Confirmed with Link: CAR/ARIZ: Marcus Kruger (10% retained by CAR), 2018 3rd for Jordan Martinook, 2018 4th

Coyotedroppings

Registered User
Jul 16, 2017
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Could he be one of the guys RT was talking about not being in shape. Maybe Crouse thought he had a position locked up?

I can still see him sucking wind at camp last season and while there was some improvement he seemed to struggle when I saw him in Tucson as well. Can't speak as to his mindset.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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Crouse tends to lack endurance imo and he doesn't seem capable of physically acquiring the endurance needed for this system. He's got descent speed, but peters out easily, I've honestly never seen an otherwise in shape guy get winded as quickly. Obviously hoping I'm wrong.

Interesting point. Maybe he’s too much in gym shape and not enough in hockey shape.

I remember Emanuel Steward (famous boxing trainer) criticizing a very muscular looking fighter for thinking he’s strong and his big biceps, etc. Steward was talking about having to undo body building habits and completely remold the bodies of his fighters who were ready for muscle beach but not the ring. That excess muscle bulk not required for fighting just slowed guys down and sapped their energy.

Then again, Rod Brind’Amour was a pretty good player. Haha. :)
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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Interesting point. Maybe he’s too much in gym shape and not enough in hockey shape.

I remember Emanuel Steward (famous boxing trainer) criticizing a very muscular looking fighter for thinking he’s strong and his big biceps, etc. Steward was talking about having to undo body building habits and completely remold the bodies of his fighters who were ready for muscle beach but not the ring. That excess muscle bulk not required for fighting just slowed guys down and sapped their energy.

Then again, Rod Brind’Amour was a pretty good player. Haha. :)
Wasn't the knock on Tommy Hearns his endurance?
 

rt

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Wasn't the knock on Tommy Hearns his endurance?
That’s actually kind of a counterpoint. Hagler would likely be a better example of gym build versus Hearns being more of a ring build. That probably has more to do with the notable height discrepancy, however. Endurance in their shared weight class might not be the correct word. More about durability. Hagler had an iron chin and Hearns felt punches to the jaw in a more human way. I think as Hearns packed on massive amounts of weight and moved up class by class he had endurance issues.

I was born in 1985. So this is all my dad’s stories, ESPN Classic, and antique issues of the Ring Magazine.

I grew up in a house where boxing was king. My dad threw in the towel on the sport when it became clear that Floyd and Manny weren’t going to fight at heir peaks. He passed away soon after and none of us went back to the sport.
 

Kaibur

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Jan 23, 2009
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I'm a little confused why they made this trade now. The timeline seems strange to me. Why not wait until draft day?

If you want Kruger to make OEL and/or Hammer happy and to make re-signing them easier, why not snag Kruger off waivers late in the season or scoop him up for a late pick (like the 5th rounder he was originally acquired for).

If Martinook was the issue, why didn't they dump him at the deadline when he would have had a little more value?

And if you're not re-signing Richardson, he should have been gone at the deadline. That whole song and dance from Richardson about free agency looks a little dumb now. They likely could have gotten a 3rd for him.

It also makes me wonder how tight our budget was/is going to be.
 

rt

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May 13, 2004
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I'm a little confused why they made this trade now. The timeline seems strange to me. Why not wait until draft day?

If you want Kruger to make OEL and/or Hammer happy and to make re-signing them easier, why not snag Kruger off waivers late in the season or scoop him up for a late pick (like the 5th rounder he was originally acquired for).

If Martinook was the issue, why didn't they dump him at the deadline when he would have had a little more value?

And if you're not re-signing Richardson, he should have been gone at the deadline. That whole song and dance from Richardson about free agency looks a little dumb now. They likely could have gotten a 3rd for him.

It also makes me wonder how tight our budget was/is going to be.
I think the easy answer is that the 4th line was playing well and the team was winning a lot. Now the season is over and it’s time to re-evaluate things. Fine with me.
 

lanky

Feeling Spicy
Jun 23, 2007
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We've been rich in left shooting wingers for a long time. It's becoming clear that most of them have little trade value. Rieder and Martinook are both valuable players to have on the ice in 3rd and 4th line roles, respectively. They both returned close to nothing by trade. Somehow we fleeced the Panthers (again) when we traded them McGinn but I don't think that's a reflection of the market. Left shooting wingers are simply the least valuable type of player in the league, regardless of team need.
 

rt

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May 13, 2004
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We've been rich in left shooting wingers for a long time. It's becoming clear that most of them have little trade value. Rieder and Martinook are both valuable players to have on the ice in 3rd and 4th line roles, respectively. They both returned close to nothing by trade. Somehow we fleeced the Panthers (again) when we traded them McGinn but I don't think that's a reflection of the market. Left shooting wingers are simply the least valuable type of player in the league, regardless of team need.
Makes me worry about Tkachuk in the top five.
 

hbk

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I'm a little confused why they made this trade now. The timeline seems strange to me. Why not wait until draft day?

If you want Kruger to make OEL and/or Hammer happy and to make re-signing them easier, why not snag Kruger off waivers late in the season or scoop him up for a late pick (like the 5th rounder he was originally acquired for).

If Martinook was the issue, why didn't they dump him at the deadline when he would have had a little more value?

And if you're not re-signing Richardson, he should have been gone at the deadline. That whole song and dance from Richardson about free agency looks a little dumb now. They likely could have gotten a 3rd for him.

It also makes me wonder how tight our budget was/is going to be.
Waddell is trying to move out of the acting GM role to a full time gig. The he fact that he was able to get a roster player and saving $ for a guy who they couldn't give away for free (and they had to banish to the minors) helps his case. Chayka did him a favor and let's be honest it's not like this was going to expand into a blockbuster deal.
 

IPreferPi

A Nonny Mouse
Jun 22, 2012
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We've been rich in left shooting wingers for a long time. It's becoming clear that most of them have little trade value. Rieder and Martinook are both valuable players to have on the ice in 3rd and 4th line roles, respectively. They both returned close to nothing by trade. Somehow we fleeced the Panthers (again) when we traded them McGinn but I don't think that's a reflection of the market. Left shooting wingers are simply the least valuable type of player in the league, regardless of team need.

Which is probably a good deal of the reason why Taylor "Hart Finalist" Hall only returned a #3 shutdown RHD who generates minimal offense in trade.
 

Kaibur

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
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Phoenix, AZ
I think all of these make sense.

We finally started winning and the 4th line was part of the turn around, so no reason to rock the boat during a development year.

We have too many left-handed wingers. I think we wanted to use a couple of those guys to take advantage of the expansion situation, but we weren't able to leverage anyone so we got caught a little bit and had to eat some trade value to make moves.

Chayka's trying to build some bridges and Waddell wanted to pull the trigger now rather than later when he might not be in charge.

I'm not against the move per se. I just think there was a way to accomplish the same thing while gaining a few more assets, but it's just nitpicking really.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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We finally started winning and the 4th line was part of the turn around,

I never thought was they were doing was sustainable. I think they started to level off about 2 weeks before the end of the season. I can't think of a successful team that runs an old school 4th line shut down unit in this way over the long haul in today's league.
Didn't expect Martinook to be the one to go necessarily though, I figured the line would get broken up either by Cousins getting promoted or Richardson not returning.
 
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cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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I'm a little confused why they made this trade now. The timeline seems strange to me. Why not wait until draft day?

If you want Kruger to make OEL and/or Hammer happy and to make re-signing them easier, why not snag Kruger off waivers late in the season or scoop him up for a late pick (like the 5th rounder he was originally acquired for).

If Martinook was the issue, why didn't they dump him at the deadline when he would have had a little more value?

And if you're not re-signing Richardson, he should have been gone at the deadline. That whole song and dance from Richardson about free agency looks a little dumb now. They likely could have gotten a 3rd for him.

It also makes me wonder how tight our budget was/is going to be.
If Richardson signs elsewhere, and Strome doesn't work out, or we have an injury, we would be short on C's. Maybe Chayka see's something in Kruger he likes more then most too.
 
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cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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Makes me worry about Tkachuk in the top five.
I agree, left shot, brother just made an impact, last name, might be over rated to me. I would take Walstrom and Hughes for sure over Tkachuk.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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No, I just made that up - OF COURSE really - what the hell man?

I Doan recall you ever saying you went to camp - what gives?
I wasn't tying to be a smart ass, but I truly never saw Crouse look like he was gassed. At camp I thought he looked fine.
 

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