the Jr. Canes they don't do a whole lot getting involved in youth hockey.

To the Canes' credit, they just started a program called First Goal where they outfit 100 new youth players head-to-toe plus a whole season of practice/games for under $100. That's a pretty amazing way to bring people into playing the sport, especially for families who ordinarily couldn't afford it.

Clearly the local soccer network is more robust, which gives the Canes something to aspire to. Though I think the root issue is that the hockey development pipeline is a nightmare in general, especially compared to soccer.

 

[RodTheBawd]

To the Canes' credit, they just started a program called First Goal where they outfit 100 new youth players head-to-toe plus a whole season of practice/games for under $100. That's a pretty amazing way to bring people into playing the sport, especially for families who ordinarily couldn't afford it.

Wow, I hadn't heard about that, that's good stuff. Hockey is expensive as **** for any income level, a program like that puts the affordability on par with baseball and other sports. You'd almost think their marketing team would be promoting it a bit more...

 

[tarheelhockey]

Wow, I hadn't heard about that, that's good stuff. Hockey is expensive as **** for any income level, a program like that puts the affordability on par with baseball and other sports. You'd almost think their marketing team would be promoting it a bit more...

I think the issue for now is that there's so much demand that it fills up as soon as they open eligibility (like, people waiting by the phone type of situation). So there's really not much need to advertise it. I only heard about it through word of mouth from a parent at a rink, otherwise I'd have had no idea.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I think the issue for now is that there's so much demand that it fills up as soon as they open eligibility (like, people waiting by the phone type of situation). So there's really not much need to advertise it. I only heard about it through word of mouth from a parent at a rink, otherwise I'd have had no idea.

Exactly this. Promote something that you can't fulfill and the result will be disappointment and/or rage.

Of course, they could just spend more money on it! But I'd rather they spend money on, y'know, better hockey players.

 

[DaleCooper]

http://www.northcarolinafc.com/news...raleigh--releases-initial-stadium-renderings-

MAKE IT HAPPEN

I still think Raleigh is probably way too far down the priority list to come close to getting selected, but this is still a fun exercise.

Also they seem to be assuming that they can just demolish the Archdale Building, which is horrifyingly ugly but presumably they're gonna have to tell someone where they are going to move those 15 floors of government offices.

 

[Svechhammer]

http://www.northcarolinafc.com/news...raleigh--releases-initial-stadium-renderings-

MAKE IT HAPPEN

I still think Raleigh is probably way too far down the priority list to come close to getting selected, but this is still a fun exercise.

Also they seem to be assuming that they can just demolish the Archdale Building, which is horrifyingly ugly but presumably they're gonna have to tell someone where they are going to move those 15 floors of government offices.

Apparently the city and state have already said that building has exhausted its useful life, and the employees in there are going to be moving out shortly because the cost of renovation is too high. The biggest hurdle toward making this happen would be working with the state to potentially speed that timeline up a bit.

And don't sleep on NCFC. Malik is connected in the soccer world. He's been on the US Soccer board and he has close ties with many who are making this call within MLS. Plus, they've already said the entire stadium is going to be privately funded, and just need to work with the city to ensure the surrounding infrastructure can accommodate a stadium like this. This is a strong bid to secure a MLS franchise, and when you also consider the youth program and NWSL franchise that also fall under the NCFC umbrella, it becomes that much stronger. Top to bottom, Malik has been checking off every major box needed to secure this franchise, and this announcement was one of the biggest.

 

[DaleCooper]

I think it's a very strong bid and signals promise for the future, but I also think some other bids are going to have to have things go wrong before NC gets in the door. Cities seem to be dropping like flies, though, so I guess that's totally possible. There are a lot of pieces that need to start moving quickly to make this an actionable plan.

I hope you're right, though. I've always thought Raleigh would be perfect for MLS and this location would be incredible for the city and downtown. That area is also desperately in need of a refresh which this would provide (actual PEOPLE on the Halifax Mall? I can't imagine it).

 

[Guy]

Drawings look cool, but I'm skeptical they'll pull all this off.

 

[HisIceness]

Yeesh, really not digging the design of that stadium but at least they have a downtown location in mind.

If this happens, I wonder if Raleigh becomes to college soccer what Omaha is to college baseball. Didnt Cary play host to the NCAA soccer championship for years?

 

[What the Faulk]

I work in that area of downtown and I'm also skeptical that this will happen.

For one, they're within a stones throw of the legislature. They want to use Halifax mall for pregame stuff, but that's literally right outside the NCGA doors. How is that supposed to work on a weeknight game if they're still in session? 22k people can make some noise. And how do sell the rural members on new toys for Raleigh?

Second, where do people park? There are three parking decks there, two of which look like they're going to be demolished to make space. Seaboard Station isn't gonna love people parking there, and everywhere else is residential or office. There's no mass transit, and there's not a ton of room to add new facilities.

If they do, or if they keep the existing structures, this seems like a nightmare scenario for traffic. Peace going west, Salisbury going south, and whatever ends up happening to Capital are your main thoroughfares with only Capital really capable of handling that type of volume. All of the little capillaries exiting whatever designated parking areas there are will be at a standstill.

It's a nice thought, but there seem to be a ton of hurdles to clear.

 

[DaleCooper]

Downtown Raleigh has something like 30,000 parking spaces. It would be fine. If Charlotte can get 70,000 people in for Panthers games Raleigh can do 20,000 for soccer. There are equally tricky or trickier locations in the league where it works just fine. Gridded street networks function better for handling traffic anyway. Dispersing parking to various points in the area would cause less jam ups than 8,000 cars trying to exit the PNC Arena parking lots at the same time via 4 driveways. Plus you would have a decent population actually within walking distance of the stadium and by the time anything like this would be completed hopefully the results of the increases from the transit referendum would be evident, providing decent transit options for those who want it. You've already got the Downtown Circulator which would also be helpful. The other thing about urban venues is that people are less bunched together when they disperse after the event because some will choose to go to restaurants or bars after.

 

[What the Faulk]

Downtown Raleigh has something like 30,000 parking spaces. It would be fine. If Charlotte can get 70,000 people in for Panthers games Raleigh can do 20,000 for soccer. There are equally tricky or trickier locations in the league where it works just fine. Gridded street networks function better for handling traffic anyway. Dispersing parking to various points in the area would cause less jam ups than 8,000 cars trying to exit the PNC Arena parking lots at the same time via 4 driveways. Plus you would have a decent population actually within walking distance of the stadium and by the time anything like this would be completed hopefully the results of the increases from the transit referendum would be evident, providing decent transit options for those who want it. You've already got the Downtown Circulator which would also be helpful. The other thing about urban venues is that people are less bunched together when they disperse after the event because some will choose to go to restaurants or bars after.

I mean, I disagree on the traffic issue, but IIRC it's literally your job (or something similar?) so you'd probably know better than me.

As for parking, 30k would be sufficient if they were all available (people work late on weekdays/go to bars on weekends, etc) and closeish (not that downtown is big enough where crossing it is that big of a deal, but you know people), but I'd want to see a net increase in spaces available if you're going to undertake a project of this size, which, supposedly, will also include residences, office buildings, and commercial ventures.

I'm not against a downtown arena/stadium, and I know McCrory wanted to revitalize this specific area, I'm just not sure combining the two is a good fit.

 

[DaleCooper]

I suspect that if this were to happen you would see at least one new parking deck as part of the overall redevelopment (this is going to be a very costly and long-term project, which is part of why I'm fairly skeptical it's even remotely doable in time for this round of MLS expansion).

That said, the planners will also have to work really hard to publicize and incentivize other ways to get to the site. There's no question that an urban venue is a different animal than a suburban one like PNC Arena, and that has to be communicated to attendees. The mindset will have to be changed from the expectation of being able to drive up to the front door of the stadium. You might have to park elsewhere and walk, you might have to ride the circulator bus, you might want to park elsewhere near downtown and ride the (hopefully) expanded transit system or a shuttle bus setup for games. The trade-off for doing those things is that you get a much more vibrant venue in the heart of the city that feels more connected to the fabric of the place it represents and has endless things to do before and after games. It also means the stadium is in walking distance to something like 15,000 residents and 60,000 workers on weekdays. I wouldn't underestimate that element. PNC Arena is in walking distance to what, 1,000 people maybe? And it's not exactly a pleasant walk. A buddy of mine lives only a quarter-mile or so from PNC, but there's no sidewalk, so last time we drove.

 

[What the Faulk]

Well, Wade Park is getting developed pretty nicely and there's a walkway under Edwards Mill right up to the stadium. I believe there is free public parking there. Otherwise, all of those are good points. I want to be sold on this since I do work near there and have been to a bunch of NCFC games, I just don't know that I am, yet.

 

[Svechhammer]

It also means the stadium is in walking distance to something like 15,000 residents and 60,000 workers on weekdays. I wouldn't underestimate that element.

I also wouldn't underestimate that a vast majority of those 15k residents are the demographic the MLS is targeting, being a young fresh out of college crowd, which should help bring in a decent chunk of attendees per game that aren't looking for parking. And you have to figure, given the demographic, a significant portion would also utilize services like Uber and Lyft for each game.

I would suspect parking might not be the big issue you would normally think with a downtown stadium. That said, any other kind of event, like a concert, or the inevitable NCAA College Cup (final 4) could be problematic.

 

[Guy]

I went to the party earlier, and I got the impression that they did everything they possibly could do. They've been planning for this obviously, and outside of the MLS dude's "we'll see what happens" talk that was gonna happen regardless of if they shot a ****ing rocket to space in front of him, they couldn't have played any of it any better than they did.

 

[JakobN]

Hockey is more popular than Soccer here and our Hockey attendance has been awful recently. I'll support a team if it's in Charlotte or Raleigh, but I don't think we have the fan base. I hope I'm wrong and getting a team grows new fans of the sport. That being said, Raleigh has made a stronger bid than any of the cities looking for an expansion team.