Cap Confusion
- Thread starter HobeyBroten
- Start date
- Aug 9, 2011
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Quick maths says the difference in projected cap space matches the difference in projected LTIR used.
So presumably it's because Carey Price is on LTIR
So presumably it's because Carey Price is on LTIR
HobeyBroten
Registered User
Going by LTIR + current Cap:
Canadiens - $93,494,912 + $0 cap space
Wild - $86,463,354 + $9,000 cap space
Again, I'm probably missing something, but can't figure it out...
Canadiens - $93,494,912 + $0 cap space
Wild - $86,463,354 + $9,000 cap space
Again, I'm probably missing something, but can't figure it out...
Current cap space depends on the sum of daily cap accruals. If you aren’t at the cap limit or using LTIR to stay below the limit, you gain cap space into the future. This is how the Wild ended up having the space at last seasons deadline to take on salary retention like ROR. The Sabres accumulated an absurd $80MM in space last season that they left unused.
I think this may be your confusion? Apologies if you were already aware of this.
I think this may be your confusion? Apologies if you were already aware of this.
HobeyBroten
Registered User
I was not aware of this. Thanks for the explanation. Naturally as a MN sports fan, I feel like we're always getting the shortest straw.
Sure thing, it can get extremely complicated to track current cap space with all of the different paper moves that teams do, sending players with two way contracts to “the minors” on off days so they only cost their minor league cap hit is an example of teams stretching the limits for space. Even Cap friendly is not always accurate all the time with this, they are not NHL affiliated, though generally very good.
- Aug 9, 2011
- 3,058
- 1,978
I meant projected cap hit - projected LTIR used (+ projected cap space)
Montreal:
$89,179,709 - $5,679,709 = $83,500,000
Minnesota:
$84,976,743 - $1,486,611 + $9,868 = $83,500,000
BagHead
Registered User
This is going off on a tangent, but from an employee standpoint, that practice seems super sketchy. How would anyone enjoy it if they got promoted to manager and got the pay raise associated with it, but on Fridays they were "demoted" on paper and paid the lower salary, even though they were still a manager, so their company could save some money? Not well I'd wager, but in hockey it's "The Business of the Game".
This is why many of them fight so hard for one ways, Mennell went as far as bailing to Russia rather than sign a two way. Is it kinda scummy? Yeah. Are they still getting paid more than the typical citizen to practice a sport on those days? Also yeah.
- Aug 9, 2011
- 3,058
- 1,978
I'm not 100% on this, but aren't they paid based on games played? So if they're sent down on off days and called back up for the game, they don't actually lose any NHL salary.
BagHead
Registered User
We're on the same page, but I do want to balance their making more than the average citizen with two facts. 1) Their careers are somewhere between 1/5th and 1/10th the length of the regular citizen, and 2) when they're getting screwed in this manner, they're earning ~1/10th of what they are owed, which is an insane downgrade in pay, where the average citizen would be earning something like 7/10ths, and would totally complain and be within their rights to do so.
If that's the case I'll retract my statement completely. Would be good to know, and I'd feel much better about the practice.
Spurgeon
Registered User
Their pay is determined based on a daily schedule, not game-by-game so players do get screwed when these paper transactions occur.
HobeyBroten
Registered User
Appreciate the dialogue everyone.
On a personal level, I'd still take their 1/10 pay over my 10/10 pay with my current job! LOL
On a personal level, I'd still take their 1/10 pay over my 10/10 pay with my current job! LOL
Not really. Look at where we started this year. We couldn’t call anyone up. We didn’t paper transaction Rossi or Faber. Russo even wrote an article on it that the Wild organization didn’t want to jerk these kids around because they have to show that they are on their way to Iowa.
It’s more like getting a temporary bump in pay to do the manager’s job while they are out sick/injured. The ones that are “legit” managers don’t get jerked around by their organization.
Covid obviously caused some issues the last few years to cause smaller rosters. That will iron out with the cap going up.
BagHead
Registered User
I think this depends on their situation. Are they practicing with the big team or the little team? If they're with the NHL club, it's a demotion, but if they're with Iowa, it's a promotion. If they're practicing with the NHL club, they're literally doing the NHL job, and should be paid as though they are.
They can’t practice with the NHL team if the paper transaction says they are in the minors. You cannot paper transaction someone to the minors and still have them practice. If they are practicing with the NHL team, then they are getting NHL money those days. If the paper transaction shows they are in the minors, they have to physically show proof that the player is on their way to the AHL team.
Spurgeon
Registered User
Where in the CBA does it state this? From what I remember, all that’s required is that they have to make the travel arrangements within 2 days of the transaction.
It's really not that hard to show them gassing up their car and heading south. MN doesn't really practice, so that isn't much of an issue either. Or send them on the owners jet the hour to Iowa and have them ride right back. It's like a 2 hour total round trip. Also waivers doesn't take effect until like noon or 1 pm. Practice in the morning, "send them down" and then recall them for the next day. They might miss the morning skate on game (recall) day, but those aren't important. This really only works for home games and is why it only happens then.
I this Russo is wrong on this, because owners aren't going to give a competitive advantage to the teams with their AHL team close by. All TOR has to do is send their paper waivers guy across town. Compared to a team like Tampa who has their AHL team in Syracuse NY.
The new way around paper waivers is to just go the emergency loan route. It might cost them a game playing a guy short, but that happens organically already in NHL games (injury or match penalty).
I this Russo is wrong on this, because owners aren't going to give a competitive advantage to the teams with their AHL team close by. All TOR has to do is send their paper waivers guy across town. Compared to a team like Tampa who has their AHL team in Syracuse NY.
The new way around paper waivers is to just go the emergency loan route. It might cost them a game playing a guy short, but that happens organically already in NHL games (injury or match penalty).
