Prospect Info: Carolina Hurricanes select C Elias Lindholm at #5

[Roboturner913]

If Dwyer is on our second line, please stab me in my face with a fork

Second line, third line, who cares, it's just a number. J. Staal has shown throughout his career he can still be productive with marginal linemates. Dwyer's defense and hustle makes him a pretty good fit there...a Ruutu-Staal-Dwyer line is tough to play against and can still pop in a few goals.

 

[Francis10]

Is everyone forgetting about Rask? Pretty sure he cracks the line up next year.

 

[tomdundo]

Is everyone forgetting about Rask? Pretty sure he cracks the line up next year.

I think it's not so much the fact that we're forgetting Rask rather than the fact that Dalpe should make the team next year and is eligible for waivers. Also, Palushaj is a pretty good fit, at least IMO, for a third line spot.

With JR's insistence that Lindholm is almost a lock to make the team, that leaves maybe two spots open on the roster if we have Westgarth in the pressbox and one of Bowman or Welsh scratched (or sent down to Charlotte in Welsh's case).

If we use the same lineup option I keep visualizing, we have one spot for either X or Y, and then a spot for Z. I think that Rask would be a good option to try out for spot X with Ruutu on Jordan's right wing. Then Palushaj or Dalpe can fit in on spot Z in a more offensively-oriented role with lesser quality defensive matchups if Rask does make it on the second line.

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
X/Ruutu-Staal-Ruutu/Y
Skinner-Lindholm-Z
Bowman/Welsh-Nash-Dwyer
Westgarth


The problem is that we have a logjam of players in Bowman/Welsh/Nash/Lindholm/Dalpe/Palushaj that SHOULD be taking up spots, but haven't proved that they CAN take those spots as of yet (though we obviously don't know what we have at the NHL level in Lindholm, and to a lesser extent with Palushaj).

 

[Jussijuice]

This is Dalpe's year. We all know it, but more importantly he has got to know it.

I like a kid line of Dalpe-Lindholm-Skinner. Skinner and Dalpe looked good together at the end of last year (one of the only guys I saw Skinner willing to pass to) and Lindholm is the pass first playmaker they need. Sheltered minutes against bottom pairing D and they are off to the races.

Start with
TEA (primary scoring)
Ruutu - J Staal - Palushaj (shutdown)
Skinner - Lindholm - Dalpe (secondary scoring)
Bowman - Nash - Dwyer (energy)
Westgarth

If Palushaj doesn't work out then replace his spot on the 2nd line with one of Bowman, Dwyer, or Rask (if playing well in Charlotte).

 

[What the Faulk]

Is everyone forgetting about Rask? Pretty sure he cracks the line up next year.

Why? He's only 10 games of AHL experience under his belt. He may indeed crack the lineup, but it's far from likely.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Is everyone forgetting about Rask? Pretty sure he cracks the line up next year.

Next year meaning 2014-15? I hope so.

I think this year (2013-14) is still a little early for him. Fine prospect, but he needs some seasoning.

 

[DaveG]

A year playing as one of the go to guys in Charlotte, after being one of the go to guys on the Hitmen, is probably a very good idea. Have him as the #1 center on a line with say Welsh and, who knows, Boychuk? And once he's ready for the callup, bring him up.

 

[Vagrant]

Let us not forget that Rask was demoted from the AHL back to the WHL after a 10 game trial last season. I understand the yada yada lockout business, but a demotion is a demotion. If you're blowing the doors off they'll find a way to keep you. This is Carolina, home of the rushed prospect. There was something there they didn't like that they probably will have to evaluate. My guess is skating and lower body strength. We'll see how he progresses, but a guy that is non-eligible for waivers has an uphill climb to make this team. I feel the same way about Murphy, though he's much closer than Rask.

 

[DaveG]

Given Murphy's performance in his 4 game audition here and his 8 games in Charlotte at the end of the season he'll be fine. Would love to see him get more seasoning in the AHL for a year but I feel that way about any prospect that isn't the second coming of Lindros from a freakish overall package standpoint.

 

[bleedgreen]

Let us not forget that Rask was demoted from the AHL back to the WHL after a 10 game trial last season. I understand the yada yada lockout business, but a demotion is a demotion. If you're blowing the doors off they'll find a way to keep you. This is Carolina, home of the rushed prospect. There was something there they didn't like that they probably will have to evaluate. My guess is skating and lower body strength. We'll see how he progresses, but a guy that is non-eligible for waivers has an uphill climb to make this team. I feel the same way about Murphy, though he's much closer than Rask.

i really think rask got sent down due to the lockout logjam they had in charlotte. they had guys like jenks, dolan, and shugg who are paid to be role players in the ahl sitting or maybe getting paid ahl money in the echl because rask is playing and have the easy option to send him down. they dont have to pay him in the whl either. he started slow but really came on as he went, and he was way outplaying welsh when they sent him down. i just think it was the easiest option.

that said, youre right about the non eligible for waivers issue being in his way. dalpe has to play up or we lose him, so rask is behind him going in. it would take a hell of a camp for rask to unseat the shiny new toy for the third line center spot and possibly put them in a situation where they would have to send lindholm home.

 

[Hornswaggle]

Let us not forget that Rask was demoted from the AHL back to the WHL after a 10 game trial last season..

Wouldn't keeping him past the 10 game mark have burned a year of his ELC? I can't see them doing that just to a short part of the season in Charlotte.

 

[Jussijuice]

Wouldn't keeping him past the 10 game mark have burned a year of his ELC? I can't see them doing that just to a short part of the season in Charlotte.

This was the biggest issue I see.

The argument "If he blew their socks off they would have made room" is true, he didn't play well enough to force their hand, but in a full year I think they keep him in Charlotte. I'm glad they didn't waste a valuable ELC year on a half-year in the AHL with near zero chance to play a meaningful role in the NHL even if he did play extremely well in Charlotte (which would be hard to prove in such a short time in the first place).

This year he will get the chance to show he's good enough for a promotion over the first 20-40 games and finish the year with 40-60 NHL games if he earns it. Build some chemistry and get some play time to adjust before the end-of-year Playoff push and hopefully playoffs. Wouldn't have been possible last year.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Wouldn't keeping him past the 10 game mark have burned a year of his ELC? I can't see them doing that just to a short part of the season in Charlotte.

No. His contract would have slid anyway due to his age, since these were AHL games. (The rule is actually 9 games, so if it was applicable here we would have burned the first year of his ELC by playing him in 10).

 

[Sasha Cares]

Rask will make this team

 

[Roboturner913]

I also believe Rask has a good shot at making the team, if he can play a wing spot. That's probably Dalpe's only advantage over Rask at the moment.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Brett Sutter can play C correct?

A fourth line of something like Palushaj//Sutter//Jared might have potential and we can sub in Westgarth on nites when he's needed.

Third line could be something like Dwyer//Lindholm//Rask. Let the Swedes work some magic together, while Dwyer holds everything together with solid defensive play and a bit of offensive flair.

 

[Jussijuice]

Brett Sutter can play C correct?

A fourth line of something like Palushaj//Sutter//Jared might have potential and we can sub in Westgarth on nites when he's needed.

Third line could be something like Dwyer//Lindholm//Rask. Let the Swedes work some magic together, while Dwyer holds everything together with solid defensive play and a bit of offensive flair.

Leaving out Nash to play Sutter, Jared, Palushaj, and Rask?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Problem with Nash (and Bowman) is that it's hard to find a fit for them. Neither of them have shown me to date that they are good enough for a 3rd line (at least on a competitive team) and if Muller wants a more "rough and tumble" 4th line, they aren't really suited to that also.

If Muller ends up with a 4th line that isn't overly physical, is ok defensively and might pot a few goals here and there, then maybe guys like Nash and Bowman might fit the bill. Nash is a natural center and was good positionally, but needs more strength IMO if he's going to be playing consistently in a 4th line role.

OTOH, Sutter and Jared might be more physical, but aren't very good hockey players, so not sure they are a solution either.

 

[AD Skinner]

Lindholm and Rask played together for Team Sweden in the WJC, didn't they? Seems to me they'd go into camp trying to play them together and see if they can bring out the best in each other. What if they rolled something like this:

Big Line
Ruutu-Jordan-Nash
Skinner-Lindholm-Rask
Palushaj or Jared-Sutter-Dwyer

I know Nash played well last year at center, but this may put him in an even better position to succeed. Dwyer had some success in that spot, and Nash is probably a more natural scorer than Dwyer, whose hustle could be a big help on the fourth line that is a big fat question mark no matter who we put there. Plus it lets the Swedes and Skinner pick up the scraps on bottom pairing defensemen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Unless Rask really lights it up in camp and Lindholm fails to impress, I can't see how Rask makes the squad (barring injuries)

7 top 9 forwards are givens: Tlusty, Staal, Semin, Skinner, Staal, Ruutu, Dwyer.
1 forward is very likely: Lindholm
Westgarth is probably the 13th forward

So unless there is a trade, that leaves 1 top 9 spot and 3 fourth line spot to be fought out between:

Dalpe (waiver eligible), Boychuk (waiver eligible), Rask, Welsh (1 way deal), Bowman (1 way deal), Nash (waiver eligible?), Sutter (waiver eligible) , Palushaj (waiver status?), and Jared Staal.

Since Rask would not be exposed to waivers to go to Charlotte and does not have a 1 way deal, he would have to significantly outperform all the other guys fighting for that 1 top 9 spot (as he won't be on the 4th line) in order to make the squad.

It may happen, but I don't think it's as likely as some seem to imply.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I know Nash played well last year at center, but this may put him in an even better position to succeed.

I'm not sure I agree with that. To me, Nash's play seems to be a more natural center and less suited to winger than most of these other guys.

Dwyer had some success in that spot, and Nash is probably a more natural scorer than Dwyer,

Not sure how you could conclude that. Nash's career high is 14 goals in the AHL and has never really shown great scoring ability, even in college. Dwyer was a better scorer in the AHL than Nash. Not saying either of them will light it up, but I wouldn't assume Nash is a more natural scorer, as he's never shown that.

 

[Jussijuice]

Problem with Nash (and Bowman) is that it's hard to find a fit for them. Neither of them have shown me to date that they are good enough for a 3rd line (at least on a competitive team) and if Muller wants a more "rough and tumble" 4th line, they aren't really suited to that also.

If Muller ends up with a 4th line that isn't overly physical, is ok defensively and might pot a few goals here and there, then maybe guys like Nash and Bowman might fit the bill. Nash is a natural center and was good positionally, but needs more strength IMO if he's going to be playing consistently in a 4th line role.

OTOH, Sutter and Jared might be more physical, but aren't very good hockey players, so not sure they are a solution either.

Everyone says Bowman isn't physical but I have always thought he played a pretty in-your-face physical game sprinkled with some nastiness plus he has some speed and possesses enough scoring ability to make it count. I'd hate to lose him or Nash to waivers, both have potential to be good 3rd liners.

Jared was very physical in his 2 games (can't comment on his AHL play, maybe a Checkers STH can value is in) but almost every other aspect of his game appears ECHL level. He needs a lot of work and dedication before he could carve out a Matt Martin type role.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

This Rask hype is insane...someone find me a player who put up Rask's numbers in the WHL who jumped straight to the NHL in a scoring role. You won't find any. You'll be hard pressed to find many who became top 6 forwards in the NHL ever. Kris Versteeg (played two full years in the AHL), Andrew Ladd (didn't up good numbers until his age 23 season), and who else?

Rask's skating is going to be a huge issue. He's going to take time. There will be Victor Rask trade proposals when he puts up .5PPG in the AHL this year. You can quote me on this later.

 

[Joe McGrath]

This Rask hype is insane...someone find me a player who put up Rask's numbers in the WHL who jumped straight to the NHL in a scoring role. You won't find any. You'll be hard pressed to find many who became top 6 forwards in the NHL ever. Kris Versteeg (played two full years in the AHL), Andrew Ladd (didn't up good numbers until his age 23 season), and who else?

Rask's skating is going to be a huge issue. He's going to take time. There will be Victor Rask trade proposals when he puts up .5PPG in the AHL this year. You can quote me on this later.

I don't think it should count if you're the one who proposes it...

But seriously, unless he and Murphy blow the doors off in training camp they should start in the AHL.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Everyone says Bowman isn't physical but I have always thought he played a pretty in-your-face physical game sprinkled with some nastiness plus he has some speed and possesses enough scoring ability to make it count. I'd hate to lose him or Nash to waivers, both have potential to be good 3rd liners.

In my mind, Bowman is a good complement to a couple of big, slow 4th line battleships. If he could produce an appreciable amount of offense I could see him moving up a line, but for now I think he's just fine as a role player. He has enough speed and tenacity to be a LaRose-type pest, and it would be even better if he developed into a PK option.

Given the competition and the position each of them plays, I think we can pretty well pencil in Bowman for a roster spot.