Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Canucks 10 PM ET - How Was the West Won?

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maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Call me crazy but i like all this losing. At least there are no misunderstandings this time around. The team sucks. Injuries are no excuse. Teams win cups with more significant injuries. Coaching is abysmal. Goaltending is in playoff form already.
Not sure what to do here but i would definitely fire Trotz and tell him to go get past the second round for the first time in his career somewhere else. Then i would do something that the ownership and management has been refusing to do, hire a coach who won cups as a coach or in the least made in to the finals before.
In Trotzs defence he did win a Calder cup with Baltimore Skipjacks. I don't think he is the problem. I would put it more on the players. It is still early in the season. I'm disappointed in some of our veterans. Some of our young players are coming along. Bowey is improving a bit every game. Stephenson looked good last night. How he did not make the roster at the beginning of the season is beyond me. I think he has a good chance at being our 3rd line center in the near future.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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In Trotzs defence he did win a Calder cup with Baltimore Skipjacks. I don't think he is the problem. I would put it more on the players. It is still early in the season. I'm disappointed in some of our veterans. Some of our young players are coming along. Bowey is improving a bit every game. Stephenson looked good last night. How he did not make the roster at the beginning of the season is beyond me. I think he has a good chance at being our 3rd line center in the near future.

You're saying Trotz is the right coach for this team because he won a Calder Cup in 1994? You do realize he's never advanced past the 2nd round in the NHL playoffs, right?

Also, Stephenson didn't make the team because Trotz cut him. The same Trotz who won a Calder Cup in 1994.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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In Trotzs defence he did win a Calder cup with Baltimore Skipjacks. I don't think he is the problem. I would put it more on the players. It is still early in the season. I'm disappointed in some of our veterans. Some of our young players are coming along. Bowey is improving a bit every game. Stephenson looked good last night. How he did not make the roster at the beginning of the season is beyond me. I think he has a good chance at being our 3rd line center in the near future.

Just like the roster of players, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Trotz has his share of blame, but I’m not sure God could have coached Ovy and company to a Cup honestly....

Can’t make players NOT shit all over themselves....
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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I'm not sure about a total fire sell, but if we bottom out this season that's the price we pay for the all in move.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I'm not sure about a total fire sell, but if we bottom out this season that's the price we pay for the all in move.

I saw a few float the idea before the season that they could miss the playoffs this year, but I don’t think anyone saw this injury thing happening. If they miss they’ll can Barry to suck in the people renewing tickets, they’ll probably rebound and make the playoffs the next year with Ovy and Backstrom’s deals expiring on the horizon and never win a Cup.

The end is definitely looming....
 

Langway

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My last comment is an answer....we shouldn’t expect improvement with a flawed roster, from ANY coach. I’ll add, the most complete roster with a core that is flawed, is a flawed roster.
It stands to reason there's a wide spectrum of possible outcomes with any coaching change. It's certainly not a lock that a change means improvement but one can't deny the possibility. They could just hire another Oates while they're at it and get worse. I wouldn't rule that out. Troy Mann to me would largely be that kind of overwhelmed imitation of a stopgap. The most important thing is the front office and coaching staff being on the same page when it comes to the process and to me it just seems glossed over. It varies widely all of the sudden when this player goes out or this one does and that shouldn't happen. Let's face it, Trotz was spoiled with depth the past two seasons and that also requires an adjustment period on his part. Does he have it in him to crack the whip way more regularly while also being sufficiently patient and development-oriented re: their younger players? When will he risk burning those bridges rather than be tuned out entirely? That time may be rapidly approaching. He's already talked about the frustration of being worse when of course it's no real surprise.

I still go back to MacLellan's 'fact-finding' mission at the end of last season when he apparently found no silver bullet solution and so there's just not much to be done about it all. It's a hell of a mentality to have with a weaker, aging roster coming down the pike. No wonder their focus is so suspect. They've kind of collectively gotten snowed under by their failures over time and IMO it's clearly worn on them. That burden is a collective one that they haven't done enough to navigate around mentally. We can blast the core and they deserve it but it's a collective organizational failure.
 

txpd

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I'm not sure about a total fire sell, but if we bottom out this season that's the price we pay for the all in move.

Going all in is risky by its nature. In the NHL it almost always comes with severe penalties for at least the near future. The hope is that you win and your revenue base thinks losing now is an expected price for winning in the recent past. The Caps just proved that going all in on a complete roster doesn't change them.
 

um

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Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Carlson, Oshie, and Niskanen should still be good in a few years, so a complete fire sale isn't needed.

We don't need to draft/find superstars, we just need supporting players. But than again this new lottery system could be good for us.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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It stands to reason there's a wide spectrum of possible outcomes with any coaching change. It's certainly not a lock that a change means improvement but one can't deny the possibility. They could just hire another Oates while they're at it and get worse. I wouldn't rule that out. Troy Mann to me would largely be that kind of overwhelmed imitation of a stopgap. The most important thing is the front office and coaching staff being on the same page when it comes to the process and to me it just seems glossed over. It varies widely all of the sudden when this player goes out or this one does and that shouldn't happen. Let's face it, Trotz was spoiled with depth the past two seasons and that also requires an adjustment period on his part. Does he have it in him to crack the whip way more regularly while also being sufficiently patient and development-oriented re: their younger players? When will he risk burning those bridges rather than be tuned out entirely? That time may be rapidly approaching. He's already talked about the frustration of being worse when of course it's no real surprise.

I still go back to MacLellan's 'fact-finding' mission at the end of last season when he apparently found no silver bullet solution and so there's just not much to be done about it all. It's a hell of a mentality to have with a weaker, aging roster coming down the pike. No wonder their focus is so suspect. They've kind of collectively gotten snowed under by their failures over time and IMO it's clearly worn on them. That burden is a collective one that they haven't done enough to navigate around mentally. We can blast the core and they deserve it but it's a collective organizational failure.

Of course it’s an collective organizational failure, but it sure feels like Management did almost all they could to field the best roster for multiple runs. It sure feels like The Core doesn’t get blasted near enough (Carlson aside which is fashionable since he’s due a big raise), and instead we see pages upon pages about Trotz and his development deficiencies and lame on-ice tactics.

They’re aging, mentally weak Core and yeah....having a coaching staff on the bubble and a run of bad injury luck doesn’t help at all.

They’ll go down fighting to make the playoffs and pick up the chips in the summer IMO.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Carlson, Oshie, and Niskanen should still be good in a few years, so a complete fire sale isn't needed.

We don't need to draft/find superstars, we just need supporting players. But than again this new lottery system could be good for us.

Correct, and IMO it won’t be a fire sale. Still 3 years of Ovy to pull golden eggs from....only 2 more years of Backstrom.

I wonder if Ted has the chops to trade those two in an effort to rebuild....I don’t think so.
 

Ovie's Neighbor

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Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Carlson, Oshie, and Niskanen should still be good in a few years, so a complete fire sale isn't needed.

We don't need to draft/find superstars, we just need supporting players. But than again this new lottery system could be good for us.
I agree. Pittsburgh was in a similar boat a couple of years ago. But they drafted well and did a good job signing and trading people who were not popular with their current teams. The Caps on the other hand now have a recent history of very bad moves (Forseberg, Shattenkirk, Schmidt). I have lost faith in GMBM and our scouting department. We have no clear identity, something Pittsburgh has.
 

trick9

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Jun 2, 2013
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I was looking at Gudbranson, he actually missed most of last season.. he had surgery on his wrist.. that’s why he doesn’t wanna fight.. and with the score, can’t blame him either

He had no problem fighting a non-heavyweight and keep swinging at him with that same wrist just week ago. He's a spot-picker, and always has been.

Fun fact: The fight that happened week ago was after Gudbranson threw a similar check at Brad Marchand.
 
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Holtbyisms

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Jul 1, 2012
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Kind of wish they would have fired trotz the season before last. How many teams have we watched go on to win cups after coaching changes. Many of which happened mid season. Window is gone now, too little too late.
 

ovikovy817

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I fell asleep when it was 2-0. Glad I did

When I watch the games in the morning, I never check the score before, don't like to be spoiled, I want to be in "live" conditions.
But today, after the 3rd goal, I decided to check the score, because I knew we wouldn't comeback.
 

Brian23

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Dec 3, 2011
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Please be specific. What simple things could Trotz do to keep Orlov from giving the puck away, to wake up Carlson from a multi-year stretch of below par play (for his talent)? You’re mistaking **** execution on ice by players who shouldn’t be in the lineup as bad coaching.

I'm not talking individual mistakes but you really think it's not on Trotz for Carlson's lazy ass play? You know what Carlson gets for taking it easy and playing awful? Rewarded with #1 minutes and just giving more and more reason for someone to give him 7 million in the off-season. You don't reward bad players like Trotz has, you set them straight and develop them which is something Trotz has shown he's incapable of doing.

And here's the thing, you think the rosters bad and I disagree. We've got good players, this is still a quality roster, the issue is they've got no "system" to play that isn't be better then the guy across from them. Think back, who's really come around in a giant way since Trotz got here? Maybe Orlov but I personally think he's still pretty much the same guy he was before Barry rolled in and just got a little more seasoning on him. Burakovsky hasn't developed. Wilson hasn't really developed. Kuznetsov is the same guy he was in the KHL, he's just finally allowed to play top time.

We can bitch and moan how it's the players till the cows come home, but they can both be issues. Just caues Ovechkin isn't the arguable best player in the league anymore doesn't mean Trotz isn't a poor coach for this team.
 

GoCaps2004

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Disagree about carlson being good in a couple years. Dude is trending down, fast. He looks like he weighs a metric ton whenever he tries to skate.

And i really miss mcphees drafting.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I'm not talking individual mistakes but you really think it's not on Trotz for Carlson's lazy ass play? You know what Carlson gets for taking it easy and playing awful? Rewarded with #1 minutes and just giving more and more reason for someone to give him 7 million in the off-season. You don't reward bad players like Trotz has, you set them straight and develop them which is something Trotz has shown he's incapable of doing.

And here's the thing, you think the rosters bad and I disagree. We've got good players, this is still a quality roster, the issue is they've got no "system" to play that isn't be better then the guy across from them. Think back, who's really come around in a giant way since Trotz got here? Maybe Orlov but I personally think he's still pretty much the same guy he was before Barry rolled in and just got a little more seasoning on him. Burakovsky hasn't developed. Wilson hasn't really developed. Kuznetsov is the same guy he was in the KHL, he's just finally allowed to play top time.

We can ***** and moan how it's the players till the cows come home, but they can both be issues. Just caues Ovechkin isn't the arguable best player in the league anymore doesn't mean Trotz isn't a poor coach for this team.

Carlson has had that same dumb and lazy demeanor since he was a rookie learning from Mike Green. Thats’s not on Trotz IMO...the player is what he is.

Carlson gets his ice time because the other options are much worse, but you know that deep down. You’re just joining the pig pile on 74 and Trotz.

I also never said the roster was bad. I’ve thought they were a middle of the playoff pack team since day 1. Who could have foretold this injury issue?

I really don’t have much to comment on Trotz and development. He makes Orlov (with the help of Nisky) into a top pair player, no credit. Wilson has clearly developed, no credit. Hard to take your position serious when you can’t even admit some of the few positives.

I also can’t be the only one who thinks maybe we don’t have the best prospects the last 4 years to have many likely “come around in a giant way” like you’re suggesting.
 

PuckBuddy

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Alexander the Gr8

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I agree. Pittsburgh was in a similar boat a couple of years ago. But they drafted well and did a good job signing and trading people who were not popular with their current teams. The Caps on the other hand now have a recent history of very bad moves (Forseberg, Shattenkirk, Schmidt). I have lost faith in GMBM and our scouting department. We have no clear identity, something Pittsburgh has.

Pittsburgh has two generational players, we have one and he's not even close to being the player he was at his peak. Pittsburgh has an identity but at the end of the day, we can't match their top end skill.
 

MrGone

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Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Carlson, Oshie, and Niskanen should still be good in a few years, so a complete fire sale isn't needed.

We don't need to draft/find superstars, we just need supporting players. But than again this new lottery system could be good for us.

That ship has sailed. We had a window with these player when the contracts were low enough to have some other talent around them. That time is gone. Most of the contracts are up and talent level is closer to worse them better.
 

maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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You're saying Trotz is the right coach for this team because he won a Calder Cup in 1994? You do realize he's never advanced past the 2nd round in the NHL playoffs, right?

Also, Stephenson didn't make the team because Trotz cut him. The same Trotz who won a Calder Cup in 1994.
I'm not saying Trotz is the right coach. I'm saying no coach could win with the lack of effort the players are putting. BTW the decision made at the beginning of the season weren't all Trotz. The GM had a lot to do with the final roster.
 

maacoshark

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Pittsburgh has two generational players, we have one and he's not even close to being the player he was at his peak. Pittsburgh has an identity but at the end of the day, we can't match their top end skill.
Which player are you talking about?
 
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