Post-Game Talk: Capitals @ Maple leafs HNIC 7pm

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AlexBrovechkin8

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Got it. So you contend, and apparently are correct, that this is NOT a good strategy for the Caps to use.

Thank you.

The low-to-high strategy is when they dump in, try to establish the cycle, get the puck to the point, and then try to get bodies to the net to create traffic and try to score via a screen / deflection / rebound. It's a possession-type offense that tends to keep the puck away from the other team, but it generally creates low-quality scoring chances. The thought here is that eventually pucks start to go in after you get enough chances, which as we know, is not always the case. It also stifles a lot of offensive creativity.

Contrast that with playing more north-south or more attacking hockey which puts more pressure on opposing teams, especially if you have team speed. Think the Penguins the last few years where so many of their chances look and feel like high-quality scoring chances, and also the Caps this year when they look threatening. Their speed and skill guys are moving forward in waves creating lanes to make the goalie make difficult saves. Tom Wilson's assist on Ovie's goal against Tampa is a good example.
 
Sep 19, 2008
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Here's the issue with everyone calling for Trotz to be fired. The team is right in the middle of the pack and playing well and had a few bad games and apparently that is enough to trigger a "Fire Trotz" bandwagon. It seems every time the Caps lose people just get upset and say "Screw it fire him". There's no patience anymore with the fanbase and that's sad. You can fire him, just wait until the season ends. Firing him right now is pointless.

That being said, to be germane, the Caps are actually playing well again so it turns out all the crisis was all overblown drama. This team is alright. Not the best, but okay. And people was saying they would miss the playoffs, be real :laugh:
 
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txpd

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The low-to-high strategy is when they dump in, try to establish the cycle, get the puck to the point, and then try to get bodies to the net to create traffic and try to score via a screen / deflection / rebound. It's a possession-type offense that tends to keep the puck away from the other team, but it generally creates low-quality scoring chances. The thought here is that eventually pucks start to go in after you get enough chances, which as we know, is not always the case. It also stifles a lot of offensive creativity.

Contrast that with playing more north-south or more attacking hockey which puts more pressure on opposing teams, especially if you have team speed. Think the Penguins the last few years where so many of their chances look and feel like high-quality scoring chances, and also the Caps this year when they look threatening. Their speed and skill guys are moving forward in waves creating lanes to make the goalie make difficult saves. Tom Wilson's assist on Ovie's goal against Tampa is a good example.

Does the low to high strategy include giving up a an odd man rush to dump the puck in? The Ov goal you mention was a classic 3 on 2 with a little back pressure from a 3rd. Backstrom would never have dumped that puck in.

Maybe that wasn't the example you were looking for. My read on low to high is that its a "half court offense" to keep possession rather than just abandoning transition opportunities
 

g00n

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Here's the issue with everyone calling for Trotz to be fired. The team is right in the middle of the pack and playing well and had a few bad games and apparently that is enough to trigger a "Fire Trotz" bandwagon. It seems every time the Caps lose people just get upset and say "Screw it fire him". There's no patience anymore with the fanbase and that's sad. You can fire him, just wait until the season ends. Firing him right now is pointless.

That being said, to be germane, the Caps are actually playing well again so it turns out all the crisis was all overblown drama. This team is alright. Not the best, but okay. And people was saying they would miss the playoffs, be real :laugh:

You might want to wait before the season is over before coming around attacking people with "told ya so" posts. It's one week. The players in the locker room turned it around. See my post in the fire trotz thread.
 
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You might want to wait before the season is over before coming around attacking people with "told ya so" posts. It's one week. The players in the locker room turned it around. See my post in the fire trotz thread.

And on the other hand people might want to cool it with the FIRE TROTZ after one loss. My whole spiel has been about seeing how the season plays out and basing the decision to retain Trotz on the outcome of 2017-18. It's all about patience and apparently that is in short supply now. People just clamoring for coaches to be fired after one loss, absolutely ridiculous.
 
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twabby

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If their underlying play continues to improve and stay above water then it’s reasonable to reconsider Trotz for the remainder of the season.

The fact is their first 20 games were a disaster in terms of the process. It wasn’t bad luck, it was getting caved in night after night. If that type of play continued he shouldn’t have a job.

Also there is always the looming question of whether Trotz is truly a playoff coach. For a team whose measuring stick is playoff success it still makes sense to consider whether Trotz is the right coach given his inability to win and adjust come playoff time.
 

Ridley Simon

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And on the other hand people might want to cool it with the FIRE TROTZ after one loss. My whole spiel has been about seeing how the season plays out and basing the decision to retain Trotz on the outcome of 2017-18. It's all about patience and apparently that is in short supply now. People just clamoring for coaches to be fired after one loss, absolutely ridiculous.

That's disengenuous. It was a .500 hockey team that created the most noise. 11-10-1 (11 win in 22 games is .500 hockey, no matter what the NHL says). With some of the losses looking really ugly. Listless and careless. With a coach that doesn't have a contract beyond this year...and with his supposed successor right next to him on the bench....a successor that a few people don't believe in.

So a few people (I wasn't one of them mind you, but I understood it) wanted to start that transition now. In case the successor isn't the answer. They wanted to know that THIS YEAR, not NEXT YEAR. If the successor starts next year, Ted won't fire him during the season. Unless it's catastrophic.

Look, sports teams are finite, because time is finite. Ovechkin and Backstrom only have so many seasons left. Some people don't want to waste even another single season. If you can't see that perspective, then you are being just as narrow minded as those you are accusing.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Does the low to high strategy include giving up a an odd man rush to dump the puck in? The Ov goal you mention was a classic 3 on 2 with a little back pressure from a 3rd. Backstrom would never have dumped that puck in.

Maybe that wasn't the example you were looking for. My read on low to high is that its a "half court offense" to keep possession rather than just abandoning transition opportunities

Part of the reason they were able to get that 3-on-2 was because they weren't all packed in from the top of the circles on defense. Not sure if that was a schematic change or not but the Caps rarely venture out past the circles while on defense and it forces them to get hemmed in, which prevents counter-attacking opportunities. Same thing happened with Vrana's goal yesterday. My underlying point is that this team is much better when they're pressing, forcing the issue, and turning defense into offense. They're terrible when they try to sit back and absorb pressure on defense and then cycle for the sake of cycling on offense.
 

g00n

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And on the other hand people might want to cool it with the FIRE TROTZ after one loss. My whole spiel has been about seeing how the season plays out and basing the decision to retain Trotz on the outcome of 2017-18. It's all about patience and apparently that is in short supply now. People just clamoring for coaches to be fired after one loss, absolutely ridiculous.

One loss? Are you intentionally misrepresenting what people are saying? There has been plenty of reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of making a move or standing pat, yet all you can do is climb aboard after a win and accuse people of hysteria.

Nearly everyone who is even talking about the possibility has been discussing it since last season. It's not a knee-jerk reaction to one loss or even a bad stretch. When a coach is in the last year of a deal and when a team is struggling at the holidays there is ALWAYS discussion about a change because that's how the league works. Again, this has been discussed in the very thread you've been crapping on.
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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Not to mention in the NHL midseason coach changes work quite well. The Caps made the playoffs the last 2 times they did it.
When it looks like they are quitters like in did bc Colorado then things must change or jobs are lost
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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One loss? Are you intentionally misrepresenting what people are saying? There has been plenty of reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of making a move or standing pat, yet all you can do is climb aboard after a win and accuse people of hysteria.

Nearly everyone who is even talking about the possibility has been discussing it since last season. It's not a knee-jerk reaction to one loss or even a bad stretch. When a coach is in the last year of a deal and when a team is struggling at the holidays there is ALWAYS discussion about a change because that's how the league works. Again, this has been discussed in the very thread you've been crapping on.

All of this, plus the concern that Trotz has come up short with a much better roster the past few seasons (and has been rather exposed in the playoffs while doing so) so there's the underlying question of can he get this team over the hump with a worse roster?
 

CapsJunkie

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it hard for fans to not want to fire Trotz. this team the last two years was absolutely unbeatable. imo watching the playoffs they were just out coached. we should have been back to back champs. I love the dude but he isn't going to get us a cup
 
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txpd

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All of this, plus the concern that Trotz has come up short with a much better roster the past few seasons (and has been rather exposed in the playoffs while doing so) so there's the underlying question of can he get this team over the hump with a worse roster?

Trotz problem isn't systems. He seems to coach a team thru a season as if its one project rather than 82 plus post. So, I can see giving losses and awkward play early as part of the program.

His problem is that he is coaching the Capitals as if they are any other NHL team and that the weight they carry from playoff failures is a real weight that they carry. He blows it off and that is his biggest mistake. They are not any other NHL team. Ask Justin Williams
 

maacoshark

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Here's the issue with everyone calling for Trotz to be fired. The team is right in the middle of the pack and playing well and had a few bad games and apparently that is enough to trigger a "Fire Trotz" bandwagon. It seems every time the Caps lose people just get upset and say "Screw it fire him". There's no patience anymore with the fanbase and that's sad. You can fire him, just wait until the season ends. Firing him right now is pointless.

That being said, to be germane, the Caps are actually playing well again so it turns out all the crisis was all overblown drama. This team is alright. Not the best, but okay. And people was saying they would miss the playoffs, be real :laugh:
I'm not on the fire Trotz bandwagon at all. I think Trotz is doing well under the circumstances. A couple of key injuries and quite a few new faces. The coaching has been fine.
 

maacoshark

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Trotz problem isn't systems. He seems to coach a team thru a season as if its one project rather than 82 plus post. So, I can see giving losses and awkward play early as part of the program.

His problem is that he is coaching the Capitals as if they are any other NHL team and that the weight they carry from playoff failures is a real weight that they carry. He blows it off and that is his biggest mistake. They are not any other NHL team. Ask Justin Williams
Why ask Justin Williams he isn't here. And I don't think Williams is the leader everyone made him out to be.
 

maacoshark

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All of this, plus the concern that Trotz has come up short with a much better roster the past few seasons (and has been rather exposed in the playoffs while doing so) so there's the underlying question of can he get this team over the hump with a worse roster?
Has anyone ever considered that our playoff failures were more about personnel than coaching. I never thought we had the personnel to win in the playoffs. And what did we add? Shattenkirk. That was not what we needed.
 

twabby

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There are plenty of reasons to suggest Trotz has been a poor playoff coach.

1. Benching Schmidt for the first few games of the Toronto series in favor of a gimpy Alzner
2. Not recognizing that Orlov and Niskanen was the team’s best defensive option against the Leafs until Game 4
3. Playing 7D in the playoffs which consisted of having Orpik and Alzner on the ice for periods of time (and giving up a backbreaking goal)
4. Failing to reach the third round not only in Washington, but in Nashville with completely different personnel including a few pretty good teams on paper
5. Choosing to play Mike Weber and Taylor Chorney in 2016 instead of Orlov or Schmidt
6. Not being able to successfully solve the Penguins’ counter-attacking style in 2017 until Game 3.

Probably a few other things I’m missing, including implementing the low-to-high which IMO isn’t nearly as effective in the postseason due to defenders being much more willing to block shots from the point in the playoffs.

It’s perfectly fair to be disappointed in the players as well but Trotz has been far from good in the playoffs.
 

Ridley Simon

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Has anyone ever considered that our playoff failures were more about personnel than coaching. I never thought we had the personnel to win in the playoffs. And what did we add? Shattenkirk. That was not what we needed.

My memory is foggy...were you this down on the Shattenkirk trade at the time it was finalized? Or before the playoffs started?

Or is this a clear cut case of your hindsight vision being 20/20?
 

IafrateOvie34

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Has anyone ever considered that our playoff failures were more about personnel than coaching. I never thought we had the personnel to win in the playoffs. And what did we add? Shattenkirk. That was not what we needed.

Yes, over the years many have pointed out to the players, especially after Game 7 flops, particularly being shutout. Imo, there are no available coach options that I believe will lead the team to the SC. Trotz is the best option we have at this moment and as others have pointed out, the organization can opt not to renew him. The players are responsible for their destiny with hard work and determination, not coasting when points are on the line like with some of the games this year. At this point, the coach is not the issue. The past few years are the best rosters this team could muster for a contending team. Prior to that we all wished they would have some sort of magic and pull off a miracle considering the defense we had. Currently, the guys have put up a good win streak against good teams this past week and getting healthy. If they have 8-2 losses once fully healthy then to me it's the same old heart question of the players. Until then, I'm going to be optimistic and hope they stay healthy. We're getting into the good part of the hockey season so we'll all find out.

As for Shattenkirk, I don't like him, however I did like the fact the Caps were willing to make a splash for a big player and not settle for Joe Sacco types. Folks will scream to high heaven, but I like the fact how GMBM stepped in and did some changes considering the legacy of GMGM. Additionally, I cannot blame coaches for 6.6 seconds penalties or disallowed SC playoff goals. If not for Stepan, this team might have been in the SCF in 2015 which is the furthest this core has been in the playoffs. Others will highly disagree with me, but I believe if this team is healthy they can beat any team in this league, especially EC teams. Having said all this, time is eventually going to kick in and we have this and next year to make noise. Oh, while I'm at it I liked Dale Hunter as coach and hated to see him leave.

Go Caps!
 
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maacoshark

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You might want to wait before the season is over before coming around attacking people with "told ya so" posts. It's one week. The players in the locker room turned it around. See my post in the fire trotz thread.
I didn't see the guy attack anyone. I agree with him that the fans are jumping allover Trotz when the team loses. I think he is doing well with what he has to work with. I see this team improving as the season goes on. If we start failing miserably then a move might have to be made but for now I would leave things alone
 

maacoshark

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My memory is foggy...were you this down on the Shattenkirk trade at the time it was finalized? Or before the playoffs started?

Or is this a clear cut case of your hindsight vision being 20/20?
Wasnt on this site when that trade was made but I'll be honest I was very pissed off when I heard the rumors that the Caps were going after Shattenkirk. That was a few days before the trade was actually made. Ive never like Shattenkirk game. Obviously the Blues weren't either. They were in a playoff run themselves so if Shattenkirk was that good they would have kept him for there run. BTW the blues have been a very good team since they made that deal. Didn't hurt them at all. Infact they have improved.
 
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Alexander the Gr8

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I didn't see the guy attack anyone. I agree with him that the fans are jumping allover Trotz when the team loses. I think he is doing well with what he has to work with. I see this team improving as the season goes on. If we start failing miserably then a move might have to be made but for now I would leave things alone

We have to make a move regardless of our play to remain cap compliant. We have to put at least Ness and Connolly on waivers. If we could even trade Connolly, that would be better.
 
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Dream Big

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There are plenty of reasons to suggest Trotz has been a poor playoff coach.

1. Benching Schmidt for the first few games of the Toronto series in favor of a gimpy Alzner Caps won game 1 and lost game 2 in the 5th period. Probably because Alzner was injured earlier in the game.
2. Not recognizing that Orlov and Niskanen was the team’s best defensive option against the Leafs until Game 4 Alzner was injured and not playing. They had no other choice.
3. Playing 7D in the playoffs which consisted of having Orpik and Alzner on the ice for periods of time (and giving up a backbreaking goal) Alzner returns in game 3 which Caps win after being down 2 game to 0. Agree playing 7 d wasn't the best solution in games 4-7.
4. Failing to reach the third round not only in Washington, but in Nashville with completely different personnel including a few pretty good teams on paper
5. Choosing to play Mike Weber and Taylor Chorney in 2016 instead of Orlov or Schmidt
6. Not being able to successfully solve the Penguins’ counter-attacking style in 2017 until Game 3. Alzner returns.

Probably a few other things I’m missing, including implementing the low-to-high which IMO isn’t nearly as effective in the postseason due to defenders being much more willing to block shots from the point in the playoffs.

It’s perfectly fair to be disappointed in the players as well but Trotz has been far from good in the playoffs.

twabby again with the Alzner hate. sigh...

I do agree that the playoffs vs the Penguins should have gone differently.

Trotz should have brought Alzner back sooner, so as not to lose the first 2 games in a row. Hole dug.

Alzner returned in game 3 and they win.

Then playing him less and less.

Alzner was the glue

Possession #'s don't always tell the whole story.
 

maacoshark

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There are plenty of reasons to suggest Trotz has been a poor playoff coach.

1. Benching Schmidt for the first few games of the Toronto series in favor of a gimpy Alzner
2. Not recognizing that Orlov and Niskanen was the team’s best defensive option against the Leafs until Game 4
3. Playing 7D in the playoffs which consisted of having Orpik and Alzner on the ice for periods of time (and giving up a backbreaking goal)
4. Failing to reach the third round not only in Washington, but in Nashville with completely different personnel including a few pretty good teams on paper
5. Choosing to play Mike Weber and Taylor Chorney in 2016 instead of Orlov or Schmidt
6. Not being able to successfully solve the Penguins’ counter-attacking style in 2017 until Game 3.

Probably a few other things I’m missing, including implementing the low-to-high which IMO isn’t nearly as effective in the postseason due to defenders being much more willing to block shots from the point in the playoffs.

It’s perfectly fair to be disappointed in the players as well but Trotz has been far from good in the playoffs.
Most of those points are just your personal opinion. You have no clue if things would have been different if different decisions were made. I disagree with some of the decisions Trotz made too. But that doesn't mean I'm right. Have the Caps really been that bad in the playoffs the past couple seasons. We lost both years to the eventual Stanley cup champions. Neither series was a blowout. We just came up a bit short and I think if we got by the Pens that we would have hoisted the cup. I still feel we also added the wrong piece at the trade deadline. We didn't need an offense only defence man.
 

maacoshark

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We have to make a move regardless of our play to remain cap compliant. We have to put at least Ness and Connolly on waivers. If we could even trade Connolly, that would be better.
I meant moving a major player or a coaching change. I know we have to put some guys on waivers to make cap room. Hope its Connolly
 
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