Post-Game Talk: Caps and Candy Canes

[Hivemind]

They won’t sit Oshie. Don’t be silly. Not if he’s actually healthy.

If he needs a maintenance day, they by all means. But not otherwise. He’s been a huge part of the room and the fabric of the team.....that’s certainly part of why he got that contract. So unless he says to Barry “let me sit for a game, coach”, there is zero chance it happens. Like winning the powerball odds chances.

Team is winning, and Trotz is Trotz.

They won't sit him, but they should. He's been the worse forward on the ice (and the second worst Capital behind Bowey) for the past two weeks.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You let guys like Oshie work through rough patches, especially after returning from a head shot.

 

[Ridley Simon]

They won't sit him, but they should. He's been the worse forward on the ice (and the second worst Capital behind Bowey) for the past two weeks.

No matter what consequence that does to team unity and the room?

"Damn the torpedos", so to speak?

This isn't the playoffs. No imminent elimination games coming. The guy has earned the right to play through it, halfway thru the regular season.

 

[Hivemind]

No matter what consequence that does to team unity and the room?

"Damn the torpedos", so to speak?

This isn't the playoffs. No imminent elimination games coming. The guy has earned the right to play through it, halfway thru the regular season.

You think benching a guy who's struggling would destroy team unity in the room? You think the other players haven't notice that Oshie is playing like garbage? You think the team hasn't noticed that Oshie is getting away with egregious mistakes, the same type that get Burakovsky and others benched?

To reinforce just how terrible Oshie is right now, he had a 29.41% 5v5 CF% tonight. The Capitals only managed to generate five total ES shot attempts while he was on the ice. That's pathetic. And while I don't put much stock in single-game CF% as an evaluation metric, Oshie has been underwater for several straight games at this point.

Oshie is a liability right now. I know we all love our American shootout heroes, but he doesn't deserve to be on the ice for the Capitals right now.

 

[Ridley Simon]

You think benching a guy who's struggling would destroy team unity in the room? You think the other players haven't notice that Oshie is playing like garbage? You think the team hasn't noticed that Oshie is getting away with egregious mistakes, the same type that get Burakovsky and others benched?

To reinforce just how terrible Oshie is right now, he had a 29.41% 5v5 CF% tonight. The Capitals only managed to generate five total ES shot attempts while he was on the ice. That's pathetic. And while I don't put much stock in single-game CF% as an evaluation metric, Oshie has been underwater for several straight games at this point.

Oshie is a liability right now. I know we all love our American shootout heroes, but he doesn't deserve to be on the ice for the Capitals right now.

Yes. I think it would matter. People in all walks of life struggle at times. Doesn't mean you ditch them. Not if they are a tight knit group. It would set a really bad precedent. It would be a huge problem, IMO.

He's a team leader. He's had his bell rung in a cheap shot that got Wilson so riled up he fought Thornton (who hadn't fought in like 4 years or something).

Yes. It would matter. The team is playing well. They are playing for each other.

But Eff all of that. The analytics man. The analytics!!!

Edit -- and I don't mean to get snarky, but....well....look at your response. Snark City, USA. Population 1

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Zero reason to punitively bench a guy like Oshie. He doesn’t need a kick in the ass, he needs to get his head right and recover his game.

 

[Hivemind]

Yes. I think it would matter. People in all walks of life struggle at times. Doesn't mean you ditch them. Not if they are a tight knit group. It would set a really bad precedent. It would be a huge problem, IMO.

He's a team leader. He's had his bell rung in a cheap shot that got Wilson so riled up he fought Thornton (who hadn't fought in like 4 years or something).

Yes. It would matter. The team is playing well. They are playing for each other.

But Eff all of that. The analytics man. The analytics!!!

Reducing my argument to "the analytics" is being intentionally obtuse. I had whole posts on this before that point. If you think this is just some analytics backing this, you haven't been watching. The eye test is absolutely as bad (if not worse) than the analytics. OSHIE SUCKS RIGHT NOW.

Benching a player isn't "ditching" them. You know what else sets a bad precedent? Allowing your stars to get away with poor decision making on the ice. Allowing your stars to commit horrendous turnovers. Allowing your stars to continuously get away with the very things you bench other players for. Obviously your best players get a longer leash, and typically your best players will still be contributing at some level even when they slump. But Oshie isn't contributing at all at this point, and his leash has run out. One measily point in the seven games since he returned from injury. Five game pointless drought. Lazy penalties and dumb turnovers.

What accountability is there if you allow a player not contributing anything to continue making the same type of mistakes that others are benched for? What type of precedent does that set? What type of locker room culture does playing favorites like that create?

Trotz wouldn't let a team leader/star get away with missing a morning skate, why should terrible play with egregious mistakes be any different?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Please provide examples of this favoritism you’re making up. For example what’s a play that got Burky benched and Oshie gets a pass? Mistakes happen to everyone.

Overall I definitely believe in benching as a tool, but not for a guy like this coming off an injury. If the coaching staff believes it’s residual effects and the only option is to play through it, you let him. He’s earned that and you’ve invested heavily in him.

 

[traparatus]

Zero reason to punitively bench a guy like Oshie. He doesn’t need a kick in the ass, he needs to get his head right and recover his game.

You don't want to kick Oshie in the ass right now. He's got his head wedged up there and the poor guy is coming off of a concussion.

I kid, I kid.

 

[Capitals40]

They won't sit him, but they should. He's been the worse forward on the ice (and the second worst Capital behind Bowey) for the past two weeks.

Not tonight..he actually got better as the game went on..the biggest thing I get from him is he is out of shape..looks like he is working himself into game shape.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Reducing my argument to "the analytics" is being intentionally obtuse. I had whole posts on this before that point. If you think this is just some analytics backing this, you haven't been watching. The eye test is absolutely as bad (if not worse) than the analytics. OSHIE SUCKS RIGHT NOW.

Benching a player isn't "ditching" them. You know what else sets a bad precedent? Allowing your stars to get away with poor decision making on the ice. Allowing your stars to commit horrendous turnovers. Allowing your stars to continuously get away with the very things you bench other players for. Obviously your best players get a longer leash, and typically your best players will still be contributing at some level even when they slump. But Oshie isn't contributing at all at this point, and his leash has run out. One measily point in the seven games since he returned from injury. Five game pointless drought. Lazy penalties and dumb turnovers.

What accountability is there if you allow a player not contributing anything to continue making the same type of mistakes that others are benched for? What type of precedent does that set? What type of locker room culture does playing favorites like that create?

Trotz wouldn't let a team leader/star get away with missing a morning skate, why should terrible play with egregious mistakes be any different?

Oh please. The analytics commentary was sarcasm, hence my “snarky” remarks.

You are missing the overall premise, to help bolster your arguments (one that is also irrelevant as it won’t happen,...Oshie won’t get benched....you’re only arguing on ceremony....yet I’m the one being obtuse?).

In Pro Sports, high profile players seldom get benched. Even less so when they are chemistry staples. They only get benched when they show questionable character decisions, or they loaf it. Those are what set bad examples, and what merits a benching.

You, on the other hand, want to bench a guy who has come back from a freaking concussion —of all injuries — because he doesn’t have his timing and decision making back? Gee, I wonder what a head injury would impact most? His timing, and decision making? No WAY!! And by god it’s been a whole 7 games!!! FSMH!!

Sure, sports is callous, most businesses are...but what you are proposing would get laughed at by almost all people that held a position of power to make such a decision. No matter the playing/business field.

Let’s just agree to disagree, this is going nowhere. You are digging your heals in, from my perceptive, to simply not walk away from a bad comment/idea. Which, under the circumstances, is exactly what your idea was....bad.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Just watched the DVR, sloppy as hell but may I just say...Ovechkin is a f***ing hockey god. Keep doubting him young NHL fans, keep doubting him.

 

[Hivemind]

Oshie's dumb penalties and dumb turnovers are equivalent to "loafing it." It's lazy, undisciplined play. It merits a benching. He's not bringing enough (any) of his usual offense to warrant overlooking it at this point.

If you're going to pin his struggles on his concussion, then he definitely needs to be sitting until he's 100% ready.

This isn't about being "callous." This is about setting a quality standard for this franchise. A quality standard that Oshie is not meeting. This isn't the heresy that you claim it is. This wouldn't be "laughed at." This is something that plenty of other NHL teams do, even to respected veterans and NHL stars. The Ducks scratched effing Teemu Selanne. Fan and locker room favorite Joel Ward sat some games last year and this year. Michael Cammalleri was scratched by the Devils last year (despite being alternate captain and one of their leading scorer in the prior two seasons) and the Oilers this year. The Blackhawks are clearly a very successful franchise in the NHL, but haven't had qualms scratching Patrick Sharp and Brian Campbell when they struggled. Highly respected veterans and future hall of famers get benched when they struggle in the NHL (and other sports). It happens.

I'm not suggesting that healthy scratches be the go-to anytime a player has a bad game or slump. Far from it. But Oshie's play is truly miserable right now.

The Capitals were 6-0-0 while "chemistry staple" TJ Oshie was injured. They can function just fine without him. He's not the irreplaceable glue guy as you insinuate. The Capitals will do just fine while giving him time off to fix the issues that are holding him back right now. They only have two games between now a back-to-back next Thursday/Friday, which gives him plenty of time to get truly healthy or work out his issues in practice.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Oshie has to be playing with his concussion. I think he came back too early. Even the stuff that he usually does automatically like shootouts doesn't seem to be easy for him right now.

 

[ovikovy817]

We still want Bowey to learn how to play hockey in the NHL? Fortunately his mistake didn't cost us the game.

Could Joe B get a secondary assist on that Orlov goal?? He was talking about Dima scoring his first goal against Ward, and few seconds later he scores again.

Ovechkin nothing else to say.

ps: I hope Devils fans (and other Caps haters) were watching that 3rd period, while on PP (being down by 1 goal) refs missed a clear too many man on the ice against the Canes. Should have been a 5 on 3 for Caps for 50-55 seconds. Fortunately it didn't cost us the 2 points.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Oshie has to be playing with his concussion. I think he came back too early. Even the stuff that he usually does automatically like shootouts doesn't seem to be easy for him right now.

Yep, I'm not going to get into the should-he-or-shouldn't-he get benched debate, but he 100% looks off. He looks like he's moving in slow motion both in action and in thought.

 

[g00n]

Oshie is a proven veteran with leadership qualities, Bura is not. Defer to experience and, in this case, the likelihood that we don't have the full story. Bura has repeatedly said he struggles with confidence. He needs to work through that somehow. At some point benching will stop working, I suspect.

Oshie does not have to be on the ice to inspire his team or for anyone to see the lasting effects (hence the 6-0 stretch). This can be seen anecdotally in other areas such as SEAL training where effective leaders are swapped with ineffective ones, and there is a period following the swap where the SEALs who had been trained by the superior leaders continued their momentum before cooling off. Of course, eventually the squad performance flips to match the qualities of the leaders, but it's not like an on/off switch for both groups. Inspiration and direction do not vanish the instant the initial source is out of the room, but they may need to be refreshed when things change.

Same likely applies in sports, especially if an injury or suspension wakes a team from slumber or forces them to bear down and play harder.


Ovechkin is a treasure. It's sad that whenever he delivers a vintage performance we have to say "we're going to miss him when he's gone". It means we're getting closer.


Regarding the soft defense, don't go trying to buy a guy to add shut down ability. It's no longer necessary. Just get fast guys and teach them how to obstruct and hold on zone entries. That's what the Pens did. Start learning it now but don't overdo it. Break it out in the playoffs when the refs tolerate the "tight" game more.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Oshie's dumb penalties and dumb turnovers are equivalent to "loafing it." It's lazy, undisciplined play. It merits a benching. He's not bringing enough (any) of his usual offense to warrant overlooking it at this point.

If you're going to pin his struggles on his concussion, then he definitely needs to be sitting until he's 100% ready.

This isn't about being "callous." This is about setting a quality standard for this franchise. A quality standard that Oshie is not meeting. This isn't the heresy that you claim it is. This wouldn't be "laughed at." This is something that plenty of other NHL teams do, even to respected veterans and NHL stars. The Ducks scratched effing Teemu Selanne. Fan and locker room favorite Joel Ward sat some games last year and this year. Michael Cammalleri was scratched by the Devils last year (despite being alternate captain and one of their leading scorer in the prior two seasons) and the Oilers this year. The Blackhawks are clearly a very successful franchise in the NHL, but haven't had qualms scratching Patrick Sharp and Brian Campbell when they struggled. Highly respected veterans and future hall of famers get benched when they struggle in the NHL (and other sports). It happens.

I'm not suggesting that healthy scratches be the go-to anytime a player has a bad game or slump. Far from it. But Oshie's play is truly miserable right now.

The Capitals were 6-0-0 while "chemistry staple" TJ Oshie was injured. They can function just fine without him. He's not the irreplaceable glue guy as you insinuate. The Capitals will do just fine while giving him time off to fix the issues that are holding him back right now. They only have two games between now a back-to-back next Thursday/Friday, which gives him plenty of time to get truly healthy or work out his issues in practice.

You send examples of players that were either small cogs or past their prime (or had had prolonged slumps that were not coming off significant injuries...you are using examples to fit your narrative. Doesn’t mean it’s a good narrative).

Team played well while Oshie was hurt? WTH does that have to do with the message it send to the team in benching one of their warriors who is doing all he can to help? You keep missing the message man. Not sure why, but whatever.

Look, as I stated above. We can simply agree to disagree. Your idea, in my opinion, is a huge mistake. You think it’s a tremendous idea. Fair enough. Why don’t you put a poll on the board and see what others think. Assuming you value other Caps fans opinion. I’m pretty sure it won’t be even close to 50/50.

 

[Chukcha]

a very entertaining game despite some dumb mistakes. Who will sit in the press box next game? Chiasson scored. DSP scored. Beagle and Stephenson got points. Bura again?

 

[ovikovy817]

Btw, could we stop To play in OT? 5 minutes + 5 minutes + 5 +5 ... with long shifts for the leader. At the end of the season (in playoffs) the team need to be "as fresh as possible"

And Carlson played 30:51 yesterday.
Over was the right answer

 

[Langway]

It doesn't have to be play or sit Oshie. Wilson should be playing over him at this point but Trotz seems very focused on balancing out the lines for whatever reason. Maybe because their depth still isn't good enough ultimately. But for now he should be rewarding players that deserve it based on recent play and Wilson does deserve it. Stephenson probably deserves it should he continue to flash his speed and playmaking. The one area where they don't really have that check currently is between Kuznetsov and Eller, with Eller being ice cold offensively and Kuznetsov playing soft/lazy. It'd be way more in their interest to dole out ice-time with production and determination in mind (and not fall back on veteran status or trust as determinative). That way maybe they get more players going at a higher level instead of just holding ice cold players accountable. The team is doing well but individually they could still be a lot better.

 

[Chukcha]

Btw, could we stop To play in OT? 5 minutes + 5 minutes + 5 +5 ... with long shifts for the leader. At the end of the season (in playoffs) the team need to be "as fresh as possible"

And Carlson played 30:51 yesterday.
Over was the right answer

it doesn't work, imo. Last year they tried to save Ovi fresh cutting his ice time for another 2nd round exit. I'm glad this team isn't a regular season powerhouse anymore. I hope they get a PO spot on 3rd of April, not earlier.

 

[maacoshark]

Oshie has to be playing with his concussion. I think he came back too early. Even the stuff that he usually does automatically like shootouts doesn't seem to be easy for him right now.

Maybe they should re evaluate him.

 

[maacoshark]

Recipe for winning in 3-on-3 OT seems to be so simple.

1. Overstay your shift by 30 seconds.
2. Wait until your linemates go for a change.
3. Skate in by yourself and beat goalie with clean shot from very far away.

How come more teams don't employ this simple and effective strategy?

Ovechkin has done that twice this year on 3 on 3. Backstrom who got the assist both times Ovi did that was already on the bench.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Big (and I mean huge), not too mobile but has a nose for the net. I haven't seen him a lot, but that's what stuck out to me.

Oskar Osala?