Player Discussion Carey Price - Why Always Me? Edition

[Koivu11]

He has looked like he doesn't give a **** ever since he got the contract he wanted.

 

[Habs Icing]

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Maybe i'm remebering it wrong but that team had a crap load of injuries.

 

[BLONG7]

He has looked like he doesn't give a **** ever since he got the contract he wanted.

Some strange stuff going on for sure..................probably signed the deal, before realizing Markov was kicked, and Radulov signing elsewhere...no way he would have thought the summer would have unfolded with a GM that had no plan to lose both of those guys...........
Health issues, terrible D, and sub par play for ahwile early in the season.............

He will have a long offseason, more so than anyone, other than the clown GM.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Maybe i'm remebering it wrong but that team had a crap load of injuries.

That was the roster, Franzen, Zetterberg and Sedin left the tournament due to injuries.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Niemi is from Finland, not Sweden.

So is Tukka Rask and Pekka Renne.

 

[Habs Icing]

Niemi is from Finland, not Sweden.

I never said he was from Sweden. I know he's Finnish.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

So is Tukka Rask and Pekka Renne.

 

[WickedPegJets]

I see this argument all the time but it's very misleading. Yes the backups to great goalies often have similar/better stats then then #1 goalie but they benefit hugely from playing against weaker teams. Put them in a starting role and their numbers will take a nose dive.

But your right that it makes no sense to spend a ton of money on defensive players and a then spend a ton on a goalie. With a superstar goalie you are better off cheaping out on the D. You probably still want that 2-way #1 D, but after that you don't need to spend too much. Get some guys who are good in transition but maybe otherwise struggle defensively and you should be fine.

I tend to disagree. NHL hockey like MLB have HCs and managers slot their No. 1 goalie and ace pitchers against weaker teams/pitchers to boost their star players' stats and to improve their chances of winning back to back games let's say or to play them in the first game of a double header.

 

[Habs Icing]

That was the roster, Franzen, Zetterberg and Sedin left the tournament due to injuries.

And if memory serves me Backstrom played with an injury. Anyway, my point was that Price really wasn't outstanding in that final. Team Canada's defence just killed the will to play in all opponents they faced.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Wasn't that the decimated Swedish team? I don't remember him pulling any miracles.

That Olympic Year, Finland's goalie Tukka Rask for some unknown reason didn't play in that semi-final game against Canada's Carey Price. Canada won that game. Then in the Final, Swedish forward Nicholas Backstrom was prevented from playing and Canada won the Gold Medal.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

That Olympic Year, Finland's goalie Tukka Rask for some unknown reason didn't play in that semi-final game against Canada's Carey Price. Canada won that game. Then in the Final, Swedish forward Nicholas Backstrom was prevented from playing and Canada won the Gold Medal.

You are right, it was some medicine he took and he was suspended.

 

[Habs Icing]

That Olympic Year, Finland's goalie Tukka Rask for some unknown reason didn't play in that semi-final game against Canada's Carey Price. Canada won that game. Then in the Final, Swedish forward Nicholas Backstrom was prevented from playing and Canada won the Gold Medal.

Thanks. I remember Price making two or three good saves and then going to sleep for the rest of the game. That defensive coverage Babcock implemented just stifled the opposing players.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I never said he was from Sweden. I know he's Finnish.

That’s my bad then. But as to your point to using Niemi as a starter, a .913 career save percentage is pretty average. There’s a pretty signigant difference between the goalies who are around .920. For instance, this awful season only managed to drop Price from .920 to .919. If we’re getting rid of Price, that’s fine. But you’d think we’d be taking back a goalie in a deal if it’s made and if it’s not a starting goalie we’re taking back, we should have a plan in place to get a younger replacement. We have some good goalies in our system, I’m still not sold on Lindgren being a starter. If his sole duty is to stop gap while we suck, then I guess that’s alright. But he’ll come down to earth at some point.

 

[Tyson]

Bergevin very rarely makes a sound decision! It’s uncanny

 

[Habs Icing]

That’s my bad then. But as to your point to using Niemi as a starter, a .913 career save percentage is pretty average. There’s a pretty signigant difference between the goalies who are around .920. For instance, this awful season only managed to drop Price from .920 to .919. If we’re getting rid of Price, that’s fine. But you’d think we’d be taking back a goalie in a deal if it’s made and if it’s not a starting goalie we’re taking back, we should have a plan in place to get a younger replacement. We have some good goalies in our system, I’m still not sold on Lindgren being a starter. If his sole duty is to stop gap while we suck, then I guess that’s alright. But he’ll come down to earth at some point.

You know what the difference is between a save % of 913 and 919? 6 more saves on a 1000 shots or 3 more saves on 500 shots or 1 more save on 166 shots..

 

[nhlfan9191]

You know what the difference is between a save % of 913 and 919? 6 more saves on a 1000 shots or 3 more saves on 500 shots or 1 more save on 166 shots..

I did not know that. I’m curious how you calculated that.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Some strange stuff going on for sure..................probably signed the deal, before realizing Markov was kicked, and Radulov signing elsewhere...no way he would have thought the summer would have unfolded with a GM that had no plan to lose both of those guys...........
Health issues, terrible D, and sub par play for ahwile early in the season.............

He will have a long offseason, more so than anyone, other than the clown GM.

Not re-signing Alex Rads was a bitter pill to swallow for Habs' fans. (It's like reuniting with a long lost sibling and then he moves away to Australia.) Yes, Bergy rescued him from obscurity and gave him another chance to play in the NHL and play he did! He energized his team every time he touched the puck and made surreal passes to Patches who stuffed the puck home. He could not be blamed for asking for a long term contract. He earned it in that one fabulous season.

Dallas was willing to match Bergy's offer, but being that Texas' taxes are way lower than in Quebec, Rads was not willing to take less net pay by giving Montreal a home discount. If he did, he would have been considered a martyr and that's fine with many Habs' followers. Too bad, he chose Dallas.

 

[Habs Icing]

I did not know that. I’m curious how you calculated that.

0.919 is really 919 divided by 1000. 0.913 is really 913 divided by 1000. What's the dif between 919 and 913? 6. 6 saves on 1000 shots.

Another way to look at it. On 1000 shots Price let in 81 goals. On his 1000 shots Niemi allowed 87 goals. If you assume an average of 35 shots a game 1000 shots represents about 29 games. That means every 29 games Niemi allows 6 more goals than Price. Works out to about one more goal every 5 games.

 

[dm1371]

At this point I don't even care who's in nets for us in the next few years. Just build a good team and we'll find someone to stop a few pucks.

 

[WickedPegJets]

You know what the difference is between a save % of 913 and 919? 6 more saves on a 1000 shots or 3 more saves on 500 shots or 1 more save on 166 shots..

The save percentage is not a good indicator of how good a goalie is. It's about making a save in key situations when your team is down by a goal or when tied. Hall of Famer Oilers' Grant Fuhr's save percentage wasn't that high yet he has 5 Stanley Cups. His teammates were offensive juggernauts and at times, he was left defensiveless yet he made the key saves in 5-4, 6-5, 4-3 wins.

 

[Habs Icing]

The save percentage is not a good indicator of how good a goalie is. It's about making a save in key situations when your team is down by a goal or when tied. Hall of Famer Oilers' Grant Fuhr's save percentage wasn't that high yet he has 5 Stanley Cups. His teammates were offensive juggernauts and at times, he was left defensiveless yet he made the key saves in 5-4, 6-5, 4-3 wins.

That sort of thinking got the Habs to draft Fucale.

 

[nhlfan9191]

0.919 is really 919 divided by 1000. 0.913 is really 913 divided by 1000. What's the dif between 919 and 913? 6. 6 saves on 1000 shots.

Another way to look at it. On 1000 shots Price let in 81 goals. On his 1000 shots Niemi allowed 87 goals. If you assume an average of 35 shots a game 1000 shots represents about 29 games. That means every 29 games Niemi allows 6 more goals than Price. Works out to one more goal every almost 5 games.

I’m by no means very savy when it comes to Math. I picked a career where I could stay away from math as much as possible. If your numbers hold up, which I’m not saying they don’t, that’s actually pretty interesting.

 

[Habs Icing]

I’m by no means very savy when it comes to Math. I picked a career where I could stay away from math as much as possible. If your numbers hold up, which I’m not saying they don’t, that’s actually pretty interesting.

Oh the numbers work out trust me but we're looking at overall average over the span of a career. I wouldn't go just on those numbers.I'm not an analytics guy. Niemi - and Price for that matter - are not clockwork that churned out the same numbers year in and year out. Their careers have had ups and downs. We're just looking at an average which isn't really the reality. It's just an average.

That's one factor. Another is what WickedPegJets said.

Another point is that one goalie will have a crap game every 10 games. Lets in 6 or 7 goals but then plays stellar the next 9 games. The average will be affected by that 6-7 goal game.

Another point - and being Hab fans we should know this - is players rise to the occasion. There are players (goalies) that will play better when bigger stakes are involved. Claude Lemieux and Patrick Roy were such players. Patches is definitely not and it may appear that Price is another that isn't. I suspect Niemi is such a player - raises his game when the stakes are higher.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Oh the numbers work out trust me but we're looking at overall average over the span of a career. I wouldn't go just on those numbers.I'm not an analytics guy. Niemi - and Price for that matter - are not clock work that churned out the same numbers year in and year out. His career has had ups and down. We're just looking at an average which isn't really the reality. It's just an average.

That's one factor. Another is what WickedPegJets said.

Another point is that one goalie will have a crap game every 10 games. Lets in 6 or 7 goals but then plays stellar the next 9 games. The average will be affected by that 6-7 goal game.

Another point - and begin Hab fans we should know this - is players rise to the occasion. There are players (goalies) that will play better when bigger stakes are involved. Claude Lemieux and Patrick Roy were suck players. Patchs is definitely not and it may appear that Price isn't also.

Oh, I’m absolutely aware it’s just an average but it’s amazing that the difference is that insignigant from a statistical standpoint even if we’re ignoring everything else.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Oh, I’m absolutely aware it’s just an average but it’s amazing that the difference is that insignigant from a statistical standpoint even if we’re ignoring everything else.

The Dominator (Hasek) was an anomaly. Not only did he have a career high save percertage, he was very consistent year in and year out.