Canes in the money

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Bobby Orr, Nov 5, 2006.

  1. Bobby Orr

    Bobby Orr Guest

    via Kukla/TN&O:

    RALEIGH - In each of the past 12 years, Peter Karmanos would sit down at the end of the hockey season with his checkbook open. The Carolina Hurricanes owner would make out a check to cover the annual cash shortfall of his National Hockey League team, often a figure that reached into eight digits.

    Winning the Stanley Cup last June didn't just put a smile on Karmanos' face. It put money in his pocket. After losses exceeding $145 million since he moved the team here from Hartford, Conn., in 1997, the Hurricanes turned a profit of about $10 million last season.


    http://www.newsobserver.com/796/story/506256.html
     
  2. Tekneek

    Tekneek Registered User

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    Being in the black is a good thing, but that is a shameful way of doing business. $145 million flushed down the toilet and you have to win the Cup to post a $10 million profit on a season? Think of the run they would have to go on to make back that other $135 million. Of course, they were helped a lot by the new CBA, I suppose. ;)
     
  3. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

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    good to hear the canes made a profit. with the doom and gloom attendance figures of some other franchises this is good news for the nhl.
     
  4. puckhead103*

    puckhead103* Guest

    i wonder if karmonos would make a profit if he relocated to winnipeg with a 15,000 seat with 60 luxury boxes?
     
  5. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

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    why ? are you thinking of buying the team and moving there ?
     
  6. DeputyDan

    DeputyDan Registered User

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    If Winnipeg deserved a team - they would have one !

    Loser whinning!!!
     
  7. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

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    hahaha.
     
  8. Northern Dancer

    Northern Dancer The future ain't what it used to be.

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    And that is the problem (or irony) with the NHL, most teams have to make it to the final four to show a profit. The new CBA has created cost certainity but it has also resulted in revenue uncertainity. There is a lot of teams flirting with the cap (44 million), that pre the new CBA had pay-rolls of 35 million. The need to make the play-offs is greater now than before. (that is not necessarily a bad thing) however some of the weaker sisters in the NHL are in for a shock going forward.
     
  9. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    boo hoo -

    google karmanos - jacobs - and wirtz
     
  10. Northern Dancer

    Northern Dancer The future ain't what it used to be.

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    And that is the problem with the economics of the NHL, if you do not have an owner with very deep pockets you will eventually go broke. And the trouble with a lot of franchises is that they are lacking deep pockets.
     
  11. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    or new money like cuban -

    i was just boo hooing karmanos's losses - i bet if you dug around you find the figure's in the park but somehow skewed - remember he got the arena in carolina for free -

    jacob's and wirtz have colourful background's as well
     
  12. Northern Dancer

    Northern Dancer The future ain't what it used to be.

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    I hear ya, thank God our contribution to insane owners harold ballard (he does not deserve caps) is long gone however if you believe in recarnation he may now be Mr. Wang on Long Island !!!
     
  13. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    ya ballard - the 200 extra seat's etc...
     
  14. tacoma

    tacoma Registered User

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    Wow, all the Hurricanes need to to is win the next 13 Stanley Cups and Karmanos will break even. What a great investment!
     
  15. Street Hawk

    Street Hawk Registered User

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    So..

    Can't feel sorry for a guy since, it was his decision to break the lease with Hartford, which cost him well into the 8 figures, not to mention selecting Greensboro as the team's temporary home for 2 years, where his team played before crowds of 4 figures most nights.

    He got a new arena in Raleigh, but still, even getting to the finals in 2002, crowds were still subpar.
     
  16. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    do some homework - the guy asked for it
     
  17. tacoma

    tacoma Registered User

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    For sure, I hope the next time an owner wants to move a franchise he takes a good look at the Karmanos situation.
     
  18. MoMiester

    MoMiester Registered User

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    Why would they do that ? Have over 68 boxes in the RBC, the corpoate community to back it up at over $150K a box, a corporate Championship Box (which the Peg will never have) that draws in over $2M in tickets into the Canes not including sponsorship), have 18,730 seats and way above the corporate sponsorship that the Peg could ever hope to offer.

    No way.
     
  19. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Registered User

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    dont recall that being the case at all. if memory serves, thats a lie. the crowds were huge for the canes during that run, and their season tickets blew up because of it.

    the rest of it, of course, is dead on.
     
  20. MoMiester

    MoMiester Registered User

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    Remember, some of those losses are in Hartford and others are to put in money toward the building of the RBC. But the biggest is that I do not think thes numbers include the other company he owns that runs the arena which is a seperate company. I do not thing that all the money they make off the arena is covered in the Carolina Hurricanes numbers like concessions, parking, ads in the arena, etc. I think if Karmonos was writing a check to the Canes, he was writing it out of the account that he owns that runs the arena into the Carolina Hurricanes account.

    Besides, it is all political. He will never say he makes great money due to all the anti-taxers in Raleigh. They are against the hotel amd meals tax that built the arena and the minute the Canes do well, they will want to raise the rent, keep upgrades to the RBC at a minimal, etc, etc.
     
  21. MoMiester

    MoMiester Registered User

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    All they have to do is sell beer, parking, ads, etc....and maintain the arena operations as half of the revenues are not in this number. Not to mention the losses he would have suffered had he stayed in Hartford where they would never reach the attendence numbers they have reached in Raleigh.
     
  22. Northern Dancer

    Northern Dancer The future ain't what it used to be.

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    Aw the ol' three card monte, let's hide the massive profits, the owners are liars, etc, etc, story rears it's very ugly head again !!!!

    It really makes me laugh when I see this nonsense. Do you really think the 30 NHL owners locked out the players for a YEAR because they were all secretly making all sorts of money with creative accounting ??? What would be the point of that ?????
    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  23. jamiebez

    jamiebez Registered User

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    Assume sarcasm on the part of original poster.
     
  24. mr gib

    mr gib Registered User

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    not all of them - just a few -
     
  25. Northern Dancer

    Northern Dancer The future ain't what it used to be.

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    Like who ?
     

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