Post-Game Talk: Caps vs NBCSNd

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Ridley Simon

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If this team is not a real cup contender at the deadline, then they should sell whoever isn't going to be here next season.

LOL, according to who? You? What measuring stick is going to tell you/us/the team/the NHL that ANY team is a "real cup contender"?

Your scorn for the past 2 years failures are clouding your thinking. The history of Pro Sports is littered with teams that had high expectations....failed...and then with a "lesser" team beat expectations and wins it all. Thats sports man.

Your thinking is absolutely flawed. Poop all over it, candidly.
 
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Ridley Simon

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This team isn't built to win this next year or the year after. We have an outside chance of winning (p>

Backlund is one of the best defensive centers in the league and Calgary needs him badly. How do you plan on getting him?

How is this team not built to win this year? It's not as deep as last years, but its younger and arguably more dynamic. Djoos + Bowey maybe isnt equal to Schmidt + Shattenkirk right now. But by seasons end? Djoos + Bowey are certainly better than Alzner was at the end. They also are a lot more "connected" to the team and the goals than Shattenkirk was. All in all, the D may be every bit as good, and possibly better...especially if Carlson's renaissance continues and he becomes a Letang/Keith/Burns type. He could. Bowey and Djoos may also have a confidence gear that prevents them from making the bonehead type plays that Caps D *always* seems to make for the Caps in the playoffs.

Wilson is emerging in a manner that we couldnt have expected. Williams and Johansson's departures may have spurred that. He could bring a top line element that the past 2 years teams did not have. Oshie is now a crazy good 2RW. Vrana adds something we havent seen since vintage Semin....a sniper quality. Burakovsky is the X factor...and could raise Eller's line to a true scoring line. DSP brings a lot to the 4th line....

Stephenson and Boyd are young, fast, smart, and hungry. Looks a little like Sheary/Rust.

I dunno what you are seeing, but this team is ABSOLUTELY built to be a winner. Now. Sure, they aren't the SureFire President's Cup Trophy shoe in that the last 2 years teams were, but that's a blessing for me. The changes have added some things that those teams missed (youth and fire), and allowed Carlson and Wilson to potentially become game changers.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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How is this team not built to win this year? It's not as deep as last years, but its younger and arguably more dynamic. Djoos + Bowey maybe isnt equal to Schmidt + Shattenkirk right now. But by seasons end? Djoos + Bowey are certainly better than Alzner was at the end. They also are a lot more "connected" to the team and the goals than Shattenkirk was. All in all, the D may be every bit as good, and possibly better...especially if Carlson's renaissance continues and he becomes a Letang/Keith/Burns type. He could. Bowey and Djoos may also have a confidence gear that prevents them from making the bonehead type plays that Caps D *always* seems to make for the Caps in the playoffs.

Wilson is emerging in a manner that we couldnt have expected. Williams and Johansson's departures may have spurred that. He could bring a top line element that the past 2 years teams did not have. Oshie is now a crazy good 2RW. Vrana adds something we havent seen since vintage Semin....a sniper quality. Burakovsky is the X factor...and could raise Eller's line to a true scoring line. DSP brings a lot to the 4th line....

Stephenson and Boyd are young, fast, smart, and hungry. Looks a little like Sheary/Rust.

I dunno what you are seeing, but this team is ABSOLUTELY built to be a winner. Now. Sure, they aren't the SureFire President's Cup Trophy shoe in that the last 2 years teams were, but that's a blessing for me. The changes have added some things that those teams missed (youth and fire), and allowed Carlson and Wilson to potentially become game changers.

It's a typo, I meant to say the team isn't built to win next year, as in they are built to win this year. We're saying the same thing. I'm missing a paragraph in my post.
 

brachyrynchos

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^^ As a GM, you should measure the team each year, or 2 if you count when he felt it was a win now window. And I don't think that this year's roster is better than the previous two, and I don't think that somehow, after 24 years, Trotz is gonna get it right this time.
If there was a way to keep Carlson, it would be great, but salary and term would be a real anchor down the road, and keeping him, and/or Eller I just don't see fitting from a financial standpoint. Around $13.2M is what comes of the books this summer, it seems like alot. The RFAs need to be signed, Wilson, Grubauer, and Bowey are the main ones, and next year Bura, Vrana and Djoos and Stephenson, and they will all get more money. None of this should be a surprie to BMac, Then obviously the impending UFAs and what term and annual hit they would require re-signing them, and looking at in house replacements, free agents, and trades, and deciding what to do.
Late picks are better than nothing. Late picks in the '19 draft would be fine.
 

Ridley Simon

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^^ As a GM, you should measure the team each year, or 2 if you count when he felt it was a win now window. And I don't think that this year's roster is better than the previous two, and I don't think that somehow, after 24 years, Trotz is gonna get it right this time.
If there was a way to keep Carlson, it would be great, but salary and term would be a real anchor down the road, and keeping him, and/or Eller I just don't see fitting from a financial standpoint. Around $13.2M is what comes of the books this summer, it seems like alot. The RFAs need to be signed, Wilson, Grubauer, and Bowey are the main ones, and next year Bura, Vrana and Djoos and Stephenson, and they will all get more money. None of this should be a surprie to BMac, Then obviously the impending UFAs and what term and annual hit they would require re-signing them, and looking at in house replacements, free agents, and trades, and deciding what to do.
Late picks are better than nothing. Late picks in the '19 draft would be fine.

Then they should just trade Niskanen (for Maacoshark), Holtby (for MR Gone), and Ovechkin and Backstrom as well (for you, I guess?) if they dont think they can win this year or next, and are too scared of upcoming RFA's and UFA's.
 

brachyrynchos

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Ridley Simon post: 138779375 said:
LOL, according to who? You? What measuring stick is going to tell you/us/the team/the NHL that ANY team is a "real cup contender"?

Your scorn for the past 2 years failures are clouding your thinking. The history of Pro Sports is littered with teams that had high expectations....failed...and then with a "lesser" team beat expectations and wins it all. Thats sports man.

Your thinking is absolutely flawed. Poop all over it, candidly.
What makes this year's team better than the previous two? Tell me how Trotz has adjusted, how the depth or leadership is better. Have there been improvements? Yes, Infusion and trust of younger players, esp. Bowey and Djoos. Vrana and Wilson getting better. I still just don't see what other improvements this team has made to go farther than the last 2, what makes this year any different.
 

twabby

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-They might not have to play Pittsburgh this year.
-Also Holtby probably won't have his worst stretch of playoff goaltending in his career.
-Ovechkin and Kuznetsov are likely even better this season, along with Vrana, Burakovsky, Wilson, Orlov and Carlson assuming he remains healthy.
-There is a huge element of luck, maybe they get lucky this postseason
 

txpd

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it would be a great sports news story. BMac and Dreger would have a field day with an NHL team sitting in a 2 or 3 seed throwing in the towel at the trade deadline. The idea has some value
 

txpd

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What makes this year's team better than the previous two? Tell me how Trotz has adjusted, how the depth or leadership is better. Have there been improvements? Yes, Infusion and trust of younger players, esp. Bowey and Djoos. Vrana and Wilson getting better. I still just don't see what other improvements this team has made to go farther than the last 2, what makes this year any different.

Who said it was better? Very likely the Caps will never again have a team as good as that team. Who says they have to be better to go further in the playoffs? The Caps made the finals with a team that was a 4 seed. They were not contenders.

You are terribly mistaken if you think the Caps lost in the 2nd round the last 3 seasons because the team wasn't good enough. Of the 3 teams the first Trotz team was the least and they were less than 2 minutes from the ECF when Holtby gave up a goof and killed them.
 

brachyrynchos

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Then they should just trade Niskanen (for Maacoshark), Holtby (for MR Gone), and Ovechkin and Backstrom as well (for you, I guess?) if they dont think they can win this year or next, and are too scared of RFA's and UFA's.
No, they should for once give Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Niskanen, and this team a better chance, with a better coach, with a better supporting cast. That means taking a step back, then building momentum going forward. Shoot towards the next two years before those guys contracts end instead of wasting time on this year.
 

Ridley Simon

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What makes this year's team better than the previous two? Tell me how Trotz has adjusted, how the depth or leadership is better. Have there been improvements? Yes, Infusion and trust of younger players, esp. Bowey and Djoos. Vrana and Wilson getting better. I still just don't see what other improvements this team has made to go farther than the last 2, what makes this year any different.

Carlson has improved a lot. Stephenson adds speed.

As twabby mentioned, Pittsburgh could get beat, or we end up in the Atlantic. There are literally dozens of possibilities (and Holtby could bounce back to his pre 2015 playoff form).

The only team that proved it could beat the Caps the past 2 years was Pittsburgh. The way the Metro is going, 2 of New Jersey, NYR, NYI, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Columbus will either miss the playoffs or end up playing in the Atlantic. There is a lot of options here. Caps could miss Pitts in a lot of scenarios.

Not sure what else you need to hear, with this. You hate Trotz, and you are jaded by their previous losses. Thats fine, I get it. But at least own it.
 

Ridley Simon

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No, they should for once give Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Niskanen, and this team a better chance, with a better coach, with a better supporting cast. That means taking a step back, then building momentum going forward. Shoot towards the next two years before those guys contracts end instead of wasting time on this year.

Your assumptions are ...again...flawed. Not sure what you think all these FA's will bring back (only real value is Carlson and Eller). And whatever is brought back wont be NHL ready, and you also will have 2 massive holes in the roster...to be filled by what? new FA's?

You want a better supporting cast, yet you want to jettison 2 of the key cogs on the team? Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth, man.
 

txpd

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if this team appears to be out of the playoffs, they will sell. Trotz will be gone or going. But if they are in or solidly in the playoffs, they are going to do all they can to win. They have the best goal scorer in the league. They have one of the top 3 goalies in the league. They have two all star caliber centers and two solid bottom 6 centers. There is no chance that they give up.
 

brachyrynchos

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Getting something for what you don't plan on keeping is better than getting nothing.
And those two key cogs are going to cost too much to keep.
Stephenson and Boyd may fill in the hole at center, but I think giving them time there now, would help give BMac a better idea if exploring other options via trade or free agency is the way to go. And having the assets and space to do so, makes for more options. As for replacing Carlson, that's tough because even though Orpik, Orlov, Niskanen, Bowey, and Djoos are signed for next year, losing Carlson leaves a big void, he's been a bargain at $3.97M, but from what I've been hearing, he could get $7M this summer, that's too much for this team. Would he take a discount to stay, I don't know, maybe BMac does. Do I think the guys under contract are capable of increased roles next year? Yes. Do I think some of the d prospects can fill in the bottom 6? Yes. And when the opportunity to upgrade comes along, they should follow through if necessary.
 

AtNightWeFly

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Jun 1, 2014
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if this team appears to be out of the playoffs, they will sell. Trotz will be gone or going. But if they are in or solidly in the playoffs, they are going to do all they can to win. They have the best goal scorer in the league. They have one of the top 3 goalies in the league. They have two all star caliber centers and two solid bottom 6 centers. There is no chance that they give up.

At the beginning of the year I was all like "f*** it just tank for Dahlin/Svechnikov" but now they seem to be getting better and better so I calmed down alot and so did many other nervous Caps fans. Being perfect hasn't done it so maybe being imperfect and hungrier will. The Blackhawks(god they are awful now) showed me last night that our window is not closed it just has different shutters.
 
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brachyrynchos

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Carlson has improved a lot. Stephenson adds speed.

As twabby mentioned, Pittsburgh could get beat, or we end up in the Atlantic. There are literally dozens of possibilities (and Holtby could bounce back to his pre 2015 playoff form).

The only team that proved it could beat the Caps the past 2 years was Pittsburgh. The way the Metro is going, 2 of New Jersey, NYR, NYI, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Columbus will either miss the playoffs or end up playing in the Atlantic. There is a lot of options here. Caps could miss Pitts in a lot of scenarios.

Not sure what else you need to hear, with this. You hate Trotz, and you are jaded by their previous losses. Thats fine, I get it. But at least own it.
I do own it.
Pittsburgh still scares me, Rangers and Columbus could beat us. Isles, I'm not worried about, Shero wants to win, and is always looking to improve NJ. In the Atlantic, Tampa leads the way. Toronto is close, Boston a darkhorse.
Do I hate Trotz? No, I don't hate anybody. Do I think he will lead this team to a cup? No.
I still don't see what gives this team a better chance, or how they think they've learned to get over the hump, collectively.
 
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AtNightWeFly

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I do own it.
Pittsburgh still scares me, Rangers and Columbus could beat us. Isles, I'm not worried about, Shero wants to win, and is always looking to improve his team. In the Atlantic, Tampa leads the way. Toronto is close, Boston a darkhorse.
Do I hate Trotz? No, I don't hate anybody. Do I think he will lead this team to a cup? No.
I still don't see what gives this team a better chance, or how they think they've learned to get over the hump, collectively.

Alls we saying' is its way too early to start this rebuild you so desperately want. We have what we have and its actually turning the season around. Sounds like you just want the team to dismantle itself to see if that's a better option.
Barry is gone after this year anyways so you (and I) will have to wait 5 more months.
 

txpd

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Getting something for what you don't plan on keeping is better than getting nothing.
And those two key cogs are going to cost too much to keep.
Stephenson and Boyd may fill in the hole at center, but I think giving them time there now, would help give BMac a better idea if exploring other options via trade or free agency is the way to go. And having the assets and space to do so, makes for more options. As for replacing Carlson, that's tough because even though Orpik, Orlov, Niskanen, Bowey, and Djoos are signed for next year, losing Carlson leaves a big void, he's been a bargain at $3.97M, but from what I've been hearing, he could get $7M this summer, that's too much for this team. Would he take a discount to stay, I don't know, maybe BMac does. Do I think the guys under contract are capable of increased roles next year? Yes. Do I think some of the d prospects can fill in the bottom 6? Yes. And when the opportunity to upgrade comes along, they should follow through if necessary.

you don't lose a player for nothing. you get their play down the stretch and in the playoffs. Its why teams make deadline deals for rentals. You are saying you would never trade for a rental?

And you seem to be saying you would go with a top 6 defense that included Djoos and Bowey AND two of the prospects. That's nuts
 
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brachyrynchos

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^ I know it's still early, and the next few months determines where this team is. Caps still have problems clearing the puck out, and strong forechecking teams exploit that. Playing a more complete game for 60 minutes, generating offense and scoring depth all still need improvement. These are some of the things they need to work on.
I just want BMac to be realistic about this team at the deadline. If that means selling, great. If it means buying, then cap space needs to be freed up, and giving up prospects or picks in an already weak farm would need consideration, would it be worth it? Depends on where this team is, and not just in the standings, either, they need to show that they have what it takes, and I haven't seen enough of that yet.
Rebuild, no, just improving the depth with options that fit under the cap.
 

brachyrynchos

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If you can afford rentals, and believe they will increase your chances of winning, you do it. I'm in favor of rentals when the team has a realistic chance, and Shattenkirk was worth it, the other deadline deals have been overpayments for garbage.
The absence of Carlson would have to be filled. The rest of the d will be fine next season, upgrade with rentals near the deadline or via trade (like how the Isles got Boychuk and Leddy from BOS & CHI, they couldn't keep them, and could only take picks and prospects, like how we had to move Mojo). see what we have before rushing to fill in the spots right away.
 

txpd

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Most teams have weaknesses. The Caps are using two rookies on defense and between them and the opposing team's good players they can get pinned. What did Doughty say about playing against Backstrom Ov and Willy? He was worn out because he spent all night against that line in his own end. All kinds of stuff needs improved. But that's true of all the teams. You saw Tampa Bay. They may be ahead of the Caps and Pens in the standings but haven't proved it on the ice. They played both teams in a back to back where they were destroyed.

I said pre season that the Caps had a shot to be the 1 seed in the east and or win their division again. I see nothing about them so far that tells me otherwise. They are still the Caps. Which means the playoffs are different, but if your plan is to manage assets rather than try to win if you aren't a legit cup contender, they will never be legit
 

txpd

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If you can afford rentals, and believe they will increase your chances of winning, you do it. I'm in favor of rentals when the team has a realistic chance, and Shattenkirk was worth it, the other deadline deals have been overpayments for garbage.
The absence of Carlson would have to be filled. The rest of the d will be fine next season, upgrade with rentals near the deadline or via trade (like how the Isles got Boychuk and Leddy from BOS & CHI, they couldn't keep them, and could only take picks and prospects, like how we had to move Mojo). see what we have before rushing to fill in the spots right away.

you do realize that Boychuk and Leddy were odd situations and they come up rarely. you sure as hell cant count on them.
 

maacoshark

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How is this team not built to win this year? It's not as deep as last years, but its younger and arguably more dynamic. Djoos + Bowey maybe isnt equal to Schmidt + Shattenkirk right now. But by seasons end? Djoos + Bowey are certainly better than Alzner was at the end. They also are a lot more "connected" to the team and the goals than Shattenkirk was. All in all, the D may be every bit as good, and possibly better...especially if Carlson's renaissance continues and he becomes a Letang/Keith/Burns type. He could. Bowey and Djoos may also have a confidence gear that prevents them from making the bonehead type plays that Caps D *always* seems to make for the Caps in the playoffs.

Wilson is emerging in a manner that we couldnt have expected. Williams and Johansson's departures may have spurred that. He could bring a top line element that the past 2 years teams did not have. Oshie is now a crazy good 2RW. Vrana adds something we havent seen since vintage Semin....a sniper quality. Burakovsky is the X factor...and could raise Eller's line to a true scoring line. DSP brings a lot to the 4th line....

Stephenson and Boyd are young, fast, smart, and hungry. Looks a little like Sheary/Rust.

I dunno what you are seeing, but this team is ABSOLUTELY built to be a winner. Now. Sure, they aren't the SureFire President's Cup Trophy shoe in that the last 2 years teams were, but that's a blessing for me. The changes have added some things that those teams missed (youth and fire), and allowed Carlson and Wilson to potentially become game changers.
You mention Shattenkirk and Schmidt being better than Djoos and Bowey. I don't agree with that. Shattenkirk wasn't here very long and had a negative impact on the team. And Schmidt really isn't very far ahead of Djoos and Bowey.
 

brachyrynchos

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Managing assets is essential. What assets do we have to give up in a trade and how much will it cost? And would it be enough for this team to win? there isn't much space to work with, I know there's picks, and whatever prospects or players. Who would get moved?
And I'd rather not have home ice, I think this team would benefit from starting on the road.
 
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