GDT: Canucks 3 @ Broons 6 | 19th Oct

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,535
83,870
Vancouver, BC
I am very intrigued. Why is he in your top 5 least liked canucks?

Making a terrible trade for this overpaid Andrew Alberts equivalent and then watching him get overplayed (while better players are scratched) and fawned over by media like he's a star player while he carries himself like a star and talks down to teammates is nauseating. Everything about him just rubs me the wrong way.

I'd rather be watching Sbisa because at least Sbisa was a really likeable guy I could cheer for and embrace as a Canuck, even if he stunk.

Sorry for criticizing Our Guddy. ;)
 

Eddy Punch Clock

Jack Adams 2028
Jun 13, 2007
13,126
1,823
Chillbillyville
I am very intrigued. Why is he in your top 5 least liked canucks?

Not trying to speak for MS but I'm sure how bad the trade looks (more so every day) and his previous cocky remarks (too late/lazy to provide a link but I'm sure it's common knowledge around here.) don't help. It's also frustrating seeing a guy of his size not playing like it. There is also the faint stink of expectations still lingering from being a third overall pick... although thats almost completely faded away now. And when we first got him there was this fear of just how big his raise was going to be. (although I think thats a moot point now... Benning already tried to return him so I doubt he re-signs here)

Salary is a big thing when it comes to expectation. Example... Dorsett would be so much more liked and respected for what he brings if he were paid half as much... right where he should be.
 

EpochLink

Canucks and Jets fan
Aug 1, 2006
59,817
15,489
Vancouver, BC
That Gudbranson penalty was stupid, looks like he’s going to a hearing and be fine/suspended.

Yesh, this team can salave against Buffalo and Detroit.
 

HelloCookie

Registered User
Nov 23, 2016
415
507
Finland
I watch a Canucks' east coast game every now and then during the week when I know that the next day at work won't be a bad one. It's kind of special and nice thing to do. This time it was so special that I might get drunk on November 3rd, go watch Sport hosting TPS and shout Sergachev's and McAvoy's stats at Juolevi.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
25,369
10,309
Couldn't disagree more. And I'm one of the loudest complainers about the 'clean open ice hit but the shoulder hit the head a bit so it's a suspension' BS.

Checking a guy from behind into the boards is the most dangerous play in hockey. That play has been a major for 20 years. Vatrano didn't turn into it - Gudbranson had plenty of time to hold up and pin him against the boards and instead exploded through him face-first into the glass. Completely correct call.

The non-instigator in Schaller, on the other hand ...

The open ice hit is only part of it though. We need to keep clean board hits in the game as well. Fishing around behind the net for a puck in hockey has been one of the most dangerous plays since...basically as soon as the forward pass was allowed. Putzing around with the puck in your feet behind the opposing net is a dangerous area. Extremely dangerous. That's what makes it rewarding.

He actually looks up, assesses that there's a guy coming...and turns back using his back to shield the puck there. That's garbage hockey.

Maybe i'm just a dinosaur, but back in my day, i was taught that you keep your f***ing head up in dangerous areas like that. If you see a guy coming...it's decision time. a)You bail out and lose possession. b)you have enough possession to actually turn back with the puck and slip the hit, c)you square up and take a hit to make a play. c)you actually have the slipperiness to grab that puck and slip past a check.

If all it takes to maintain possession behind the net is, "oh look here's my numbers"...we might as well be playing a dimwitted on-ice version of soccer.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
23,043
6,636
It's impressive how they keep turning over large chunks of the roster in the offseason and yet this team looks exactly the same. Can't transition the puck, disorganized on the blue line, and bad on special teams. Just another year in Canucksville.
 
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Eddy Punch Clock

Jack Adams 2028
Jun 13, 2007
13,126
1,823
Chillbillyville
It's impressive how they keep turning over large chunks of the roster in the offseason and yet this team looks exactly the same. Can't transition the puck, disorganized on the blue line, and bad on special teams. Just another year in Canucksville.

Wasting a year again in Vancouverville
Searching for a team with better results
Some people say that there's a coach here to blame
But I know...
It's all Jim's fault
 

orcatown

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
10,261
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Visit site
Clumsy play by Gudbranson that might get a suspension. But the subsequent collapse is on the PK and goaltending. Five minute majors happen and a team has to be able to survive these situations. Can't just say "well we got a 5 minute major so the game is over."

Some of the criticisms of Gudbranson are over the top. Fans seeking out a whipping boy have found one. To date Gudbranson has played tolerably well and defense has not really been the issue with this team.

The problem is clearly the offense (and at times goal tending). When rookie Boeser (maybe with Horvat) is your leading forward you don't have to go far to determine where the problem is. The Sedins have been awful ( a lot worst than someone like Gudbranson). Baerschi, Granlund, Virtanen, Gagner are providing nothing. Dorsett and Sutter are basically checkers. Moreover, many of these players (particularly the Sedins) are not adequate in their own zone.

Saying Gudbranson or any particular player is the root cause of the problem is not only simplistic but also unfair.

And MS it is strange that after so many blistering attacks on Sbisa (some declaring he was useless even before he got here) and leading the charge in continually ridiculing this player, you now say you found him 'likeable' and hugely better than Gudbranson. That is revision at its best. People should review your past posts on Sbisa.

On Dorsett. Give the guy some credit. When I see the Canucks not only lose but have their face rubbed in it, I have to admire the way Dorsett stands in and fights for his team mates. Outside of Gudbranson the team has no one push back when someone like Stecher or Tanev is getting run every shift (and how long is it till they are hurt). Fixing blame on Dorsett, when he is actually scoring better than almost anyone else and is trying to protect his team, seems mindless to me.

Some fans don't seem understand that the game is physical and team will run you out of the building if you don't fight back. I see incredibility naive and silly proposals like let's get Rodin to play instead of Dorsett, let's get Subban to play for Gudbranson. Like let's try to get even smaller and have no one to stand up to the beating other teams will lay on us. Like we will just finesse the other team with all the talent we have. How can people not understand this is absurd???

If you want to fix blame, why not stick with where the blame lies. We have terrible management that have made horrible mistakes in their trades, in many of their drafts (and Keller was super tonight) and in their contracts. Yes we can vent our anger at some scapegoats but this team is product not of the players but lamebrains Linden and Benning. Until they are gone we can fume away at certain players or one another but nothing much is going to change.
 

Addison Rae

Registered User
Jun 2, 2009
58,532
10,753
Vancouver
It's impressive how they keep turning over large chunks of the roster in the offseason and yet this team looks exactly the same. Can't transition the puck, disorganized on the blue line, and bad on special teams. Just another year in Canucksville.
It's infuriating that they aren't using this season as a "development year" for prospects, guys like Goldobin, Rodin and Virtanen should be getting minutes, instead they wasted valuable cap space and roster spots on slow, uneventful soft tweeners like Gagner, Eriksson and Vanek.
 
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Ryp37

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
7,525
1,081
To be fair to MS I've seen him mention Sbisa being a likeable person before

And orca does bring up a good point, I hate watching Gudbranson force a puck up the boards instead of reversing to his partner but this team is softer than grandmas Christmas cards.
 
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Megaterio Llamas

el rey del mambo
Oct 29, 2011
11,220
5,929
North Shore
The open ice hit is only part of it though. We need to keep clean board hits in the game as well. Fishing around behind the net for a puck in hockey has been one of the most dangerous plays since...basically as soon as the forward pass was allowed. Putzing around with the puck in your feet behind the opposing net is a dangerous area. Extremely dangerous. That's what makes it rewarding.

He actually looks up, assesses that there's a guy coming...and turns back using his back to shield the puck there. That's garbage hockey.

Maybe i'm just a dinosaur, but back in my day, i was taught that you keep your ****ing head up in dangerous areas like that. If you see a guy coming...it's decision time. a)You bail out and lose possession. b)you have enough possession to actually turn back with the puck and slip the hit, c)you square up and take a hit to make a play. c)you actually have the slipperiness to grab that puck and slip past a check.

If all it takes to maintain possession behind the net is, "oh look here's my numbers"...we might as well be playing a dimwitted on-ice version of soccer.
I agree. I was happy to see Gudbranson fill that guy in. I don't like this 'nana na nana na you can't touch me my back is turned' for five seconds behind the net stuff. Wall paper him.
 
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JuniorNelson

Registered User
Jan 21, 2010
8,631
320
E.Vancouver
Gudbranson was trying too hard when he made that hit. Canucks have yet to get rolling and some guys want to be the spark.

Green should reassess his roster. Benning, too. Canucks looked better in preseason.

Canucks still need a goalie to emerge. They should ride Markstrom to see if he can be a number one. He hasn't been before. I have doubts about now. AHL is not a super reliable indicator about what a goalie does in the NHL. Knowing they have no proven starter all Summer is an indictment of this management group. You can't just anoint a guy and hope he can rise to the occasion. It isn't fair to anybody. It is further proof Linden is dumb as poo.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,535
83,870
Vancouver, BC
And MS it is strange that after so many blistering attacks on Sbisa (some declaring he was useless even before he got here) and leading the charge in continually ridiculing this player, you now say you found him 'likeable' and hugely better than Gudbranson. That is revision at its best. People should review your past posts on Sbisa.

I've said numerous times when Sbisa was still here that I found him to be a likable person and the player I'd most like to have a beer with on the team. Make no mistake, he was a lousy player and I don't want him back, and absolutely DID NOT say he was 'hugely better than Gudbranson'. But if I had to watch a bad player trundling around out there and constantly being stuck in his own zone, I'd rather watch a player that I at least liked as a person.

As for Gudbranson, he's a competent #6-7 defender. He's had some games this year where he's been decent, but they're usually of the bend-but-not-break type where he's on his back foot defending 70% of the time. He's basically Andrew Alberts. And if he was paid/treated/carried himself like that kind of player, I wouldn't have a problem with him to nearly the extent. I'll fully admit that my distaste with this player goes beyond his actual playing ability.

That interview last year when he was playing terribly and threw Hutton under the bus, essentially saying, "I'm playing great and anything I'm doing that looks bad is only because my partner is bad and putting me in bad positions. But he's young so it makes sense he sucks! Maybe when he's played 300 games he'll be a terrific defender like me!' still rankles me so much. This is a player who should be fighting for his life every night to stay in the team's regular 6 defenders.
 

m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
25,107
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No NFL team (that has a lot more money riding on their season than any NHL team) would even consider having those three I listed as 3/53. Imagine if somehow you had 53 players like that on a team. I bet they actually wouldn't even finish the season.

The Cincinnati Bengals CURRENT roster includes:

Joe Mixon - Videotaped knocking a girl out cold
Adam Jones - A non-stop list of arrests, including being involved in shootings, fights.. pretty much anything you can name.
Jeremy Hill - Raped a girl in college & has other assaults on his record.

And that's just off the top of my head so there's probably some other guys filtered in there. Not a bad 3/53.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,535
83,870
Vancouver, BC
The open ice hit is only part of it though. We need to keep clean board hits in the game as well. Fishing around behind the net for a puck in hockey has been one of the most dangerous plays since...basically as soon as the forward pass was allowed. Putzing around with the puck in your feet behind the opposing net is a dangerous area. Extremely dangerous. That's what makes it rewarding.

He actually looks up, assesses that there's a guy coming...and turns back using his back to shield the puck there. That's garbage hockey.

Maybe i'm just a dinosaur, but back in my day, i was taught that you keep your ****ing head up in dangerous areas like that. If you see a guy coming...it's decision time. a)You bail out and lose possession. b)you have enough possession to actually turn back with the puck and slip the hit, c)you square up and take a hit to make a play. c)you actually have the slipperiness to grab that puck and slip past a check.

If all it takes to maintain possession behind the net is, "oh look here's my numbers"...we might as well be playing a dimwitted on-ice version of soccer.

The notion that we should blame a skill player for trying to be shifty near the boards to create offense because some neanderthal defender won't be able to help himself from smashing him face-first into the boards is absurd to me. So is the notion that if a player sees a defender coming (who is still pretty far away) that player should just be honour-bound to skate into that player and get smashed instead of turning to try and make a better play.

And that wasn't a case of the guy turning into it. Gudbranson had tons of time to assess the situation, guide Vatrano into the glass and pin him there to win a puck battle. Instead he exploded upward through the numbers to the point where he left his feet. It was an incredibly reckless, stupid play.

Again, hits from behind into the boards are the most dangerous play in hockey. You're taught from the age of 10 NOT TO DO IT and to err on the side of caution.

The penalty was completely, 100% correct and that's been called the same way since the mid-1990s. Given that it was early in the game and ended up costing the team the game, I don't think a suspension is really necessary ... but then I really couldn't argue if he was given 1-2 games, either.
 
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m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
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I've said numerous times when Sbisa was still here that I found him to be a likable person and the player I'd most like to have a beer with on the team. Make no mistake, he was a lousy player and I don't want him back, and absolutely DID NOT say he was 'hugely better than Gudbranson'. But if I had to watch a bad player trundling around out there and constantly being stuck in his own zone, I'd rather watch a player that I at least liked as a person.

As for Gudbranson, he's a competent #6-7 defender. He's had some games this year where he's been decent, but they're usually of the bend-but-not-break type where he's on his back foot defending 70% of the time. He's basically Andrew Alberts. And if he was paid/treated/carried himself like that kind of player, I wouldn't have a problem with him to nearly the extent. I'll fully admit that my distaste with this player goes beyond his actual playing ability.

That interview last year when he was playing terribly and threw Hutton under the bus, essentially saying, "I'm playing great and anything I'm doing that looks bad is only because my partner is bad and putting me in bad positions. But he's young so it makes sense he sucks! Maybe when he's played 300 games he'll be a terrific defender like me!' still rankles me so much. This is a player who should be fighting for his life every night to stay in the team's regular 6 defenders.

But that's not at all what he said, and you're letting your bias show with how you interpreted his comments. You (like many others on this board at the time) took one part of an article and tried to simplify what he said to suit your narrative.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...anson-disconnection-needs-immediate-attention

I don't really about Gudbranson either way - he's a depth guy that the team overpaid for. I also agree it was a dumb penalty yesterday. I really hate how the NHL has evolved with guys turning their back, but that wasn't the case last night.

Hutton & Gudbranson are 3rd pairing guys being forced into heavier minutes that they can't handle, and people here really need to take a step back on both of these players. I don't think that they are being overextended in terms of role is their fault, it's management/coaching fault.
 

m9

m9
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Jan 23, 2010
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Also, time to give some credit to Derek Dorsett.

You know why he got this long, stupid contract? Well, partly because of the GM. But also because for his first season here, he showed up on about a dozen nights where NOBODY else on the team showed up. The entire roster mailed it in, and Dorsett actually looked like he cared. Now, he hasn't been that guy since that season but so far since this year he's been that guy again. Maybe he's playing too much, but I'm not going to blame Travis Green when you have a bunch of guys sleepwalking through the game and you have one guy who actually puts in the effort.
 

rune74

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
9,228
552
I've said numerous times when Sbisa was still here that I found him to be a likable person and the player I'd most like to have a beer with on the team. Make no mistake, he was a lousy player and I don't want him back, and absolutely DID NOT say he was 'hugely better than Gudbranson'. But if I had to watch a bad player trundling around out there and constantly being stuck in his own zone, I'd rather watch a player that I at least liked as a person.

As for Gudbranson, he's a competent #6-7 defender. He's had some games this year where he's been decent, but they're usually of the bend-but-not-break type where he's on his back foot defending 70% of the time. He's basically Andrew Alberts. And if he was paid/treated/carried himself like that kind of player, I wouldn't have a problem with him to nearly the extent. I'll fully admit that my distaste with this player goes beyond his actual playing ability.

That interview last year when he was playing terribly and threw Hutton under the bus, essentially saying, "I'm playing great and anything I'm doing that looks bad is only because my partner is bad and putting me in bad positions. But he's young so it makes sense he sucks! Maybe when he's played 300 games he'll be a terrific defender like me!' still rankles me so much. This is a player who should be fighting for his life every night to stay in the team's regular 6 defenders.

Boy that was a spin to make his comment out much worse then it was. If you were truly impartial(which you haven't been in a very long time) you would have used the actual quote.

“If I’m chasing out of position to make a play, there has been a breakdown somewhere at some point,” said Gudbranson. “We’re going to watch video and see what’s going on and this is a process with a young guy. He (Hutton) has less than 100 games and it takes 300 to learn to defend well."

It wasn't a great comment but it wasn't the line you used at all.

I had to search a bit to find this, there is a lot more good comments about Hutton by him then there are bad....this quoted line being the worst and even then it wasn't the way you wrote it.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,535
83,870
Vancouver, BC
But that's not at all what he said, and you're letting your bias show with how you interpreted his comments. You (like many others on this board at the time) took one part of an article and tried to simplify what he said to suit your narrative.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...anson-disconnection-needs-immediate-attention

I don't really about Gudbranson either way - he's a depth guy that the team overpaid for. I also agree it was a dumb penalty yesterday. I really hate how the NHL has evolved with guys turning their back, but that wasn't the case last night.

Hutton & Gudbranson are 3rd pairing guys being forced into heavier minutes that they can't handle, and people here really need to take a step back on both of these players. I don't think that they are being overextended in terms of role is their fault, it's management/coaching fault.

Boy that was a spin to make his comment out much worse then it was. If you were truly impartial(which you haven't been in a very long time) you would have used the actual quote.

“If I’m chasing out of position to make a play, there has been a breakdown somewhere at some point,” said Gudbranson. “We’re going to watch video and see what’s going on and this is a process with a young guy. He (Hutton) has less than 100 games and it takes 300 to learn to defend well."

It wasn't a great comment but it wasn't the line you used at all.

I had to search a bit to find this, there is a lot more good comments about Hutton by him then there are bad....this quoted line being the worst and even then it wasn't the way you wrote it.

Obviously I'm paraphrasing negatively to make a point. But that's basically what he said.

The pairing was struggling and Gudbranson was the bigger problem of the two (and indeed, as soon as he got hurt, Hutton magically became good again). All he has to do is own it, or at worse give a banal cliche hockey-talk response.

Instead, he argues that he's not making mistakes and he's 'only out of position because someone else made a mistake' completely not owning any of the struggles of the pairing. Then he points out that Hutton might 'defend well' after 300 games, pretty clearly implying that he thinks he defends well because he's played that many games.

Yeah, he gives some lip service to Hutton being a good player eventually. But the gist of the interview is that he thinks he's playing great and not the problem, and that Hutton is the problem. Completely threw a teammate under the bus. And every time I see him interviewed, I feel that same reek of arrogance off him.

And that's the thing that pisses me off most about Gudbranson and Sutter - both are below-average players who were once top-10 picks and have been treated/played/paid like foundational players for years even though they're marginal guys who should be fighting to stay in lineups, and carry themselves like they're stars when in fact they're amongst the biggest problems on the team. It's one thing to watch a losing team. It's another thing to watch a losing team where some of the worst players think they're really great and continue to have wads of icetime shoved undeservedly down their throats by the coach while better players without their 'pedigree' watch from the bench or pressbox.
 

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