Canada wants to host WJC every 3 years. Good/bad?

[koivu_11]

That's a pretty big assumption on your part and I don't think it is even close to be true. In no country will everybody who wants to go actually go...

Although I agree that no other country can come close to the attendence Canada puts up.

That makes no sense. Why wouldn't they be able to go? The games aren't being sold out, if they want to go then all they have to do is buy a ticket. Only difference in Canada is that it'll be sold out so there won't be tickets to buy. So you can't really say they won't be able to go in other countries cause they are able to go, obviously since there were seats available...

 

[Kenadyan]

It makes it not fair!!!!!!!!

Are you calling a "NOT FAIR"? What are we, in second grade? C'mon people look at this from a logical standpoint. The way people on this forum are reacting, you would think Canada was trying to get the tournament every year.

Keeping in mind that Canada is the second largest land mass in the world, let's look at a "hypothetical" schedule of having it in Canada every three years (no, this is NOT the actual schedule, just a hyptothetical example - I am not sure where it is scheduled to be the next few years).

2006 - Vancouver
2007 - Turin (taking advantage of the momentum from the Olympics)
2008 - Vienna
2009 - Hamilton/Toronto
2010 - Moscow
2011 - Stockholm
2012 - Winnipeg
2013 - Prague
2014 - St. Petersburg (Russia, not Florida)
2015 - Halifax
2016 - Minneapolis/St. Paul

How unfair would this really be? Keep in mind that Vancouver, Winnipeg, and Hamilton are thousands of miles apart from each other. The WJC would be benificial to the economy of each of these cities (as it would be for the cities of Vienna, Moscow, Stockholm, etc. when they host the tournament).

Meaning, having the WJC in Vancouver doesn't really benefit the city of Hamilton economically in any way, and vice versa. Granted, the country gets behind Team Canada no matter where the tournament is played, but for that I go back to my point about Canada being the second largest land mass in the world.

Instead of worrying about what country the WJC's are being playing in, I think it should be looked at more from a city by city standpoint. And if that means that playing the tournament in Canada every three years makes it more proiftable from the IIHF viewpiont, then so be it.

 

[RorschachWJK]

It wouldn't necessarily be like a home tournament for Canada. Grand Forks is close to a major Canadian city.

Anyway, this way Canada ends up getting the tournament every 6 years, and it's clear the IIHF wouldn't accept that.

There is also the option of organizing the tournament every four years in Canada, plus those in the US. This is a pretty good compromise in my opinion.

 

[junglebeast]

Makes sense. In other countries the crowd depends on whether the home team is playing. That makes sense but in Canada the tournament is spoiled. Canadians want to see their team play but they also love hockey. We just want to see the game. We'll go watch SWE v FIN, CZE v SLO, etc where in other countries where no home team is playing it's hard to manage a decent crowd. So I see no problem with bringing the tournament to Canada more often than other places. It doesnt mean we love our team more than other countries, we can just provide more revenue. If they need to do it, do it.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Are you calling a "NOT FAIR"? What are we, in second grade? C'mon people look at this from a logical standpoint. The way people on this forum are reacting, you would think Canada was trying to get the tournament every year.

Keeping in mind that Canada is the second largest land mass in the world, let's look at a "hypothetical" schedule of having it in Canada every three years (no, this is NOT the actual schedule, just a hyptothetical example - I am not sure where it is scheduled to be the next few years).

2006 - Vancouver
2007 - Turin (taking advantage of the momentum from the Olympics)
2008 - Vienna
2009 - Hamilton/Toronto
2010 - Moscow
2011 - Stockholm
2012 - Winnipeg
2013 - Prague
2014 - St. Petersburg (Russia, not Florida)
2015 - Halifax
2016 - Minneapolis/St. Paul

How unfair would this really be? Keep in mind that Vancouver, Winnipeg, and Hamilton are thousands of miles apart from each other. The WJC would be benificial to the economy of each of these cities (as it would be for the cities of Vienna, Moscow, Stockholm, etc. when they host the tournament).

Meaning, having the WJC in Vancouver doesn't really benefit the city of Hamilton economically in any way, and vice versa. Granted, the country gets behind Team Canada no matter where the tournament is played, but for that I go back to my point about Canada being the second largest land mass in the world.

Instead of worrying about what country the WJC's are being playing in, I think it should be looked at more from a city by city standpoint. And if that means that playing the tournament in Canada every three years makes it more proiftable from the IIHF viewpiont, then so be it.

When they are held in Europe there is travel involved as well. Besides, international tournaments are about countries, not about cities. That must be the starting point, IMHO.

Also, in this hypothetical example countries like Finland, Slovakia, Norway and Switzerland wouldn't get to have the games even once during the 11 year strech. This is exactly my point. Fair? Excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

 

[Seachd]

There is also the option of organizing the tournament every four years in Canada, plus those in the US. This is a pretty good compromise in my opinion.

That's how it is now. Obviously Canadian Hockey thinks it deserves more, and I agree.

 

[The Rage]

Canada should shut up. They don't own the sport like they think. There is no benifit to having it in Canada all the time.

First of all, it's not all the time, it's every three years. Second of all, maybe if other countries actually supported the tournament, this wouldn't come up. Hell, the question should be whether Canada should hold the tounrament all the time. The other countries can't even turn a profit. Ridiculous.

 

[discostu]

I haven't had time to read every post in this thread, and I imagine that anything that I say has already been said dozens of times so far, but so be it, it needs to be re-stated.

This tournament is just not much of a draw outside of Canada. It only draws a lot of fans when it is in Canada, or when a lot of Canadians have access to it (i.e. Northern U.S.)

I say the 3 year cycle is a GREAT thing. A hockey tournament as great as this should not be sparsely attended. There are so many cities within Canada that are clamouring to host it, that a 3 year cycle is not at risk of diluting the impact of this tournament domestically.

Plus, it's only a 3 year cycle. Two-thirds of the tourneys will still be held internationally. That provides plenty of opportunities for other countries to hold the tournament. If those tournaments prove to be a smashing success as well, then I have no problem with re-visiting the 3 year cycle decision, and put Canada back in the mix on equal footing, but as of right now, only one country can guarantee that the tournament will be a success.

 

[jekoh]

So I see no problem with bringing the tournament to Canada more often than other places.

That's already the case.

It doesnt mean we love our team more than other countries, we can just provide more revenue. If they need to do it, do it.

With this reasoning it's ok to juste invite the top six countries to the Olympics instead of having them qualify (and risking that one of them will not), as they're likely to generate more revenue. Oh wait, that's what they did.

 

[GoM]

I'm telling you, hockey in Canada is like the NHL, it's all about the money. Nobody even really cares about the game, but just the BUCKS!!! $$$

Holy bullsh*t, batman

 

[Legolas]

Quite simply we all have to realize what the ultimate purpose of the tournament is...is it to develop the game or is it to make money? Or, is it some balance between the two? We don't decide that...the IIHF does, and it's clear that money is important to them.

You may not agree with that, but that's the way it is...we all, to varying degrees, want the sport of hockey improved and the popularity of the game spread...I love it when international teams play here in Canada and when Canada plays overseas...I love seeing international prospects for my favourite NHL team for the first team and seeing their development, or getting to see a player like Ovechkin for the first time...I really don't care whether the tournament is in Canada often or not...even if it is in Canada every 3 years, it's guaranteed that it won't be in a city that I can get to everytime...Toronto will only host it once in every 3, 6, or 9 year cycle, if that...so for my own viewing purposes, whether it's in Vancouver or Helsinki or Belarus, it's all the same to me...the difference of course being that I'll wake up and watch the games live no matter what, and other fans in other countries may not or may not be able to...I would prefer if the tournament went to freaking Africa if it meant the game became more popular...but if no one (relatively) is there to watch it, and the tournament just loses money anyway, then is that helping development or hurting it?

Now, if the IIHF is considering holding the tournament more often in Canada because they want to make money and keep the profits, then I would be against that...if they want to make more money and use it for the good of the game by spreading it out among the member associations, then why wouldn't you want it in Canada more often so there's more money for everyone? I don't know enough about how the profits from the WJC's are spread out so I can't comment further...but I know the host nation makes money because Hockey Canada always makes a lot of money when we host the tournament, and USA hockey made money this year...and I don't blame Hockey Canada for wanting the tournament more often, especially when it's clear that Canada supports the tournament more than anyone else...if the profit sharing is such (if it exists at all) that holding the tournament in Canada actually helps other countries more financially than if they hosted it themselves, I can't see how having it more often in Canada is a bad idea.

I suspect though that this is probably more a cash grab by the IIHF than anything else and therefore the tournament should continue to be spread out as it is now...money will still be made whenever the tournament is in Canada, and it will still get to other non-traditional countries, which is an important consideration, like it or not...

 

[koivu_11]

Quite simply we all have to realize what the ultimate purpose of the tournament is...is it to develop the game or is it to make money? Or, is it some balance between the two? We don't decide that...the IIHF does, and it's clear that money is important to them.

You may not agree with that, but that's the way it is...we all, to varying degrees, want the sport of hockey improved and the popularity of the game spread...I love it when international teams play here in Canada and when Canada plays overseas...I love seeing international prospects for my favourite NHL team for the first team and seeing their development, or getting to see a player like Ovechkin for the first time...I really don't care whether the tournament is in Canada often or not...even if it is in Canada every 3 years, it's guaranteed that it won't be in a city that I can get to everytime...Toronto will only host it once in every 3, 6, or 9 year cycle, if that...so for my own viewing purposes, whether it's in Vancouver or Helsinki or Belarus, it's all the same to me...the difference of course being that I'll wake up and watch the games live no matter what, and other fans in other countries may not or may not be able to...I would prefer if the tournament went to freaking Africa if it meant the game became more popular...but if no one (relatively) is there to watch it, and the tournament just loses money anyway, then is that helping development or hurting it?

Now, if the IIHF is considering holding the tournament more often in Canada because they want to make money and keep the profits, then I would be against that...if they want to make more money and use it for the good of the game by spreading it out among the member associations, then why wouldn't you want it in Canada more often so there's more money for everyone? I don't know enough about how the profits from the WJC's are spread out so I can't comment further...but I know the host nation makes money because Hockey Canada always makes a lot of money when we host the tournament, and USA hockey made money this year...and I don't blame Hockey Canada for wanting the tournament more often, especially when it's clear that Canada supports the tournament more than anyone else...if the profit sharing is such (if it exists at all) that holding the tournament in Canada actually helps other countries more financially than if they hosted it themselves, I can't see how having it more often in Canada is a bad idea.

I suspect though that this is probably more a cash grab by the IIHF than anything else and therefore the tournament should continue to be spread out as it is now...money will still be made whenever the tournament is in Canada, and it will still get to other non-traditional countries, which is an important consideration, like it or not...

Cash grab by the IIHF? Hockey Canada is the one who is making the suggestion for coming back to Canada every 3 years, not the IIHF. And even if the WJC is not for making money, but it is for 'developing the game', which I assume you mean getting more fans to watch hockey or young people to play hockey, then I think that is another reason to put it in Canada more often then in other countries. For example you have the games in Finland, who is going to go and watch the games? Hardcore hockey fans, and people that want to see Finlands young prospects, and also of course you'll get a few people to watch who probably don't have much interest in hockey before the tournament but like hockey after. You have the tournament in Candada, and same thing happens, but to a greater extent. Tons of media coverage here so everyone know every year when the WJC are, even if you're a big hockey fan or not a hockey fan at all. So many people will go to the games and watch the games at primetime (not middle of the night) that it will get so much exposure in Canada that new people will like the game and watch it. More young kids will want to play hockey. Yes that would happen in any country but moreso in Canada. Example you have the WJC in Finland and hockey gets 1000 new fans, you have it in Canada you will probably get 10000 new people watching it. This year with it being in the US, and primetime on TV in Canada, I know lots of people/coworkers who were watching the games, and they weren't even hockey fans and hardly watch the NHL. So if the WJC is there to develop the game and get more fans, I think that is just another reason to have it in Canada more often. If you want to get more fans from other countries then I don't think doing it with the juniors is the way to go. People who don't follow the sport will probably want to go to see the big names in the NHL, not the unheard of names that are in the WJC (unheard of to most people, not us of course).

 

[TORRUS]

Man, the recent international succes totally affected your thinking!

I'm not talking about fans and making money, all I'm saying is that it would be an immediate advatage for team Canada! And that is not right for an IIHF tournament! Nevermind the statistics about succes on home ice! The statistics doesn't matter. We all know that team Canada plays well in front of their own crowd.

 

[koivu_11]

Man, the recent international succes totally affected your thinking!

I'm not talking about fans and making money, all I'm saying is that it would be an immediate advatage for team Canada! And that is not right for an IIHF tournament! Nevermind the statistics about succes on home ice! The statistics doesn't matter. We all know that team Canada plays well in front of their own crowd.

In most games Canada plays well in front of their own crowd, but not all.
In most games Canada plays well in front of a different countries crowd, but not all.

I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

 

[mackdogs*]

Man, the recent international succes totally affected your thinking!

I'm not talking about fans and making money, all I'm saying is that it would be an immediate advatage for team Canada! And that is not right for an IIHF tournament! Nevermind the statistics about succes on home ice! The statistics doesn't matter. We all know that team Canada plays well in front of their own crowd.

Team Canada plays well regardless, you should really make a valid point or stop this discussion. You're completely ignoring all the valid arguments. The main point here is that Canada feels that they have earned the right to host this tournament more often and I have yet to read one point to the contrary. IMO they should ask the players where they want to play. I'll betcha lots and lotsa money that they much prefer playing in front of a noisy and crazy full building, even if the majority are cheering against them. Seriously, do you think these kids enjoy playing in half empty buildings? I think it has an adverse effect on both the players and people watching. Who wants to watch a sport with empty stands? To people new to hockey this will be an automatic turnoff. It's like a crowded restaurant vs. an empty one. No one goes into an empty restaurant!
The recent tourney shows these players what it would be like to play in the NHL, well moreso in the playoffs when the buildings go bananas. I'd love to see players from all teams polled, I bet at least 33% (1 out of 3) prefer when it is in Canada.

 

[Panopticon]

Since the Canadians care so much that they show the games on TV anyway, why should that be a reason the have the games over there?

When games are in Canada, only Canadians and probably Americans will see them.
When games are in Europe, pretty much everyone except maybe the Americans will see them.

 

[mackdogs*]

Since the Canadians care so much that they show the games on TV anyway, why should that be a reason the have the games over there?

When games are in Canada, only Canadians and probably Americans will see them.
When games are in Europe, pretty much everyone except maybe the Americans will see them.

Because of the profit that comes with the tourney being in Canada. Try reading the thread before responding to it next time.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Because of the profit that comes with the tourney being in Canada. Try reading the thread before responding to it next time.

The proposal comes from Hockey Canada, not the IIHF. So, the IIHF doesn't seem overtly interested in profits as they would have made the proposal if that was the case. Hockey Canada is interested. But why should anybody else care much about the profit that Hockey Canada makes, unless there is a way that the junior hockey organizations in the minor countries get a good share of the profits?

 

[Seachd]

Since the Canadians care so much that they show the games on TV anyway, why should that be a reason the have the games over there?

That brings us back to the original point. If Canada cares more about the tournament than anyone else, why should it be held against them? If they're the only ones who bother to televize, is that a bad thing?

Maybe other countries should start showing the slightest interest.

 

[Legolas]

The proposal comes from Hockey Canada, not the IIHF. So, the IIHF doesn't seem overtly interested in profits as they would have made the proposal if that was the case. Hockey Canada is interested. But why should anybody else care much about the profit that Hockey Canada makes, unless there is a way that the junior hockey organizations in the minor countries get a good share of the profits?

Again, I don't have complete information on any revenue/profit sharing model and I haven't heard of anything from anyone else here, but I think it's pretty naive to think that the IIHF does not care about profit either...like I said before...there's a balance between making money and development...if the IIHF was a purely non-profit organization, Canada would only host the tournament once ever 10 years...and if the IIHF brought any proposal to Hockey Canada, the other national organizations would go absolutely nuts.

And I also don't think it's a negative thing that Hockey Canada is pushing for the tournament to be in Canada more often...that's their prerogative as an organization, they're trying to ensure that the funds paid by Canadians is re-invested through the tournament into hockey in Canada and I see nothing wrong with that...ultimately the decision must be made by the IIHF to ensure that future tournaments are handled in a manner that ensures the IIHF's objectives, and not just Canada's, are realized...

 

[dawgbone]

Since the Canadians care so much that they show the games on TV anyway, why should that be a reason the have the games over there?

When games are in Canada, only Canadians and probably Americans will see them.
When games are in Europe, pretty much everyone except maybe the Americans will see them.

The thing is, the # of Canadians who will watch the games, and go to the games is greater than all of the European ones.

Think of it this way:

Say Canada plays Finland... and the game is at 3:00 am in Finland. You are going to lose a big chunk of your audience correct? But if it is at 3:00am in Finland, that's prime time in Canada, where you are going to have 2+ million viewers.

Conversely, if it's on in Finland at 2:00 pm, that's 6:00am in Canada, and you won't get 2 million viewers. Now... you may get some viewers in Finland, but not nearly enough to make up for what you are losing in Canada.

Like it or not, it's about money. Like it or not, you need money to develop high end hockey programs.

Having the WJC in Canada is literally a license to print money... why wouldn't the IIHF go to a place where they are guaranteed to make a tonne of dough every 3 years?

To be honest, you don't matter... not to be a dink, but you really don't. You don't matter because your fellow country-men don't care. If they cared about it, and supported it anywhere close to how Canada does, they'd get it more often, and this would be a moot point.

 

[dawgbone]

The proposal comes from Hockey Canada, not the IIHF. So, the IIHF doesn't seem overtly interested in profits as they would have made the proposal if that was the case. Hockey Canada is interested. But why should anybody else care much about the profit that Hockey Canada makes, unless there is a way that the junior hockey organizations in the minor countries get a good share of the profits?

Let's put it this way... the IIHF takes a certain amount of guaranteed money out. I beleive it was something like $800k from this tournament in North Dakota. Now, whatever money is left has to cover expenses... if there is more money than expenses, the host makes money. If there is less, the host loses money.

Either way, the IIHF takes their pre-determined cut of guaranteed money, irregardless of how much, or how little the tournament actually made.

You never know... there could be an influx of Euro countries who don't want to host the tournament because of the potential loss of money... we don't know.

 

[jekoh]

IMO they should ask the players where they want to play. I'll betcha lots and lotsa money that they much prefer playing in front of a noisy and crazy full building, even if the majority are cheering against them.
The recent tourney shows these players what it would be like to play in the NHL,

NHL arenas may be full but they're not exactly noisy and crazy. Silent and quiet would be a more accurate description.

 

[London Knights]

You know how you build up a sport, you allow countries that may not be world powers to experience the top level of hockey first hand. Not just send a team to get annihilated, but to allow minor coaches and players to come to the tournament and watch the action, pick up on things to make them better players.

Would the tournament make money every year in Canada, absolutely, but that doesn't mean that giving it to Canada every year is the best route to take. The tournament is about showcasing the best junior talent on the planet essentially giving NHL scouts/GM's the ability to view their top prospect(s) in action against the other top competition of their generation.

As for NHL arenas being noisy and crazy, when games matter they can get quite noisy and crazy, but during the regular season there are a lot of sedated crowds. And if you aren't in Canada, or you aren't playing the host country, you most likely play in front of less than half-filled arenas anyway.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Ok. Lets have the WJC every three years in Canada. On a span of 20 years, that means Canada gets it seven times (years 1,4,7,10,13,16,19). Add two years for the USA, and you have pretty darn close to half the tournaments in North America. That doesn't leave too many chances for the rest of the countries now does it?

Hell, why not every two years, like Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson would like it! Lets profit some more.

This is all good and fine, as long as people don't complain about blowouts against unworthy opponents or hockey remaining a minority sport, because those things are quite possibly not going to change in this scenario, at least not for the better.